Post by: fireweed on June 07, 2022, 09:49:15 AM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-06/20220610%20-%20C.%202023%20Agency%20Request%20Legislation%20-%20BriefingPPT.pdf
Post by: Ghost Hunter on June 07, 2022, 09:59:44 AM
Post by: Special T on June 07, 2022, 10:05:59 AM
Post by: Jake Dogfish on June 07, 2022, 10:10:43 AM
Why should people from Oregon get to catch all our endangered smelt for free?
Post by: KFhunter on June 07, 2022, 10:13:46 AM
Post by: Special T on June 07, 2022, 10:20:51 AM
Absolutely!
Why should people from Oregon get to catch all our endangered smelt for free?
So at least you can make an argument for that. You cant make one for Carp, and Im not sure about the impact of crawfish so...
The WDFW is going to propose that the public need a license for smelt, carp, and crayfish.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-06/20220610%20-%20C.%202023%20Agency%20Request%20Legislation%20-%20BriefingPPT.pdf
Did this come from a meeting? does some kind of commenting porthole exist?
Post by: trophyhunt on June 07, 2022, 10:25:10 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 07, 2022, 10:48:17 AM
Post by: Dhoey07 on June 07, 2022, 11:00:02 AM
Post by: WAcoueshunter on June 07, 2022, 11:10:44 AM
Hell no, enough already for Gods sake!! Manage our money better and quit coming up with more “taxes”! If they want to just “add” them under the current fishing license, ok, most people who smelt or get crawdads have a license anyway.
That's how I read it, they are just taking away an exemption, meaning you'd need the regular fishing license now to fish for those. I don't see any problem with that. Not sure why those species would have been different in the first place.
Post by: Jake Dogfish on June 07, 2022, 11:11:29 AM
I typically catch invasive crayfish, ain't getting a special license for that, my regular fresh water oughta be good enough!
Legally you are required to kill them at the body of water you caught them at.
At the same time we are not allowed to kill invasive green crabs.
Both stupid rules! :bash:
Post by: KFhunter on June 07, 2022, 11:13:04 AM
I'm not a salty
Post by: dreamingbig on June 07, 2022, 11:23:44 AM
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Post by: duckmen1 on June 07, 2022, 11:24:15 AM
Post by: Jake Dogfish on June 07, 2022, 11:32:22 AM
For sure smelt should have a license. Why it don't blows my mind. Especially on a fishery strickly regulated.:yeah:
I guess you can leave an exception for carp, but i don’t think it matters much. Maybe to a bowhunter? :dunno:
If your fishing with a fishing rod you should have a license. Saying your fishing for carp sounds fishy to me.
Post by: Special T on June 07, 2022, 11:45:24 AM
For sure smelt should have a license. Why it don't blows my mind. Especially on a fishery strickly regulated.:yeah:
I guess you can leave an exception for carp, but i don’t think it matters much. Maybe to a bowhunter? :dunno:
If your fishing with a fishing rod you should have a license. Saying your fishing for carp sounds fishy to me.
I only fish with my bow for carp. The amount people that bow fish is huge, and only a few of us are crazy enough to eat them!
Post by: CastleRocker on June 07, 2022, 11:56:55 AM
As far as carp go, there should be a bounty on them. (Should be a bounty on California Sea Lions as well, be we all know that).
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 07, 2022, 12:01:07 PM
Post by: jrebel on June 07, 2022, 12:04:01 PM
Sounds pretty dumb to me.
Post by: duckmen1 on June 07, 2022, 12:24:47 PM
Absolutely not! Where does it end? There is no management on smelt, never has been. They guess as far as run size, and most times are way off. As an ex-commercial fisherman, I can tell you this; there are so many thousands of ton of smelt wasted every shrimp season, it would blow people's mind. When a dragger sets on a big biomass, they have no idea what it is. When it's smelt, they are just dumped. If the WDFG would regulate that waste, we would have the runs like we did all through the 90's. The year after they were classified as endangered was one of the biggest runs in history. Why? maybe it had something to to do with the lack of shrimp draggers off the coast that year? As far as crawdads go, are you kidding me? They don't even know how many there are, as they don't even do studies. If the WDFG would study either species at all, then I'd agree to lumping them in with a fishing license. Until then, we don't need to pay the WDFG any more of our money.
