Post by: Buckhunter24 on January 04, 2023, 11:18:41 AM
Post by: hal on January 04, 2023, 11:25:10 AM
Post by: hal on January 04, 2023, 11:26:11 AM
Post by: Houndhunter on January 04, 2023, 11:30:47 AM
Post by: Skillet on January 04, 2023, 11:33:29 AM
I'm going to go on record with saying - if you're truly in thick grizz/coastal brown country, any gun in your hand is better than the ideal one in a holster. I require crew to carry the Win SXP Marine defender 12guage loaded with slugs/buckshot if we're on a brown bear island and they want to go to shore. Black bear island, it's up to them to bring it or not.
I've never had crew bring their own sidearm, but if they had a 9mm they could mag dump with accuracy that would be something I would consider going along with, but would prefer to see a short-barreled big bore revolver in a chest holster, to be honest.
:twocents:
Post by: Buckhunter24 on January 04, 2023, 11:37:18 AM
Post by: Gringo31 on January 06, 2023, 08:28:36 AM
I wouldn't over think it. You do the best you can and march on with life. :twocents: People need to be prepared but they WAY over worry about bear attacks IMO.
Post by: Fidelk on January 06, 2023, 08:46:04 AM
Post by: mountainman on January 06, 2023, 08:48:18 AM
I assumed you are talking a handgun? I'm not sure some of the differences in caliber matter that much (357,40,41,44,45,10mm etc). The noise maker part is second only to your awareness. IF you were to really need it to stop a bear where bullet size and velocity matter, you're probably hozed anyway.1 in a 100, 1 in 1,000?
I wouldn't over think it. You do the best you can and march on with life. :twocents: People need to be prepared but they WAY over worry about bear attacks IMO.
Point being, it happens. As we hear on the news quite often. Yes, don’t overthink it, but yes, be prepared, even if 1 in 10,000…
Post by: CaNINE on January 06, 2023, 12:18:28 PM
Post by: jrebel on January 06, 2023, 12:42:46 PM
454 casull can also shoot 45 long colt
460 can shoot 454 casull, 45 long colt (verify with the actual pistol manufacturer but should be able to).
My 454 is very manageable with 325 grain bear loads. I have shot it one handed without a problem. It is very accurate as well. Love it.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 06, 2023, 12:44:13 PM
Post by: Wetwoodshunter on January 06, 2023, 01:18:09 PM
I forget who makes my chest rig. (Gunfighters inc)
Post by: KFhunter on January 06, 2023, 01:34:15 PM
(Especially cheap ones)
Carry spray :chuckle:
Or work hard with a competent instructor and build your way up to a BFR or BFA
We don't even know what species of bear :dunno:
Post by: KFhunter on January 06, 2023, 01:36:24 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 06, 2023, 01:46:14 PM
Wheel gun for reliability. 454 casull or 460 smith would be my pick. I like both because you can shoot lighter loads for every other aspect of life and the big ones for alaska brown bear.
454 casull can also shoot 45 long colt
460 can shoot 454 casull, 45 long colt (verify with the actual pistol manufacturer but should be able to).
My 454 is very manageable with 325 grain bear loads. I have shot it one handed without a problem. It is very accurate as well. Love it.
I do like that .460 SW
I got some trigger time on one shooting varied loads. .
OP said "cheap"
Post by: Wetwoodshunter on January 06, 2023, 02:16:43 PM
I'd be looking at a Glock 40 (or 20) 15 + 1 in 10mm and a Kenai chest rig.
This is a good recommendation. @brushcrawler I think carried a 40 with buffalo bore ammo when we did a caribou hunt. Killed ptarmigans dead… lol
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 06, 2023, 02:47:20 PM
My two go to guns are a xdm 10mm and a 629 44mag in bear country.
Post by: Igor on January 06, 2023, 02:53:44 PM
Post by: TeacherMan on January 06, 2023, 04:35:32 PM
We ended up gathering our stuff up, getting the clients the 1.5 miles back to the truck and then went back in to skin him and pack him out. It made for a long night.
