Post by: Pete112288 on September 01, 2022, 08:02:55 AM
Thank ya
Post by: 7mmfan on September 01, 2022, 08:13:30 AM
So Daisy is just over 2 years old. So far I feel very happy with a lot of her training and she has done very well. The only thing is heel. My goal is to have her heel at the point where her collar is about even with my knee. She responds very well when I am forcing her to pay attention by doing 90 degree turns or turning back on our path randomly. She will follow suit perfectly and I praise her and it's all fine. But if we are just casually walking and there is no course changes for a moment, she starts to get out ahead more. I repeat the heel command and sometimes it works but most of the time I have to dead stop or repeat the command in a harsh tone to get her back. But once she is in the right heel location she slowly works her way back out or, and this is my biggest struggle, I praise her and she seems to think the praise, or treat, or pat on the head means the task is done and she immediately goes out ahead. She doesn't do this with other commands. I can tell her to stay, walk away, and say "good girl" and she will wag her tail or such but continues to follow the command. But if I say good girl to her heeling properly, then she immediately goes back forward. Any ideas or tips from anyone?
Thank ya
My lab did the exact same thing with heel. As soon as praise was given, it seemed it was a greenlight to head out. I'll be interested to see what experienced trainers have to say.
Post by: mcrawfordaf on September 01, 2022, 08:23:57 AM
I'd recommend using a wonder lead https://www.gundogsupply.com/wonder-lead.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&campaign=DPA&utm_term=WONDER-LEAD&gclid=CjwKCAjwsMGYBhAEEiwAGUXJae4uzsjrrrgDMoa5RfwoJlJT3d2fv_HJ-OACw0nJ0IMLF3gvN7lkIxoCuhAQAvD_BwE (https://www.gundogsupply.com/wonder-lead.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&campaign=DPA&utm_term=WONDER-LEAD&gclid=CjwKCAjwsMGYBhAEEiwAGUXJae4uzsjrrrgDMoa5RfwoJlJT3d2fv_HJ-OACw0nJ0IMLF3gvN7lkIxoCuhAQAvD_BwE) or a JASA force collar https://www.lcsupply.com/products/jasa-force-collar?variant=29442506620989 (https://www.lcsupply.com/products/jasa-force-collar?variant=29442506620989)
I've gone with the wonder lead and back that up with e-stimulation when using a standard long lead. The benefits to these types of collar/leads is almost instant correction timing where as a standard slip lead or collar gives too much time between the error and the correction. I'm not incredibly experienced, but I've worked with a few guys who are and do a lot of research on dog training and this seems to be the way to go to get a good heel/whoa out of a dog. She needs to know that her cheek bone damn near resting on your knee is the safe spot where no correction will be made.
Post by: Fidelk on September 01, 2022, 08:52:01 AM
Suggestion #2: Take her walking with a longer leash or even a length of rope (6-8 feet). Just walk along and let her get comfortable doing her thing. You are setting her up for something that she is not going to like. When she shows the tendency to drift and doing what she wants to do as opposed to how you want her to perform....the stage is set. Take her on a walk where there are street signs and stop signs on poles. If the leash is in your right hand, you want to be walking to the left hand side of the poles you are coming up on. As you approach these signs, aim your body right at them and cut off her angle to get past. If she is not following your lead, she will be stranded on the right side of the pole and you will be on the left side of it. This is what you want to happen. Move forward on the left of the pole, tightening the leash. She isn't going to want to back up and will pull on the leash, trying to go forward. Don't let her win this tugging contest. Drag her back around the pole. Now that she is back where she needs to be, continue with your walk and proceed to the next pole and repeat. It will be the rare dog that will fail this test three times. She should remember the lesson but repeat if needed.
Suggestion #3 (Bonus): When you want a dog to relieve itself......always repeat the same command. "Hurry Up!" works real well.
I'm not a dog trainer, I read a book and applied this to my young female Rottweiler. It worked to perfection and served as a base for further training. She learned to stay on my heel without a leash......I could tell her to sit and stay and then walk away until I was out of sight, and then whistle to free her from the "stay".......I could also take her for a walk and say "hurry up" about 20 times......after the second or third command she had no more real business to perform but would squat and fake it in order to comply with the command.