As far as carp go, there should be a bounty on them. (Should be a bounty on California Sea Lions as well, be we all know that).
Well they certainly regulate recreational fisherman with one or 2 days a year. And in those days only a few hours. And a limit. If we are lucky to see a day on the water. All the non recreational users go out and abuse that dip fishery as they have no respect for the resource, over harvest, etc. I see nothing wrong with adding smelt onto a general fishing license that the majority of fisherman already have or make a small fee license for smelt if one chooses to not purchase a standard license. They are participating on a run of fish and one that is regulated hard for recreational anglers. So why not a license.
Post by: 3boys on June 07, 2022, 12:26:56 PM
If the warden checks you on your way to vehicle and you haven't filled out time and amount issue a big fat ticket.
Way too many greedy folks over harvesting the resource.
Post by: Hurricane on June 07, 2022, 12:39:02 PM
Post by: duckmen1 on June 07, 2022, 12:50:15 PM
We overpay already for the limited opportunity we get for our licenses. The WDFW can't give us a guaranteed smelt season and when they do it's not enough to justify charging for it. But I am sure with people being fed up and going out of state, the money has to be made up from somewhere. It wouldn't surprise me at all if we have to pay for this.
I pay for a general fishing license to fish for trout, bass, catfish, walleye, salmon, steelhead, panfish, and just about anything else you can think of. One price for the bundle. Why not include smelt on my license within the bundle freshwater fishery license. It wouldn't be an additional charge to my license. Just to make it to where non license users pay to contribute as well and support our fisheries as you and I do.
For smelt they should have a license and tag for time and volume filled out to prevent all the dirtbags from driving around to other spots getting way over there limit.
If the warden checks you on your way to vehicle and you haven't filled out time and amount issue a big fat ticket.
Way too many greedy folks over harvesting the resource.
Bingo spot on. A catch record card for smelt would help greatly in ticketing fowl play on the fishery.
Post by: Jake Dogfish on June 07, 2022, 12:52:11 PM
Am I missing something......Wouldn't carp and crayfish be classified under your freshwater fishing license?You are missing something.
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 07, 2022, 12:54:28 PM
We overpay already for the limited opportunity we get for our licenses. The WDFW can't give us a guaranteed smelt season and when they do it's not enough to justify charging for it. But I am sure with people being fed up and going out of state, the money has to be made up from somewhere. It wouldn't surprise me at all if we have to pay for this.
I'm not saying that smelt should cost extra at all. I don't think it should. I'm saying that all of us who already buy hunting and fishing licenses will benefit from the extra revenue gained by requiring a fishing license from everyone who dips smelt. Don't you already have a fishing license?
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 07, 2022, 12:57:33 PM
Am I missing something......Wouldn't carp and crayfish be classified under your freshwater fishing license? The only way to charge more for them would be to require a special license / catch card to report your numbers of these species caught. If there is specific license required, where would it all stop????? Next thing you know, you would need a license for "rainbow trout" separate license for "Brown Trout", separate license for Large mouth bass and so on......Carp, crayfish, and smelt are currently unregulated. A license isn't currently required to harvest them...and bullfrogs. The proposal, as I understand it is to regulate them by requiring a fishing license.
Sounds pretty dumb to me.
Post by: KP-Skagit on June 07, 2022, 01:26:01 PM
To me, separating the three of them seems like an unnecessary complication (and why just these three, why not pike, pikeminnow, the list goes on). Also opens a potential door to abuse. I am fine with them requiring licenses, but not for any extra money.
Post by: metlhead on June 07, 2022, 01:30:17 PM
Post by: Oldguy on June 07, 2022, 01:45:08 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on June 07, 2022, 01:51:06 PM
Definately for smelt. I am already looking forward to the s***show that's gonna happen down there next season. How entertaining it is when hundreds of people instantly 'no understand'. I'm really for just one simple license to take anything from state waters, within seasons and limits.
:yeah:
Post by: Ridgeratt on June 07, 2022, 01:57:44 PM
Seems pretty simple .
