Post by: Kain on May 05, 2009, 04:40:50 PM
Post by: JBar on May 05, 2009, 04:48:02 PM
Post by: boneaddict on May 05, 2009, 04:49:35 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on May 05, 2009, 04:51:20 PM
Post by: saylean on May 05, 2009, 04:52:09 PM
I'd still take a spike.
Post by: deaddog on May 05, 2009, 04:54:15 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on May 05, 2009, 04:55:44 PM
Post by: huntnphool on May 05, 2009, 04:57:35 PM
Post by: Kain on May 05, 2009, 04:58:59 PM
Post by: Diehard0123 on May 05, 2009, 04:59:07 PM
Post by: alecvg on May 05, 2009, 04:59:25 PM
Post by: bowhunterforever on May 05, 2009, 05:15:46 PM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on May 05, 2009, 05:54:32 PM
Post by: bucklucky on May 05, 2009, 06:31:20 PM
Post by: Red Dawg on May 05, 2009, 06:44:04 PM
Post by: PolarBear on May 05, 2009, 06:46:29 PM
That aint a real deer, it's cattle! I'll pass on that one!
Post by: M_ray on May 05, 2009, 06:48:57 PM
Post by: Buckrub on May 05, 2009, 06:50:56 PM
Post by: PolarBear on May 05, 2009, 06:51:44 PM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on May 05, 2009, 06:59:40 PM
Post by: Red Dawg on May 05, 2009, 07:02:37 PM
Post by: huntnphool on May 05, 2009, 07:06:06 PM
Doesn't it seem hypocritical if we think this is wrong yet we are ok with our turkeys being grown like this, our pigs, cows being pumped full of steroids and live similar lives. So we value the life of this one deer and forget the others? I guess out of sight, out of mind?
The difference is this deer is being raised for its antlers only, whether its for a caged hunt or for its sheds at auction. That is what I have a hard time with.
Post by: popeshawnpaul on May 05, 2009, 07:12:27 PM
I hate high fenced and don't want to hunt animals like these either. Are we upset at how the animal is treated and being grown or that he may be hunted some day?
Post by: MuleySniper on May 05, 2009, 07:16:59 PM
Ya you watch, someone will pay to have that buck released somewhere so he can shoot it and try to claim it as a legit hunt. >:(
Kind of like the "spider bull"?? :chuckle:
MS
Post by: Kain on May 05, 2009, 07:20:20 PM
Whether it's being raised for its antlers or meat, it's being treated essentiallyt he same. Ever seen geese being fed for foie gras? Ever seen veal in cages so they can't move? At least this guy gets to run around a pasture and breed some ladies.
I hate high fenced and don't want to hunt animals like these either. Are we upset at how the animal is treated and being grown or that he may be hunted some day?
Both situations make me sick. I dont like all the crap being pumped into our livestock no matter what species it is. That is one of the main reasons for hunting. Doesnt get more organic than wild game. There are some good local ranchers that keep their animals clean. We should do what we can to support them when we can. Im not saying I dont eat fast food and at restaurants but I try to limit it for me and my family.
Post by: huntnphool on May 05, 2009, 07:23:04 PM
Quote
Are we upset at how the animal is treated and being grown or that he may be hunted some day?
Can't speak for everyone but my posts should make it perfectly clear what upsets me.
Post by: Red Dawg on May 05, 2009, 07:25:17 PM
Post by: WABONEHNTR on May 05, 2009, 07:56:04 PM
Ya you watch, someone will pay to have that buck released somewhere so he can shoot it and try to claim it as a legit hunt. >:(
Kind of like the "spider bull"?? :chuckle:
MS
:yeah:
I think the same thing. No one will ever make me think different. That bull is like none ever killed. I think he is from canada.
Post by: furbearer365 on May 05, 2009, 08:17:45 PM
Post by: couesbitten on May 05, 2009, 08:49:59 PM
Post by: M_ray on May 05, 2009, 08:57:03 PM
Doesn't it seem hypocritical if we think this is wrong yet we are ok with our turkeys being grown like this, our pigs, cows being pumped full of steroids and live similar lives. So we value the life of this one deer and forget the others? I guess out of sight, out of mind?
I'm not sure who you were referring to but personally I have never said I am OK with -
Quote
our turkeys being grown like this, our pigs, cows being pumped full of steroids and live similar lives.in fact I side on the organics & natural most the time and I have had many an argument with anti's about this very subject. I started hunting because the meat is organic and clean, I have a milk man come to my house so my girls have had RbsT free milk since they started drinking it!!!
