Post by: ctwiggs1 on April 19, 2022, 08:18:58 AM
"The department promotes conservation of fish
and wildlife, while providing fishing, hunting, fish and wildlife
viewing, and other outdoor recreational opportunities compatible with
healthy, diverse, and sustainable fish and wildlife populations."
I've been searching and I didn't see RMEF, MDF, or any of the other biggies really getting involved other than to basically say they're unhappy about it. Is anybody taking action? I know on the fisheries side there are a few lawsuits this year.
Post by: KFhunter on April 19, 2022, 08:21:47 AM
Even BHA.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on April 19, 2022, 08:23:14 AM
I would join pretty much any .org that takes this up.
Even BHA.
I agree.
Post by: steeleywhopper on April 19, 2022, 08:23:28 AM
Post by: 7mmfan on April 19, 2022, 08:25:29 AM
Post by: lewy on April 19, 2022, 08:32:35 AM
Post by: Mtnwalker on April 19, 2022, 08:37:46 AM
Post by: ctwiggs1 on April 19, 2022, 08:39:00 AM
I'd support it. Unfortunately the way that is worded, they can say they don't have the data to prove that it is sustainable or healthy, which is what they stated as part of their decision.
I went to the Commissioners page and searched for the word "bear". Not a single result. I suspect if any of these folks were subject matter experts on black bears, it would be in their bios.
We have real subject matter experts that called for a black bear season. People who study bears for a living. They're highly educated and paid to do this. Their word carries weight in the courtroom. More weight than, say, a retired zoologist who has never worked on black bears in the wild.
I'm not saying that this would be easy, given that we have very leftist courts in WA. But I do think it needs to be attempted... Ideally in eastern WA.
What shocks me is that there hasn't been any mention of a lawsuit. I think a crowdfunded lawsuit could easily be fully financed.
Curtis
Post by: Jake Dogfish on April 19, 2022, 08:43:32 AM
A sure winner would be suing against the closure of unclassified invertebrates. No opportunity simply because wdfw is too lazy.
Post by: bullfever on April 19, 2022, 08:49:00 AM
Post by: jrebel on April 19, 2022, 08:51:58 AM
Post by: highcountry_hunter on April 19, 2022, 08:53:01 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 19, 2022, 09:01:27 AM
Post by: jackelope on April 19, 2022, 09:02:10 AM
Any insight here?
@saylean what do you know?
Post by: saylean on April 19, 2022, 09:15:43 AM
@WWC ??
Any insight here?
@saylean what do you know?
I’ve spoke to several orgs. The consensus so far is that there is not interest to pursue for the majority of them, due to the broad ability of the commission. That is not all the responses I got, only some. Personally I think there should be a lawsuit due to them not following procedure etc. I’m still searching avenues on how to proceed with some sort of accountability.
Post by: buckfvr on April 19, 2022, 09:24:32 AM
Them and the governor break RCW’s all the time with no lawsuits or consequences, why would this one be any different?
Constantly. ferguson is as sleazy as they get and wont let anyone stand in the way of the agenda. Not even voting.
Post by: KFhunter on April 19, 2022, 09:27:28 AM
@WWC ??
Any insight here?
@saylean what do you know?
I’ve spoke to several orgs. The consensus so far is that there is not interest to pursue for the majority of them, due to the broad ability of the commission. That is not all the responses I got, only some. Personally I think there should be a lawsuit due to them not following procedure etc. I’m still searching avenues on how to proceed with some sort of accountability.
Then it is *our* collective job to "encourage" the .orgs to pursue this with vigor, much like elk hunters did with RMEF over their initial neutrality stance regarding wolves.
Post by: Special T on April 19, 2022, 09:41:29 AM
Throughout this chapter, "department" is used to mean the Washington
fish and wildlife commission and the Washington department of fish and
wildlife. The term department may also include the staff and employees
of the department of fish and wildlife, where indicated by context.
(2) The department of fish and wildlife is the agency to which
the legislature has delegated responsibility for preserving, protecting, perpetuating, and managing fish and wildlife in the lands and waters of the state, including offshore waters.