Post by: HntnFsh on June 08, 2022, 11:50:56 AM
Absolutely not! Where does it end? There is no management on smelt, never has been. They guess as far as run size, and most times are way off. As an ex-commercial fisherman, I can tell you this; there are so many thousands of ton of smelt wasted every shrimp season, it would blow people's mind. When a dragger sets on a big biomass, they have no idea what it is. When it's smelt, they are just dumped. If the WDFG would regulate that waste, we would have the runs like we did all through the 90's. The year after they were classified as endangered was one of the biggest runs in history. Why? maybe it had something to to do with the lack of shrimp draggers off the coast that year? As far as crawdads go, are you kidding me? They don't even know how many there are, as they don't even do studies. If the WDFG would study either species at all, then I'd agree to lumping them in with a fishing license. Until then, we don't need to pay the WDFG any more of our money.
As far as carp go, there should be a bounty on them. (Should be a bounty on California Sea Lions as well, be we all know that).
I have heard this happens in Alaska and Canada to the smelt that enter the Columbia. But haven't heard of that happening off the coast of Washington.
Is that really the case? :dunno:
Post by: Stein on June 08, 2022, 12:10:10 PM
There's certainly been management on smelt via bag limits, Castlerocker. I agree on "no" to carp and crawdads. But requiring a standard fishing license (no extra charge) would mean that more people would be paying for gamies in the field to make sure no one's abusing the limits.
I wouldn't assume that is where the money will go...
Post by: washingtonmuley on June 08, 2022, 03:43:44 PM
Post by: WAcoueshunter on June 08, 2022, 09:32:18 PM
No!! We buy enough BS licenses as it is!!
It’s the same license you already have.
Post by: KFhunter on June 08, 2022, 09:41:27 PM
No!! We buy enough BS licenses as it is!!
It’s the same license you already have.
I wasn't sure that had been clarified yet :dunno:
Post by: WAcoueshunter on June 08, 2022, 09:49:01 PM
No!! We buy enough BS licenses as it is!!
It’s the same license you already have.
I wasn't sure that had been clarified yet :dunno:
Fair question if you just read the thread. But if you read the actual rule being proposed, they are just deleting a current exemption from the base fishing license requirement. I was surprised to learn you didn’t need a license for smelt and carp to begin with. Now you would. But just your basic fishing license, like you need for every other fish that swims in freshwater.
Post by: bigtex on June 08, 2022, 09:50:50 PM
Smelt and crayfish are certainly regulated. Crayfish has a season with a bag limit, and smelt are protected federally under the ESA.Am I missing something......Wouldn't carp and crayfish be classified under your freshwater fishing license? The only way to charge more for them would be to require a special license / catch card to report your numbers of these species caught. If there is specific license required, where would it all stop????? Next thing you know, you would need a license for "rainbow trout" separate license for "Brown Trout", separate license for Large mouth bass and so on......Carp, crayfish, and smelt are currently unregulated. A license isn't currently required to harvest them...and bullfrogs. The proposal, as I understand it is to regulate them by requiring a fishing license.
Sounds pretty dumb to me.
Post by: bigtex on June 08, 2022, 09:52:15 PM
:yeah:Fair question if you just read the thread. But if you read the actual rule being proposed, they are just deleting a current exemption from the base fishing license requirement. I was surprised to learn you didn’t need a license for smelt and carp to begin with. Now you would. But just your basic fishing license, like you need for every other fish that swims in freshwater.I wasn't sure that had been clarified yet :dunno:No!! We buy enough BS licenses as it is!!It’s the same license you already have.
It just removes a long-held exemption. Those of us old enough may remember when you didn't need a fishing license in WA to fish the saltwater...
Post by: HunterStrait on June 08, 2022, 10:02:54 PM
Post by: Encore 280 on June 08, 2022, 10:05:45 PM
Post by: WAcoueshunter on June 08, 2022, 10:06:33 PM
IMHO you shouldn't have to have a license to fish for invasive species...
Like bass and walleye?
Post by: KFhunter on June 08, 2022, 10:24:34 PM
At some point they gotta be no longer invasive..
Post by: KFhunter on June 08, 2022, 10:27:30 PM
No!! We buy enough BS licenses as it is!!
It’s the same license you already have.
