Post by: pickardjw on March 28, 2022, 03:40:25 PM
CVA and T/C seem to be more reputable brands. Looking at CVA, does the Optima perform better than the Wolf to justify the price difference? I've read that the trigger guard breech lever is kind of annoying and can get hung up and inadvertantly open.
The T/C impact seems to be the only model they have under $500. How does it compare to the Wolf and Optima? I've read different opinions on it's breech pull action, that it can be tough to operate with gloves or when it's cold.
Thoughts on which of these three has the best trigger as well?
Post by: phildobaggins on March 28, 2022, 04:23:50 PM
Post by: duckmen1 on March 28, 2022, 04:40:28 PM
Post by: JakeLand on March 28, 2022, 05:34:22 PM
Post by: haftard on March 28, 2022, 07:23:35 PM
my brother has the tc encor muzzleloader and its a pretty sweet gun too. but i have little to no first hand experience with it. other then he says he likes the gun.
my uncles have the Acura and honlestly i dont see the reason for paying that much for a muzzleloader you have to use open sights with. they are pretty sweet and as soon as i draw a muzzloader tag where i can use optics ill go out and buy one. but at the same time i have my optima that is a solid shooter.
lastly BULLET SELECTOIN IS KEY. yes guys have killed critters with a 50 cal round ball, but its not 1776 any more. i have yet to see a poor result when shooting monolithic bullets designed to be shot out of a muzzleloader at slower speeds. personaly i shoot the kinght bloodlines in a 350g. and ill start shooting the 300s once i run out of 350s. every elk ive shot with it has gone less then 100 yards. little blood shot, and ive recovered all but one slug. the barns tsx bullets and other barns options have done amazing also. the reason im telling you this is we have lost 2 or 3 bulls in hunting camp due to the poor design of power belt bullets and we almost lost a cow due to them.
POW'shooting a power belt' . smoke clears.. she is getting back up.. 'then i shoot' pow. dumped her. when we where gutting her out the power belt had hit the shoulder blade. broke it. and stoped. didnt pernitrate more then about 3 inches. and if you watch the meat eater episode when steve is muzzleloader hunting in colorado. he hit a bull high in the shoulder. it looks as if the bullet hit the shoulder blade and didnt pernitrate at all. if i ever get a chance to talk to steve personally i would love to ask him about that bull and how the tracks looked.
any who . hope i answered a few of your questions. hope you find what your looking for and if you didnt. i hope your only take away from my post is to try your best to shoot a monolithic solid copper or brass bullet.
ps sorry for the typos and miss spelling
Post by: bkaech on March 28, 2022, 08:28:13 PM
Post by: DeerThug on March 28, 2022, 09:12:10 PM
All of your choices are equally lethal. As mentioned bullet choice is, in my opinion,
more important that the gun it is shot out of.
I think a Traditions will serve you well. Find one that you like and can afford, learn to shoot it and the rest will work out.
Post by: teanawayslayer on March 28, 2022, 09:16:01 PM
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on March 28, 2022, 09:27:09 PM
Post by: Sneaky on March 28, 2022, 10:51:37 PM
Post by: pickardjw on March 29, 2022, 08:51:39 AM
Cva and traditions are both made in Spain and by the same manufacturer. I’ve owned both and the both junk imo! Stick with American made. Might cost more but worth every penny!
Oof, yeah those Knight's are pricy. Are they the only American made option? And how does the bolt action compare to the break action in terms of cleaning?
Post by: phildobaggins on March 29, 2022, 09:19:41 AM
Post by: pickardjw on March 29, 2022, 09:59:20 AM
All these opinions are muddying the water even more I feel like :chuckle:
Just a bit :chuckle:
A couple good reviews of the CVA's though, and one confirmation on the Traditions being garbage. The worst part is now I'm looking at $900 Knight muzzleloaders!
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 29, 2022, 10:06:37 AM
My backup gun is a cva accura. Solid gun. Best gun I have ever shot is the remignton 700 uml. I have been running one 3 years now. They are getting back into production. I have sold a bunch and other then recoil with the full load no complaints. Lots of guys shooting them 250/300 yards. I am running 150grains instead of 200 and I can shoot very well to 200 yards.
Knights shoot great from all I have been around. Only thing I don't like is the screw safety as I saw that cost a couple critters over the years.
