Post by: Sneaky on February 22, 2022, 09:49:48 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 22, 2022, 10:03:01 AM
To answer your question on glass, v4 is gonna be top of the pile with the vx5 close behind. SHV is right in there as well. You're likely splitting hairs as all three are great optically. Personally you couldn't pay me money to us any of the VX lines these days, so I'd go v4, then SHV. :twocents:
Post by: grundy53 on February 22, 2022, 10:16:38 AM
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: Alan K on February 22, 2022, 10:26:08 AM
Post by: frazierw on February 22, 2022, 10:33:07 AM
I'm really happy with my SHV. I plan on buying more for other rifles.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Echo this, love mine and wouldn't trade it.
Post by: Sneaky on February 22, 2022, 10:54:33 AM
Post by: blackpowderhunter on February 22, 2022, 10:56:31 AM
I'm curious as to why you want a traditional duplex reticle in a long range scope? Seems counterproductive.i bought a v4 6-24 based and love it, blown away with the glass for the money
To answer your question on glass, v4 is gonna be top of the pile with the vx5 close behind. SHV is right in there as well. You're likely splitting hairs as all three are great optically. Personally you couldn't pay me money to us any of the VX lines these days, so I'd go v4, then SHV. :twocents:
Post by: b23 on February 22, 2022, 11:28:58 AM
Single place to aim = not screwing it up under stress. Just looking to dial if necessary and go. Optical clarity and simplicity is important to me.
If you intend to dial with this setup I would be more concerned with the scopes ability to dial up/down and return to zero, consistently, than I would its optical quality.
Post by: Stein on February 22, 2022, 12:00:29 PM
Single place to aim = not screwing it up under stress. Just looking to dial if necessary and go. Optical clarity and simplicity is important to me.
If you intend to dial with this setup I would be more concerned with the scopes ability to dial up/down and return to zero, consistently, than I would its optical quality.
:yeah: :yeah:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 22, 2022, 12:14:07 PM
Post by: kselkhunter on February 22, 2022, 12:23:06 PM
Post by: Sneaky on February 22, 2022, 02:32:43 PM
Single place to aim = not screwing it up under stress. Just looking to dial if necessary and go. Optical clarity and simplicity is important to me.
If you intend to dial with this setup I would be more concerned with the scopes ability to dial up/down and return to zero, consistently, than I would its optical quality.
:yeah: :yeah:
Yeah, obviously.
Post by: Sneaky on February 22, 2022, 02:45:18 PM
My issue with duplex reticles in a LR scope is how do you accurately hold wind? A basic MOA reticle is a very simple tool to learn and will up your shooting game immensely.
Yeah I understand how they work, thanks
Post by: fishngamereaper on February 22, 2022, 02:55:24 PM
NF and Zeiss are a step above the lue...I love NF scopes but my eyes prefer the Zeiss. I'm currently running a Zeiss on my PRC and it's been exceptional. Superb glass, positive detents, solid zero stop etc...so far it's been flawless from Idaho to Alaska... :twocents:
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on February 22, 2022, 07:49:07 PM
Post by: jrebel on February 22, 2022, 08:07:55 PM
The SHV line of scopes does not have a zero stop. It has a what they call the "zero set" which I would describe as a "soft" zero stop. A zero set has a hard stop at your zero. If you have the zero set...it will allow you to go 1/4 moa past your zero if set correctly. I own both and have no problem with either....but there is a definite difference. I also have owned a 4-14 x 56 SHV and it had neither the zero set or zero stop......sold that one.
I started with the SHV line and absolutely love them for the cost. They are solid as a rock and I have had no tracking issues.....EVER!! They are big and they are heavy. I held a Zeiss a couple weeks ago and like how small it is. I ordered an NX8 and it is a lot smaller the the SHV. All have above average glass and are very clear.
As stated above and I will agree 250%.....no way I would buy a scope for long range with a simple duplex reticle. I hate busy reticles so I think the MOART reticle is a great compromise.
Good luck and happy hunting....the great news is, you will love whatever you buy. If you don't, I will buy it off you in a year for half price. :tup:
Post by: jjhunter on February 22, 2022, 08:39:09 PM
A guy should just shoot what he’s comfortable with because in the field, confidence and feel are king.
I broke in two new varmint guns with V4’s and duplex reticles, yesterday. The Zeiss version is has a wide fine crosshair which I liked. Seemed to be pretty nice scopes. Both guns were dialed in max of 3 rounds. Tracked perfectly. They both had capped windage and I thought the windage adjustment was a little cheap feeling, but, it tracked.