I wasn't sure that had been clarified yet :dunno:
Fair question if you just read the thread. But if you read the actual rule being proposed, they are just deleting a current exemption from the base fishing license requirement. I was surprised to learn you didn’t need a license for smelt and carp to begin with. Now you would. But just your basic fishing license, like you need for every other fish that swims in freshwater.
If that's the case, then this thread is a nothing burger
Post by: HunterStrait on June 08, 2022, 10:33:37 PM
IMHO you shouldn't have to have a license to fish for invasive species...
Like bass and walleye?
You could say that even though they're not considered "invasive", but yeah them too, honestly.
I'd catch them by the dozens in the mid Columbia all the time so they're plentiful.
If WDFW wants to promote salmon recovery then i see no reason for them to put fishing for non-native species, that do in fact prey on salmon smolt, behind a paywall.
Post by: Jake Dogfish on June 08, 2022, 11:12:40 PM
If your fishing with a pole you should have a license and provide it to a gamey. Illegal immigrants should no be able to say they are fishing for invasive species and tell the officers to buzz off.IMHO you shouldn't have to have a license to fish for invasive species...
Like bass and walleye?
You could say that even though they're not considered "invasive", but yeah them too, honestly.
I'd catch them by the dozens in the mid Columbia all the time so they're plentiful.
If WDFW wants to promote salmon recovery then i see no reason for them to put fishing for non-native species, that do in fact prey on salmon smolt, behind a paywall.
The only issue with the new rules would be bowhunters for carp as previously stated.
Post by: Special T on June 08, 2022, 11:30:58 PM
If your fishing with a pole you should have a license and provide it to a gamey. Illegal immigrants should no be able to say they are fishing for invasive species and tell the officers to buzz off.IMHO you shouldn't have to have a license to fish for invasive species...
Like bass and walleye?
You could say that even though they're not considered "invasive", but yeah them too, honestly.
I'd catch them by the dozens in the mid Columbia all the time so they're plentiful.
If WDFW wants to promote salmon recovery then i see no reason for them to put fishing for non-native species, that do in fact prey on salmon smolt, behind a paywall.
The only issue with the new rules would be bowhunters for carp as previously stated.
I personally think this is the main reason forth rule change. I dont know but id bet this is an enforcement issue
Post by: fireweed on June 09, 2022, 08:51:22 AM
I don't really have a dog in the fight but I wouldn't mind them being added to a regular license without additional charge. It would mean more people getting licenses and paying into the WDFW.It looks like they want to remove the "exceptions" for smelt, carp and crayfish. There was a big brush up over this in SW Washington years ago when they wanted to require a license for smelt. Politicians got involved and screamed. Now, with so many out-of-area abusers of the single day smelt season, I'm for making people get a fishing license--most people have one already. Crayfish I'd say no.
Post by: Stein on June 09, 2022, 08:54:12 AM
Post by: bigtex on June 09, 2022, 09:03:55 AM
I agree, fishing for any fish, yes. Crayfish, no. Are they going to go ticket all the kids at lakes and streams picking them up all summer even if they don't keep them?Kids don't need fishing licenses
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Post by: fireweed on June 09, 2022, 09:07:45 AM
But at a certain age they do. And then they have to prove their age. Leave crawdads--the absolute key to a happy, healthy rural childhood experience, alone! It's probably illegal for kids to "play" with them anyway on some technical grounds.I agree, fishing for any fish, yes. Crayfish, no. Are they going to go ticket all the kids at lakes and streams picking them up all summer even if they don't keep them?Kids don't need fishing licenses
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Post by: Bullkllr on June 09, 2022, 09:08:17 AM
Post by: bigtex on June 09, 2022, 09:17:34 AM
I'd support including them under the standard license. You need a license for all other forage fish and crustaceans that I'm aware of. The exceptions for smelt and crawdads seems pointless and must certainly create enforcement issues. I'd throw rod/reel angling for carp in there too.That's what the proposal is. This is not creating a special license.
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Post by: duckmen1 on June 09, 2022, 09:22:37 AM
I'd support including them under the standard license. You need a license for all other forage fish and crustaceans that I'm aware of. The exceptions for smelt and crawdads seems pointless and must certainly create enforcement issues. I'd throw rod/reel angling for carp in there too.That's what the proposal is. This is not creating a special license.