Post by: vandeman17 on September 01, 2022, 09:08:36 AM
Post by: huntnfmly on September 01, 2022, 09:56:58 AM
At some point After you praised her or gave her a treat you let her go so now she thinks that’s the cue to go
I use the cue ok to let my dog go from any drills we are doing
Also an ecollar will help once she learns the command collars are not for teaching they are used to reinforce what a dog already knows and can give instant corrections
Overlay the jerk on the leash with a tap on the collar
My dog now if he takes a couple steps after I stop I’ll say heel and he walks backwards to get back in position
Keep at it and be consistent
Post by: Rutnbuxnbulls on September 01, 2022, 10:28:40 AM
Post by: Fidelk on September 01, 2022, 10:49:30 AM
Post by: KFhunter on September 01, 2022, 11:32:35 AM
Post by: callturner on September 01, 2022, 11:46:48 AM
Post by: SuperX on September 01, 2022, 12:01:13 PM
You are doing the right thing changing directions now that she pulls ahead like said in another post quick jerk on leash
At some point After you praised her or gave her a treat you let her go so now she thinks that’s the cue to go
I use the cue ok to let my dog go from any drills we are doing
Also an ecollar will help
Overlay the jerk on the leash with a tap on the collar
My dog now if he takes a couple steps after I stop I’ll say heel and he walks backwards to get back in position
Keep at it and be consistent
This is what I would recommend as well. Letting the dog 'off control' with that praise is the key message. I would also make sure to train the dog to sit when I stop and then every time they nosed ahead, I would stop, make them sit, then start again. Labs love to creep forward, that's the hunting instinct coming into play.
It sounds like you're doing a good job overall - Evan Graham's smartwork stuff is supposed to be good - I believe he learned a lot of it from Rex Carr who is the best retriever trainer ever in my opinion!
Post by: rainshadow1 on September 01, 2022, 01:04:06 PM
You are doing the right thing changing directions now that she pulls ahead like said in another post quick jerk on leash
At some point After you praised her or gave her a treat you let her go so now she thinks that’s the cue to go
I use the cue ok to let my dog go from any drills we are doing
Also an ecollar will help
Overlay the jerk on the leash with a tap on the collar
My dog now if he takes a couple steps after I stop I’ll say heel and he walks backwards to get back in position
Keep at it and be consistent
This is what I would recommend as well. Letting the dog 'off control' with that praise is the key message. I would also make sure to train the dog to sit when I stop and then every time they nosed ahead, I would stop, make them sit, then start again. Labs love to creep forward, that's the hunting instinct coming into play.
It sounds like you're doing a good job overall - Evan Graham's smartwork stuff is supposed to be good - I believe he learned a lot of it from Rex Carr who is the best retriever trainer ever in my opinion!
Sounds a little like your "release command" is getting blurred into your praise or positive affirmation. Make sure you have one, and use it ONLY to release.
Don't treat or give excessive praise (aside from a clear, positive, "good girl") during the session. Save that for later. Think very simply, and you'll be on a dog's wavelength. Treats and excessive praise ARE the end of a session!
Turning and stopping and etc are right on the track you need to be on, I'd suggest you also incorporate slowing WAY down, but not stopping. Every stop means "SIT" during the Heel, (train that) but then when she's being squirrely, slow down to where she's not sure if she's supposed to sit or not... then you're in the magical zone.... she's looking to YOU to see what she's supposed to do! She's not sure, but you're not allowing her to make any decisions. Decisions are yours, not hers. You'll see it! Then you're communicating!
Repetition, and clarity. Consistency throughout. You're doing great it sounds like to me.
Post by: GWP on September 01, 2022, 01:43:11 PM
Praise is always good. Not sure about rewarding with a treat for doing what they are supposed to be doing out of a need to obey and please you. Maybe after the end of a training session.
If they are 'food motivated' it builds muscle memory. Small treat every time. Then every other time. Then once in a while.
As long as muscle memory has set in they will keep doing it on their own, with an occasional correction as necessary, as well as all other things dog training related.
Just one of many different ways to train an animal that do not think like humans.
Post by: Pete112288 on September 02, 2022, 12:47:46 AM
She does already know instantly, when I stop, she sits, and I have done that quite a bit too. Stop, she sits, walk, she creeps out ahead, stop, etc...
This is the collar I use.
https://www.amazon.com/MayPaw-Collar-Training-Martingale-Medium/dp/B08Y15N4TW/ref=sr_1_5?crid=HSHNLNCHB2BN&keywords=slip%2Bcollar&qid=1662104327&sprefix=slip%2Bcollar%2Caps%2C340&sr=8-5&th=1
I would say my mistake so far has been too much high energy excited praise. I give her calm reassuring praise most of the time, but once she continues doing the right thing without constant commands and makes me real happy about it, I would get down on her level, get excited, etc. Then she would loose her bearing completely. I had not connected the dots on that one till now.
Post by: huntnfmly on September 02, 2022, 06:21:31 AM
I do the same as you tho getting excited about his training and praise him too excited then I have to calm him down😂