Post by: Sneaky on February 22, 2022, 09:09:15 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on February 22, 2022, 10:50:55 PM
Post by: bustedoldman on February 23, 2022, 07:57:41 AM
thanks everyone for the input. No love for leupold anywhere I look :chuckle:
I have 2 VX-5's with duplex and 1 with HTMR. Also a VX6 with a duplex. They all work and track fine, zero stop no issues, great in low light.
Post by: Igor on February 23, 2022, 08:07:04 AM
thanks everyone for the input. No love for leupold anywhere I look :chuckle:
Between my sons and myself, we have a total of 8 Leupold scopes. I've been a fan of Leupold for over 40 years.......and never been sorry. They have one of the better warranties, should you ever need one. I have returned two over the years for warranty work, and been very happy. Lots of manufacturers claim to have great warranties, until you need them.
Post by: Stein on February 23, 2022, 08:21:36 AM
It does track a bit to the left as I go out, but only about 1" or so from 100 to 300. I don't shoot past 400, most of the time in the 2-300 range so it isn't an issue. It's repeatable and holds a rock solid zero which is the bigger thing for me. I tried multiple methods to level the crosshairs and am convinced it's the turret not the level.
If I wanted to go beyond 400, it would be an issue and I would need to double the budget (or more) to bump up to the next level of quality or send this one back and hope they can fix it or roll the dice with a new one. For the price, I didn't expect a scope with quality glass and a rock solid turret.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 23, 2022, 08:28:36 AM
Over on rokslide there is a member who is doing very in depth testing of scopes. Its definitely worth jumping over there and doing a deep dive. Lota of scopes still to come. He isn't biased and he doesn't pull punches.
https://www.rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/
That link takes you to a main page. I recommend reading the green link about how the tests are conducted and then below that link are the seperate scope evals.
Post by: Mtnwalker on February 23, 2022, 08:37:03 AM
Its definitely the erector system Stein. Ive done tracking tests on quite a few vx5 and 6's the last few years and every single one starts walking horizontally.
Over on rokslide there is a member who is doing very in depth testing of scopes. Its definitely worth jumping over there and doing a deep dive. Lota of scopes still to come. He isn't biased and he doesn't pull punches.
https://www.rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/
That link takes you to a main page. I recommend reading the green link about how the tests are conducted and then below that link are the seperate scope evals.
How much walk are we talking here typically? I have a 6 that I just got back from Leupold and I still think its doing funny things...
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 23, 2022, 08:45:45 AM
Post by: Mtnwalker on February 23, 2022, 08:57:16 AM
The last vx6 I did was just like Stein observed. Didnt show till about 4 MOA but by 20 MOA it had walked 2.5 MOA.
Sounds about right... 2 @ 14.5
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 23, 2022, 09:05:47 AM
ouch.The last vx6 I did was just like Stein observed. Didnt show till about 4 MOA but by 20 MOA it had walked 2.5 MOA.
Sounds about right... 2 @ 14.5
Post by: Stein on February 23, 2022, 10:41:59 AM
Its definitely the erector system Stein. Ive done tracking tests on quite a few vx5 and 6's the last few years and every single one starts walking horizontally.
Over on rokslide there is a member who is doing very in depth testing of scopes. Its definitely worth jumping over there and doing a deep dive. Lota of scopes still to come. He isn't biased and he doesn't pull punches.
https://www.rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/
That link takes you to a main page. I recommend reading the green link about how the tests are conducted and then below that link are the seperate scope evals.
Thanks, good info.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on February 23, 2022, 01:10:08 PM
Post by: halibut herb on February 23, 2022, 03:41:21 PM
The last vx6 I did was just like Stein observed. Didnt show till about 4 MOA but by 20 MOA it had walked 2.5 MOA.
On my rifle 20 MOA is about 800 yards. Are you saying the vx6 will be off by 20 inches to the left or right? That seems like a non-starter for anybody actually trying to shoot that far.
For you guys that own the NF NX-8, how much time do you spend messing with the parallax adjustment to get the parallax out? It doesn’t have yardage printed on the turret like the Leupolds do. Is it fairly obvious that the target is in focus or do you still have to move your head around to make sure the reticle isn't moving around?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 23, 2022, 04:48:17 PM
correct.The last vx6 I did was just like Stein observed. Didnt show till about 4 MOA but by 20 MOA it had walked 2.5 MOA.