Post by: Farmer72 on March 29, 2022, 10:11:25 AM
Post by: tank21 on March 29, 2022, 02:45:47 PM
Post by: pickardjw on March 29, 2022, 03:53:16 PM
Post by: phildobaggins on March 29, 2022, 03:59:08 PM
Post by: pickardjw on March 29, 2022, 04:37:16 PM
With the stock sights on my T/C Impact, I don’t feel comfortable past 100 yards. Now, if I had a Williams peep sight on it, I may feel differently…
That's how I felt with my buddy's T/C with iron sights. I'll be west side elk hunting with it this fall so no need to stretch out for that. But I'll be looking at muzzy tags in the future in other states for better draw odds where a peep and further range would be useful.
Post by: haftard on March 29, 2022, 06:28:05 PM
Guys that have the sub-$500 CVA and T/C's - what do you feel the maximum range is on those? With the potential for 1x scopes here I don't want the muzzleloader itself to limit my range because it's inconsistent beyond 100yds.
the last bull i killd was at 149 yards when i shot him. ive hit steel out to 300. however i would never shoot at a animal that far with iron sights and that much drop. if i could use an adjustable turret and some glass i would say as far as you can diel.
im shooting 3 50g 777 pellets, winchester 777 209 primers and a 350g bloodline bullet in a cva optima with a Williams peep.
at 150 yards im holding about the top of a 16in gong. at 200 im about a foot or so above the gong and 300 yards i was aming somewhere between 3-5 ft above the target. 150 yards is my max shot on an elk tho.
Post by: pickardjw on March 31, 2022, 08:27:24 AM
Post by: JakeLand on March 31, 2022, 10:29:12 AM
Well if anything I'm learning alot about muzzleloader actions researching these things. It looks like all the used Knights on gunbroker are the older plunger style. Several LK models. Any thoughts on that action vs break action? Looks like most of Knight's current productions are bolt action. Only one really old disc for sale that I can find.both my knights disc extreme are bolt action and are the cats meow
Post by: pickardjw on March 31, 2022, 10:42:39 AM
Post by: HntnFsh on March 31, 2022, 11:44:49 AM
Killed a lot of elk with them!
Post by: JakeLand on March 31, 2022, 12:09:33 PM
How are they for cleaning? And they're a 209 system I assume, right?easy bolt slides out and use the wrench to pull out the breach plug takes a couple minutes. Yes bare 209 and flat out shoots . The one thing I didn’t like about the cva was the firing pin and bushing would get corroded so quick and so I always kept a few extras in the shooting box
Post by: pickardjw on March 31, 2022, 12:59:05 PM
A Big Horn .50 thumbhole with stainless barrel and timney trigger.
A nice looking MK85 .50 with 24" barrel and a wood stock
A Wolverine .50 with a thumbhole stock and blued barrel.
A Knight Revolution .50, stainless barrel and wood stock (this one's kinda pretty)
An LK-II .50 stainless barrel.
I know very little about models, but it appears these all have the same action. Descriptions don't all indicate whether they're #11 or 209. Stainless would be nice. Would any of these be legal in Idaho?
I'm also thinking about going with a Wilson FP peep sight. Not sure what front globe yet.
Post by: JakeLand on March 31, 2022, 02:16:54 PM
Post by: pickardjw on March 31, 2022, 03:14:24 PM
Post by: Farmer72 on March 31, 2022, 03:21:46 PM
Post by: JakeLand on March 31, 2022, 03:56:13 PM
They only have .52 caliber from what I can tell. Don't really want to pigeon hole myself into a unique caliber, especially considering how hard stuff has been to find.call them get a .50
Post by: Myrtle Creek Inc. on April 01, 2022, 08:10:32 AM
Looking to buy my first muzzleloader. Thought I had decided on the Traditions Buckstalker XT until I read some bad reviews on forums. Seems like the other reviews I read may not have been particularly valuable and the brand isn't quite as good as others.
CVA and T/C seem to be more reputable brands. Looking at CVA, does the Optima perform better than the Wolf to justify the price difference? I've read that the trigger guard breech lever is kind of annoying and can get hung up and inadvertantly open.
The T/C impact seems to be the only model they have under $500. How does it compare to the Wolf and Optima? I've read different opinions on it's breech pull action, that it can be tough to operate with gloves or when it's cold.
Thoughts on which of these three has the best trigger as well?
We have a lot of experience with Traditions, CVA, and Thompson Center. We have had excellent results with the Traditions Buckstalker, Pursuit, and Vortek models. Thus far in our testing, they have proven to be accurate, durable, and user-friendly. The same can be said for the CVA Wolf, Optima, Accura, and Paramount lines. There are pros and cons to both brands, however, in our opinion, one is not objectively better than the other.