For me what I meant most is that unlike the other animals you have compared this Deer to I still look at them as farmed animals and NOT game animals as the animals we pursue for sport. I don't want the so called Game animals farmed so some guy with more money than skill can pay to shoot it!!! :twocents: I would like to see more of a difference between the two.
Post by: Pathfinder101 on May 05, 2009, 10:40:36 PM
Yawn, I was duped into watching that. I feel soiled.
:yeah: I feel dirty...
Post by: bearpaw on May 06, 2009, 10:21:18 AM
I read your messages posted concerning the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMgREetgDbQ about a huge buck being raised in a Wisconsin deer farming operation. It sounds unanimous, most everyone commenting agreed that it is pretty darn disgusting that deer are being raised in fences and worse yet, they are being hunted within a fence. It’s just hard to imagine that a real hunter or fisher would do such a terrible unsporting thing……..I am sure that many of us will advocate through game laws or legislation to stop such disgusting activities as soon as we get a chance……
I am sure that most of us would much rather hunt for “wild free-ranging” pheasants, sheep, turkey, elk, deer, ducks, and geese, or go fishing for trout, salmon or walleye all of which are far more sporting activities than hunting on a game ranch???
Now please let me be clear, I am not trying to disrespect anyone’s opinion; I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I would like to offer a few thoughts and some perspective for all hunters and fishers to carefully consider.
First
If anyone shows a photo or displays the rack of the farm raised deer in the video, it will be immediately recognized due to it's extreme size and characteristics. If there is ever any question of the origin of any buck, any elk, or any other trophy, genetic testing is commonplace and can easily determine the geographic origination of any animal. Wildlife agencies use genetic testing to prove poaching cases all the time and record keeping clubs can use testing to determine if an animal is from wild stock. This pen-raised buck can only be entered in the Records as an Estate Taken Animal, and that is all it can possibly ever be, it would be disqualified from any wild record books.
Second
The video is a commercial ad made to promote Biologic which is a legitimate brand of crop seed consisting of peas, beans, clover, alfalfa, etc. The buck is part of a private deer herd where selective breeding and other conditions have been controlled to promote maximum horn growth. The video does a good job of showing what can be accomplished with excellent nutrition and a good environment for horn growth.
Third
The fact that ideal conditions created such a huge rack excites me and proves that more records will be broken by wild bucks and bulls in the future when the conditions are right. It also verifies why the bucks are so big in places like Iowa, Illinois, Kansas, Ohio, Saskatchewan, and Indiana where large fields of crops (basically huge food plots) or in Texas where deer feeders provide deer with excellent nutrition. It also shows why so many large elk are taken in the southwest where winters are short, feed is high in protein, and hunter opportunity is limited by permit-only hunting to allow animals to attain older ages.
Fourth
I guess it is possible that the buck in the video may have been given steroids, but I know several deer and elk breeders and none of the ones I know use steroids. Their animals grow big because of controlled selective breeding, year around feeding, no starvation periods in the winter, and no predators chasing them to exhaustion. Plus many game ranch animals are not harvested until they attain adult age; so they have a chance to grow to their optimum size. Is this natural, “arguably not”, does it allow the animals to grow larger, “definitely”. Do hundreds of thousands of hunters enjoy hunting game ranches annually, “yes they do”.
Fifth
Game Ranches are common place in many areas of the U.S., South Africa, New Zealand, Canada, etc. Some regions like Texas have little or no public land available for hunting. Hunters who grow up in places like Texas hunt exclusively on private ranches because that is the only place to hunt and many of the ranches are high fenced with controlled management programs. You probably don’t agree with game ranches because it is foreign to you and it seems unsporting and wrong, but your opinion might be much different if you grew up in Texas, or if you went hunting a few times in Texas for hogs or other exotics where they can be hunted any time of the year. Do I want to move to Texas “of course not”, would I support their methods of hunting as adamantly as I would support our methods here in Washington, “yes, absolutely”. Their hunting methods are just as important to them as our hunting methods are to us.