On my rifle 20 MOA is about 800 yards. Are you saying the vx6 will be off by 20 inches to the left or right? That seems like a non-starter for anybody actually trying to shoot that far.
For you guys that own the NF NX-8, how much time do you spend messing with the parallax adjustment to get the parallax out? It doesn’t have yardage printed on the turret like the Leupolds do. Is it fairly obvious that the target is in focus or do you still have to move your head around to make sure the reticle isn't moving around?
Post by: grundy53 on February 23, 2022, 04:49:00 PM
Its definitely the erector system Stein. Ive done tracking tests on quite a few vx5 and 6's the last few years and every single one starts walking horizontally.I've been following this thread. Very eye opening. I have a feeling it's going to get pretty expensive for me...
Over on rokslide there is a member who is doing very in depth testing of scopes. Its definitely worth jumping over there and doing a deep dive. Lota of scopes still to come. He isn't biased and he doesn't pull punches.
https://www.rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/
That link takes you to a main page. I recommend reading the green link about how the tests are conducted and then below that link are the seperate scope evals.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 23, 2022, 04:54:45 PM
one of my all time favorite scopes ever is my old mark 4. Ive owned a lot of good leupolds over the years. With that said, I can't wait for Form to start drop testing the vx line and breaking the internet. Leupold needs a good metaphorical slapping across the back of the head.Its definitely the erector system Stein. Ive done tracking tests on quite a few vx5 and 6's the last few years and every single one starts walking horizontally.I've been following this thread. Very eye opening. I have a feeling it's going to get pretty expensive for me...
Over on rokslide there is a member who is doing very in depth testing of scopes. Its definitely worth jumping over there and doing a deep dive. Lota of scopes still to come. He isn't biased and he doesn't pull punches.
https://www.rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/
That link takes you to a main page. I recommend reading the green link about how the tests are conducted and then below that link are the seperate scope evals.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: b23 on February 23, 2022, 05:07:25 PM
Leupold needs a good metaphorical slapping across the back of the head.
:chuckle: :chuckle:
Unfortunately, I think there's a few companies that could benefit from the same.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 23, 2022, 05:41:25 PM
you're not wrong! Especially for the prices they charge. I don't mind paying a mortgage payment for a scope but the son of a gun better function.Leupold needs a good metaphorical slapping across the back of the head.
:chuckle: :chuckle:
Unfortunately, I think there's a few companies that could benefit from the same.
Post by: grundy53 on February 23, 2022, 06:04:12 PM
Yeah, I've always been a Leupold guy. Probably because my dad and all of his buddies were. But it's probably telling that everyone had to sight in their rifles every year. Not just check zero. I was surprised when I got a Nightforce and it actually held zero for a whole year and I took it out and shot it through out the year. The Nightforce is their low end offering too (SHV).one of my all time favorite scopes ever is my old mark 4. Ive owned a lot of good leupolds over the years. With that said, I can't wait for Form to start drop testing the vx line and breaking the internet. Leupold needs a good metaphorical slapping across the back of the head.Its definitely the erector system Stein. Ive done tracking tests on quite a few vx5 and 6's the last few years and every single one starts walking horizontally.I've been following this thread. Very eye opening. I have a feeling it's going to get pretty expensive for me...
Over on rokslide there is a member who is doing very in depth testing of scopes. Its definitely worth jumping over there and doing a deep dive. Lota of scopes still to come. He isn't biased and he doesn't pull punches.
https://www.rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/
That link takes you to a main page. I recommend reading the green link about how the tests are conducted and then below that link are the seperate scope evals.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: thinkingman on February 24, 2022, 10:22:05 AM
The whole state of Oregon will protest that result!one of my all time favorite scopes ever is my old mark 4. Ive owned a lot of good leupolds over the years. With that said, I can't wait for Form to start drop testing the vx line and breaking the internet. Leupold needs a good metaphorical slapping across the back of the head.Its definitely the erector system Stein. Ive done tracking tests on quite a few vx5 and 6's the last few years and every single one starts walking horizontally.I've been following this thread. Very eye opening. I have a feeling it's going to get pretty expensive for me...
Over on rokslide there is a member who is doing very in depth testing of scopes. Its definitely worth jumping over there and doing a deep dive. Lota of scopes still to come. He isn't biased and he doesn't pull punches.
https://www.rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/
That link takes you to a main page. I recommend reading the green link about how the tests are conducted and then below that link are the seperate scope evals.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Funny, I've never trusted Leupold scopes and whenever I bring that up, I feel like I'm Tucker Carlson on The View.