Im no lawyer but what I would surmise is that when the levers of power are held by the animal rights crowd even a lead pipe cinch isnt a guarantee of success. Often times common sense seems to dictate these assumptions about what the WDFW should do. While I agree that the intent isnt being meet taking that to court is a fools errand. The Animal rights crowd screwed us out of spring bear using precise technical maneuvering. We either need to get a lot better at playing that game... or expand what we can do to thwart these legalize attacks. Unfortunately sportsmen do not have a cadre of lawyers that are volunteering to educate us on what to investigate data to organize or volunteer as a legal council on many issues. The conversations that Ive had with a few lawyers state that fighting the state to remedy an issue is a legal quagmire, and the only ones that are ultimately successful are the Tribes, and when they do so they get to skip straight to federal court. That is a huge advantage when you consider who controls the levers of power currently. Surely we have many lawyers on here that could educate us, but I doubt they are going to out themselves the first time some one calls into question their motives or credentials.
I say this with all the love and respect for the individual nature of sportsmen, because I am one, you/we are extremally hard to lead and convince of a positive direction that we can all pull the line in one direction. I hear a lot of "I would get involved IF..." with varying descriptions of reasons or excuses... Since we are hard to lead, just join an organization and forge forward. We all spend enough time on here to belong to an organization do a couple hours of research a week and report back, Right?
Perhaps some of you have not yet read the recent post WWC put up titled
Washington Hunters Urged To Get Involved In State Politics
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,270106.0.html
Post by: 7mmfan on April 19, 2022, 11:24:47 AM
I'd support it. Unfortunately the way that is worded, they can say they don't have the data to prove that it is sustainable or healthy, which is what they stated as part of their decision.
I went to the Commissioners page and searched for the word "bear". Not a single result. I suspect if any of these folks were subject matter experts on black bears, it would be in their bios.
We have real subject matter experts that called for a black bear season. People who study bears for a living. They're highly educated and paid to do this. Their word carries weight in the courtroom. More weight than, say, a retired zoologist who has never worked on black bears in the wild.
I'm not saying that this would be easy, given that we have very leftist courts in WA. But I do think it needs to be attempted... Ideally in eastern WA.
What shocks me is that there hasn't been any mention of a lawsuit. I think a crowdfunded lawsuit could easily be fully financed.
Curtis
@WWC ??
Any insight here?
@saylean what do you know?
I’ve spoke to several orgs. The consensus so far is that there is not interest to pursue for the majority of them, due to the broad ability of the commission. That is not all the responses I got, only some. Personally I think there should be a lawsuit due to them not following procedure etc. I’m still searching avenues on how to proceed with some sort of accountability.
This is the issue. The wording of the mission statement, and the RCW wording of the game commissions roles and responsibilities are so broad and vague, that they can use virtually anything to wiggle out of legal repercussions based on that alone. Sayleans point about pinning it to them over breach of procedure (unconfirmed commissioners, biased appointment of commissioners, not properly representing all user groups with commissioner appointments, etc...) would really be the only way to move forward with a lawsuit that I see.
I would fully support a .org or whatever that made it their mission to go after the state, wdfw and the commission with legal suits, but I'd want to see a well thought out path forward before doing so.
Post by: callturner on April 19, 2022, 11:52:24 AM
Post by: ctwiggs1 on April 19, 2022, 12:07:48 PM
How is it that none of you suckers corrected my typo??
Post by: jackelope on April 19, 2022, 04:21:18 PM
Stop the bus.
How is it that none of you suckers corrected my typo??
Normally I'd be all over that sort of thing, but after being called a grammar nazi or the like several dozen times, I stopped with all that.
Post by: Mtnwalker on April 19, 2022, 04:35:06 PM
Post by: Twispriver on April 19, 2022, 05:56:47 PM
Then is not the same word as than and they are not interchangeable.
There, their and they're are also different words.
Our national boundary is a border not a boarder; and
Several elk together is a herd. I've got no clue what a hurd is.
Post by: cem3434 on April 19, 2022, 06:39:19 PM
Post by: Caveman123 on April 19, 2022, 06:48:20 PM
Post by: hunter399 on April 19, 2022, 08:30:39 PM
Go shoot a bear this fall ,like it's deer season.
I'll post a state harvest chart ,which I'm sure most don't really care.
The spring harvest of bear makes no difference to the sustainability of bear population. Of course WDFW would support a hunt that has no effect to bear population yet is a cash cow for the state. It's all about the 100 dollar bill y'all.
Which is our future as hunters,very little opportunities/success rate ,BIG MONEY 💰 cash cow,
For a tiny tiny tiny piece of the pie.