Perspective
The next time you are fishing on a small lake that has been stocked a few days before fishing season……The next time you are fishing with specialized modern tackle and equipment on a small stretch of stream where unnatural hatchery raised salmon must swim to get to their imagined spawning grounds……The next time you are fishing for Brook Trout, Brown Trout, Northern Pike, or Walleye, none of which are native to Washington……The next time you are hunting pheasants or turkeys especially at a release site or in agricultural areas, none of which are natural to Washington ……The next time you are hunting sheep that have been transplanted and spend their whole life in a few small canyons……The next time you are hunting elk in an area where herds have been fed through the winter, or herds are doing well because of logging cuts or agriculture……The next time you are hunting deer near agricultural areas or clear cuts because that’s where the most deer are located due to the extra feed……The next time you watch an old apple orchard, or a power line or logging cut full of berries for a bear……The next time you set up to hunt flocks of geese or ducks that are feeding in nearby fields………The next time you cast your semi-sink fly line with your carefully tied artificial fly at unsuspecting wild trout……Especially right when you pull the trigger, set the hook, or release the arrow……I WANT YOU TO REMEMBER THIS……
No matter how you may try to argue your points, modern day Hunting and Fishing that you enjoy doing is not completely natural and there are growing numbers of other people who want to stop you from doing it because they don’t believe in it. Furthermore a portion of those who want to stop you are other hunters and fishermen who simply don’t agree with your particular activity because they don’t think it is as sporting as their favorite hunting and fishing activity.
I am not asking you to raise or hunt whitetails in high fences or asking you to dunk a worm in the creek, I am only asking you to simply understand that some hunters may like to hunt game ranches, some fishers may like to use bait, and that they are not any more wrong in the eyes of the AR (animal rights) Advocates than you are with your favorite “more sporting” fishing and hunting activities.
Sportsmen are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others hunting and fishing opportunities at an alarming rate. If sports folks will just wake up and support each other, we will all get to hunt and fish for far more years than if we keep joining the AR Advocates in eliminating each others favorite activities one at a time because we each, in our self-centered and selfish wisdom think another particular hunting or fishing activity is not as sporting or costs too much for our own pocketbook.
Why would any sane hunter or fisher side with the AR Advocates to eliminate any other hunting or fishing activity? If you cannot see the light, do you really deserve to hunt and fish at all……
Best Regards,
A Fellow Concerned Sportsman
Post by: rudedawg1085 on May 06, 2009, 10:38:11 AM
Post by: rougheye on May 06, 2009, 10:39:30 AM
Post by: bearpaw on May 06, 2009, 10:50:47 AM
By the way, I'm not sure which point is the G-43.......LOL
Post by: lokidog on May 06, 2009, 09:24:04 PM
Like I keep trying to get across to people.....If my pursuit of happiness does not infringe on your pursuit of happiness, leave me the F alone. This pertains to left and right.
BTW I think the 43 is blocked out by the 63rd.....
Post by: jackelope on May 06, 2009, 10:20:08 PM
they have photos and/or video of that bull on dutton for more than a year. was he kept safe from all the hunters and guides for a few years too?Ya you watch, someone will pay to have that buck released somewhere so he can shoot it and try to claim it as a legit hunt. >:(
Kind of like the "spider bull"?? :chuckle:
MS
:yeah:
I think the same thing. No one will ever make me think different. That bull is like none ever killed. I think he is from canada.
Post by: bow4elk on May 06, 2009, 11:47:14 PM
For example, of all the animals I've taken with archery gear, a fork-horn blacktail taken at 6 yards with my homemade recurve stands out as one of my most special hunts. If you agree with my first paragraph, you know why.
A "farm buck" of any size is just a commodity steak to me. :twocents:
Post by: popeshawnpaul on May 06, 2009, 11:59:29 PM
I was simply trying to point out many of our animals are treated this way on a daily basis. Whether cow, deer, lamb, elk, turkey, or chicken it doesn't matter in my eyes. In fact, I'm ok with farm raising animals like deer and elk. I hate the ranches and when they escape it causes problems. However, in america I should be able to go to a restaurant and get elk, deer, or whatever I want. I'm really trying to teach my daughter that food is a commodity and to be open minded about it.
I don't know why this buck was raised and I don't know if they will "hunt" it. If some nimrod wants to pass it as a wild buck have at it. Whoever it is won't have my respect as a hunter. I suspect none of you will respect a "hunter" like that.
While I don't condone what they are doing, I don't want it stopped either. Prohibiting this will eventually lead to something I like being prohibited. I don't think there should be restrictions on much as this is a country of freedom to do what you want. I don't know where I'm going with this so I'll cut it off. :twocents:
Post by: Pat/Rick on May 07, 2009, 12:05:49 AM
Post by: bearpaw on May 07, 2009, 07:38:28 AM
Fair Chase or Not??? In the General Discussions Forum
I invite you to weigh in your thoughts and give your :twocents: as I present various potentially controversial hunting scenarios.