Post by: Stein on February 24, 2022, 10:45:26 AM
That said, it looks like the zero drop test is claiming victims in the $1,000 - $2,000+ range and that is something that concerns me as I look for my next scope. Paying that kind of money I would want something that tracks and holds zero reliably.
I would expect sub $1,000 Vortex and Leupolds (and any other brand for that matter) to both track relatively poorly and fail the drop test. Put them on your rifle, zero, don't touch them and don't drop them, check your zero when you travel or have reason to believe they have been subject to impact. That's basically how they have been used historically and how they should be used today. Works great for the 100-300 yard shots the vast majority of game are taken with.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on February 24, 2022, 11:20:47 AM
Post by: grundy53 on February 24, 2022, 11:33:46 AM
The VX line is priced similarly to Vortex mid to upper and likely will perform similar. The model for those is you drop it, it either shifts and you re-zero or you break it, send it in and they fix it. It's pretty common for people to be concerned if they give their scope a drop or smack it on something. I don't know many people that think their scope they paid less than $1,000 is going to be super rugged and withstand multiple drops without losing zero.The drops aren't what concern me with the sub $1,000 scopes. It's the loss of zero from just riding around in a truck. Which is how most of us get to our hunting spots. It was eye opening how many lost zero while riding in the back seat of Form's truck. But you are right about the scopes in the $1,000-$2,000 range. I would expect more durability.
That said, it looks like the zero drop test is claiming victims in the $1,000 - $2,000+ range and that is something that concerns me as I look for my next scope. Paying that kind of money I would want something that tracks and holds zero reliably.
I would expect sub $1,000 Vortex and Leupolds (and any other brand for that matter) to both track relatively poorly and fail the drop test. Put them on your rifle, zero, don't touch them and don't drop them, check your zero when you travel or have reason to believe they have been subject to impact. That's basically how they have been used historically and how they should be used today. Works great for the 100-300 yard shots the vast majority of game are taken with.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: grundy53 on February 24, 2022, 11:34:14 AM
I'd agree with most of that except for the part about people not having absolute confidence in their sub 1k scopes. Id argue the opposite. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a guy who wouldn't argue to his grave that his vortex razor isn't the end all be all to rifle scopes.Or their Leupold.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: HUNT JR on February 24, 2022, 11:54:42 AM
Post by: Ingwe on February 26, 2022, 08:20:08 PM
Post by: Alchase on February 26, 2022, 09:53:51 PM
I have three Leupold VX3 3x9, and a few Firedots as well. None have ever “lost Zero” on their own. I do confirm zero before every opening day, which every responsible hunter should do. I also shoot my hunting rifles often, not just before opening day.
I have never actually seen a Leopold fail. Not saying it can’t happen. But I have actually witnessed three Vortex Razer Gen IIs fail shooting .223s as well as two Vipers.
But damn they have a great warranty! Said every Vortex owner ever.
Leupold also has a fantastic warranty, the difference is the average Leupold owner will never have to use it.
I love the features and functions the Vortext Razor has. I would not even consider buying one let alone having my life depend on one with the failure rate I have seen.
Post by: BigGoonTuna on February 27, 2022, 07:10:50 AM
i've definitely experienced the headaches of having to shoot several times to "settle" my vx3/vx3i scopes though.
i bought a meopta meopro (branded as an "instinct") on closeout from cabela's a few years ago, that was a real eye opener. bullets hitting 2" to the left at 100 yards? move the windage 8 clicks to the right, and it's spot on.
i still like my old leupolds, but it's because i'm what many would consider to be a fudd. i dislike 30mm tubes, big clunky eyepieces, and heavy scopes with a bunch of "tactical" clutter for a reticle. most of my guns are long actions, and most new scopes are too short and stubby to mount without a rail or ugly extension rings, despite weighing 20+ ounces. leupold has kind of broken my heart in the last several years by discontinuing many of their good, lighter scope offerings, closing the custom shop, and making the "wide duplex" reticle the only choice on several of their scopes (i really, really liked their german #4).
all that said, my last scope purchase was a tract toric 2-10x42. i've heard rave reviews about them and they are available in a german #4-ish reticle (they call it the "t-plex"). glass clarity is outstanding, the only gripe i have is that it's on the heavy side (18oz if i'm not mistaken).