As far as the Optima and the Wolf go, I think that the Optima is worth the jump in price for a few reasons. The Optima has a slightly longer barrel that will provide you with increased velocity and allow for longer shots. The Wolf's effective range is roughly 100-150 yards, whereas the Optima can be stretched out to around 200. If you don't plan to shoot further than 100 yards, however, the Wolf will still shoot at least a 2-3" group at 100 yards with tighter groups being very possible depending on bullet and powder combinations.
With regard to Thompson Center, they have always produced high-quality muzzleloaders, however, I would recommend caution when purchasing a T/C because of the current corporate ownership situation. Last year, T/C was divested by the Smith & Wesson brand and all production of T/C products was ceased. So it is unlikely that you will be able to find a T/C in stock, however, if you do, there is no guarantee that there will be any warranty or spare parts available moving forward. Because of this, I would recommend sticking with either Traditions or CVA.
Post by: jbeaumont21 on April 01, 2022, 08:18:53 AM
Well the Knights certainly seem like a good investment from everything I've read, here and elsewhere. They seem a bit hard to find though. Within my budget on gunbroker that I'm interested in there's:
A Big Horn .50 thumbhole with stainless barrel and timney trigger.
A nice looking MK85 .50 with 24" barrel and a wood stock
A Wolverine .50 with a thumbhole stock and blued barrel.
A Knight Revolution .50, stainless barrel and wood stock (this one's kinda pretty)
An LK-II .50 stainless barrel.
I know very little about models, but it appears these all have the same action. Descriptions don't all indicate whether they're #11 or 209. Stainless would be nice. Would any of these be legal in Idaho?
I'm also thinking about going with a Wilson FP peep sight. Not sure what front globe yet.
I put the globe with the cross hair insert on my Knight Disc Extreme and have loved it. It gives you a much better target than the fat fiber optics that come with the gun.
https://www.gohunt.com/read/skills/increased-accuracy-from-an-open-sight-muzzleloader#gs.vyno95
Post by: pickardjw on April 07, 2022, 09:44:40 AM
Seeing as a need a new rifle as well I might have to wait for one to pop up used though...two $1000 guns in one year is a bit much for my wallet.
Post by: JakeLand on April 07, 2022, 10:22:11 AM
Well I've decided a Knight Ultra-Lite is probably the best choice. Mostly because I can hunt Idaho with is as well in the future with a few extra parts. I read through another forum post from SabotLoader details the different parts needed to make the conversion. Sounds like it's in my technical skill wheelhouse.keep a eye on rockslide as Ive bought a couple knights there
Seeing as a need a new rifle as well I might have to wait for one to pop up used though...two $1000 guns in one year is a bit much for my wallet.
Post by: pickardjw on April 07, 2022, 11:16:29 AM
Well I've decided a Knight Ultra-Lite is probably the best choice. Mostly because I can hunt Idaho with is as well in the future with a few extra parts. I read through another forum post from SabotLoader details the different parts needed to make the conversion. Sounds like it's in my technical skill wheelhouse.keep a eye on rockslide as Ive bought a couple knights there
Seeing as a need a new rifle as well I might have to wait for one to pop up used though...two $1000 guns in one year is a bit much for my wallet.
Yeah, the scammers have been pretty effective over there lately so I'm hesitant to post a WTB. Assuming it's being shipped so cash isn't really an option, how are you getting buyer protection? I assume paypal 3% won't cover it since it's arguably a firearm.
Post by: JakeLand on April 07, 2022, 12:06:43 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 07, 2022, 02:34:47 PM
I look at how long they been a member and how many posts they’ve done , due diligent research and I haven’t gotten burned yet
x2 and the staff here watches the classifieds pretty hard myself included. If i see anything fishy it gets gone. If people get much for negative trade count they can go the way of the buffalo we don't need our good members getting hit with scammers.
Like said WTB with messages direct to your inbox is how most scammers get you. If the person is not a long standing member there is a few steps you can do to help. Most people can facetime or some kind of live feed for you to see. Have them show you the gun over that. Not just a picture. Most scammers dont have what they are saying they are selling and just fish pic's off the net. Also you can ask if they sell on any of the common platforms like ebay and gun broker etc and match there location to the user name and see if it adds up and if it does read the feedback.
Post by: pickardjw on April 07, 2022, 09:09:51 PM
Rokslide has been hit pretty hard recently though. Seems like people might be buying accounts or playing the longggg con where they post like normal people, sell a few things to get credibility then scam someone for a bigger amount.
Setting it up through Gunbroker seems like it would be ideal for buyer protection but it looks like a real pain for a one time sale as the seller.
So yeah, gotta have a lot of trust in that facetime! Hopefully a used Ultra-Lite goes for under $500 at least though...