In this chart I've included 2021 HARVEST for bear and it shows our harvest is only about as high as it was with 1 tag.
2019 was the year two tags was available,our harvest rate is declining with a few more years of declining harvest they will say population is declining.
Bear are not the same as ungulate.....
Length from cub to mature animal takes a bit longer.
Anyway here is the chart ,read it anyway you like.
The chart really makes no difference,cause the Commission don't consider harvest rates sound science now.
If our harvest rate dips below 1500 we will be below what is was before the two tag was given in 2019.
I'd say hunt fall like it's a spring permit,hunt fall bear like it's deer season,don't let harvest fall below that 1500 mark.
Post by: WWC on April 19, 2022, 10:25:00 PM
A lawsuit is just one avenue to facilitate change, and they are not a magic bullet. Big winds of change appear to be on the horizon. Read the Hunters Heritage Councils call to action on becoming politically involved.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 20, 2022, 05:31:05 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 20, 2022, 07:03:25 AM
Stop the bus.I was going to but opted to just silently judge you instead :chuckle:
How is it that none of you suckers corrected my typo??
Hunter399, I think a big part of last years "lower" harvest was largely due to the crazy heat. I know the kids and I had big plans to stack bears last year but when the lows are in high 90's it really takes the wind out of your sails for hiking around dealing with bear meat :chuckle: :bdid:
Post by: Streamer on April 20, 2022, 07:42:47 AM
Post by: hunter399 on April 20, 2022, 08:27:57 AM
I agreeStop the bus.I was going to but opted to just silently judge you instead :chuckle:
How is it that none of you suckers corrected my typo??
Hunter399, I think a big part of last years "lower" harvest was largely due to the crazy heat. I know the kids and I had big plans to stack bears last year but when the lows are in high 90's it really takes the wind out of your sails for hiking around dealing with bear meat :chuckle: :bdid:
August and September are pretty warm.
Not a lot of bear movement in the heat of the day.
Then they keep trying to shut the woods down every year for fire season.
And you can't tell. What lands are open,what's closed.
Total $!@# show every August.
Especially on the dry side.
I was unsuccessful last year ,but I'm going to try a bit harder.
I seen one bear last year, I was seeing up a game cam,but the property owner didn't want any body rifle hunting until it rained . I didn't even have a firearm with me.
Post by: Special T on April 20, 2022, 09:19:55 AM
I cant say I believe the winds of change are in the hunters favor.
Well with the percieved red wave coming that could help sportsmen come elections. I'd have to double check the numbers but... Republicans need to get 8 seats in the house for a majority, and they are all up for re election. The senate needs 2 and half are up? The details star getting inside baseball but this is some of the rough number I heard that generally side with Sportsmen.
Post by: James on May 13, 2022, 12:02:31 PM
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/wdfw-mandate-more-on-commission-agenda-at-retreat/
Post by: KNOPHISH on May 13, 2022, 02:46:56 PM
Post by: KB88 on May 13, 2022, 05:54:53 PM
Talk is cheap, time to put up or shut up. I’d rather put up a fight then sit on my computer, arm chair quarterbacking while our passion becomes nothing but memories. We can get all the sportsman to make a big enough commotion, we just have to start.
Post by: 87Ford on May 13, 2022, 07:33:08 PM
I don't want to be a negative Nancy, but I don't like the sounds of this.
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/wdfw-mandate-more-on-commission-agenda-at-retreat/
"At a recent Wildlife Committee meeting of the commission, there were also calls for a new approach to updating the six-year Game Management Plan, including taking climate change into account (most if not all of Washington’s hunted species are generalists with widespread distribution throughout the West), along with using more than science, i.e., public opinion and the role of predators in ecosystems, to determine hunting seasons."
This part especially does not sound promising.
Post by: highcountry_hunter on May 14, 2022, 07:48:44 AM
So I’m assuming that this meeting is open for the public to sit in on in Walla Walla?
Post by: Twispriver on May 14, 2022, 08:50:09 AM
Post by: highcountry_hunter on May 14, 2022, 10:12:46 AM
We, as a user group, ignore the biologist as well if we don't like what they have to say. If you were to use this forum as a barometer we don't trust them to count salmon and steelhead, we don't believe their deer and elk counts and we sure as he!! don't trust them to count wolves and cougars - but we were all in on "follow the science" when it came to spring bear.
Very well stated good sir.