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Yeah as far as rod reel angling for carp needed it under your same license why not. Just add carp into the fine print of species on a license. No harm. And of course they can manage the same as our management on walleye, bass, and catfish on our rivers with no management at all. No size restrictions and no limits and wreck our fisheries. Only with carp it won't matter as they are not going anywhere no matter how many get taken. Its one species that you just can't get rid of.
Post by: Stein on June 09, 2022, 09:29:20 AM
I agree, fishing for any fish, yes. Crayfish, no. Are they going to go ticket all the kids at lakes and streams picking them up all summer even if they don't keep them?Kids don't need fishing licenses
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Good point. Hopefully they aren't thinking about crayfish punch cards. :chuckle:
Post by: Angry Perch on June 09, 2022, 09:57:34 AM
If your fishing with a pole you should have a license and provide it to a gamey. Illegal immigrants should no be able to say they are fishing for invasive species and tell the officers to buzz off.IMHO you shouldn't have to have a license to fish for invasive species...
Like bass and walleye?
You could say that even though they're not considered "invasive", but yeah them too, honestly.
I'd catch them by the dozens in the mid Columbia all the time so they're plentiful.
If WDFW wants to promote salmon recovery then i see no reason for them to put fishing for non-native species, that do in fact prey on salmon smolt, behind a paywall.
The only issue with the new rules would be bowhunters for carp as previously stated.
This. If I'm on at Potholes dragging around a Lindy Rig and a worm, am I fishing for carp? Perch? Walleyes? Bass?
Post by: Jamieb on June 09, 2022, 12:13:51 PM
Post by: Special T on June 09, 2022, 04:48:34 PM
I'd support including them under the standard license. You need a license for all other forage fish and crustaceans that I'm aware of. The exceptions for smelt and crawdads seems pointless and must certainly create enforcement issues. I'd throw rod/reel angling for carp in there too.That's what the proposal is. This is not creating a special license.
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It appears that this is some things that the WDFW may request for legislation. Do you have any insight o the Carp Bowfishing issue?
Post by: NRA4LIFE on June 10, 2022, 12:00:41 PM
If your fishing with a pole you should have a license and provide it to a gamey. Illegal immigrants should no be able to say they are fishing for invasive species and tell the officers to buzz off.IMHO you shouldn't have to have a license to fish for invasive species...
Like bass and walleye?
You could say that even though they're not considered "invasive", but yeah them too, honestly.
I'd catch them by the dozens in the mid Columbia all the time so they're plentiful.
If WDFW wants to promote salmon recovery then i see no reason for them to put fishing for non-native species, that do in fact prey on salmon smolt, behind a paywall.
The only issue with the new rules would be bowhunters for carp as previously stated.
This. If I'm on at Potholes dragging around a Lindy Rig and a worm, am I fishing for carp? Perch? Walleyes? Bass?
A Lindy Rig. That's funny. If I didn't know already, I could narrow down your origin to probably 2 states.
Post by: Gobble Doc on June 10, 2022, 12:21:13 PM
Post by: Angry Perch on June 12, 2022, 07:30:05 PM
If your fishing with a pole you should have a license and provide it to a gamey. Illegal immigrants should no be able to say they are fishing for invasive species and tell the officers to buzz off.IMHO you shouldn't have to have a license to fish for invasive species...
Like bass and walleye?
You could say that even though they're not considered "invasive", but yeah them too, honestly.
I'd catch them by the dozens in the mid Columbia all the time so they're plentiful.
If WDFW wants to promote salmon recovery then i see no reason for them to put fishing for non-native species, that do in fact prey on salmon smolt, behind a paywall.
The only issue with the new rules would be bowhunters for carp as previously stated.
This. If I'm on at Potholes dragging around a Lindy Rig and a worm, am I fishing for carp? Perch? Walleyes? Bass?
A Lindy Rig. That's funny. If I didn't know already, I could narrow down your origin to probably 2 states.
I'm guessing you've caught most/ all of those species on one.
Post by: NRA4LIFE on June 12, 2022, 07:41:05 PM
But on topic, I could see an endorsement for smelt. Wish we'd have been reigned in on Lake Michigan in the late 70s and 80s. Maybe some would be left.