Post by: Buckhunter24 on January 06, 2023, 05:53:02 PM
Post by: Ingwe on January 06, 2023, 06:50:20 PM
Post by: Born2late on January 06, 2023, 07:25:09 PM
I know, nobody recommends that. I’ve done testing with mine and at 25 yards I could shoot through a cow’s forehead. I’ve talked to guys on Kodiak that carry the bigger wheel guns that had to empty the gun into the bear to kill them. Another guy there had to shoot one multiple times in his kitchen with his shotgun.
I think accuracy is the biggest variable that varies. Meaning some guys shoot well under pressure and a lot of guys talk about shooting well under pressure. I think repetitive training on using the same guy accurately is important so when it comes down to it your not thinking your reacting without hesitation.
Also in each of these situations the position of the bear when they fired has a lot to do with it. You take what you can get for a shot if it’s coming at you.
On a side note I’ve had a road kill deer and elk that had to be put down by sheriffs. The deer he shot in the back of the head at less than 10 yds. The bullet never penetrated the skull, hit it right at the base of the neck.
The elk, the sheriff shot from 10 yds 3 times. One shot grazed its neck on top one missed and the last he shot her in the head. I would assume they have more range time than most, we had to coach the guy on which angle to shoot the deer.
I’ve heard some guys say on a full charge bear to drop to one knee because if your aiming at the head by the time you pull the trigger you will hit them in the butt.
Post by: 30.06 on January 06, 2023, 09:40:21 PM
S&W 460V in a chest rig.
Great big + 1
Practice is required.
I had an FN 5.7 and they are great for many uses, but would worry about a deflection or bullet blowing up if the angle was not just right. I didn't think mine with blue box ammo would be enough for a WA bear that was mad enough to kill me, and then when ammo dried up for a while I parted with it. Sure can get 'em squeezed off quick with one of those but would trust a revolver to never hiccup in the rain. Seems like many fatalities result after several extremely rare happenstances occur bing, bang boom. Luck can run out at any time, slowly or all at once. I believe the largest bear was killed by a Native with a .22 short rifle that had seen some serious abuse. But she knew exactly where the thin part of the skull was. One shot at a few inches range. Outcome could all depend who's luck is running stronger at that instant in time.
A well-oiled rifle with deep penetrating type bullets would be the best option if seriously expecting trouble. It could be a rusty beater as long as it's reliable and you shoot it well.
Hard to hit anything moving quick with a handgun unless a person has had years of practice time.
Excellent points have been made about accuracy, placement and familiarity with the firearm. I always heard aim for the base of the tongue. Probably would be a questionable shoot unless at pissing distance anyways. Of course, most charges are meant to scare off something in their territory. But they do kill and even eat people. Some interior bears can soak up a heckuva lot of lead before expiring. They are the alpha predator of that part of the world.
For the OP, it's really about what you can handle proficiently or could get a good deal on. Double action revolver in case you do get chewed on. Have a fun trip up North!
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on January 06, 2023, 10:20:21 PM
https://www.guns.com/firearms/handguns/revolver/taurus-444-ultra-lite-titanium-44-magnum-revolver-6-rounds-4-barrel-1-8-lbs-blue-used?p=99699&soldout=1 (https://www.guns.com/firearms/handguns/revolver/taurus-444-ultra-lite-titanium-44-magnum-revolver-6-rounds-4-barrel-1-8-lbs-blue-used?p=99699&soldout=1)
Post by: TeacherMan on January 06, 2023, 10:40:45 PM
Find one of these, load it with some Montana HSM 305 grain bear loads and call it a day. This pistol/round is hard to beat in many ways. I’m still in awe with the power of this pistol and round combo.
https://www.guns.com/firearms/handguns/revolver/taurus-444-ultra-lite-titanium-44-magnum-revolver-6-rounds-4-barrel-1-8-lbs-blue-used?p=99699&soldout=1 (https://www.guns.com/firearms/handguns/revolver/taurus-444-ultra-lite-titanium-44-magnum-revolver-6-rounds-4-barrel-1-8-lbs-blue-used?p=99699&soldout=1)
That thing kicks like a mule being stung in the a…. by a swarm of bees 🤣
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on January 06, 2023, 10:57:36 PM
Find one of these, load it with some Montana HSM 305 grain bear loads and call it a day. This pistol/round is hard to beat in many ways. I’m still in awe with the power of this pistol and round combo.
https://www.guns.com/firearms/handguns/revolver/taurus-444-ultra-lite-titanium-44-magnum-revolver-6-rounds-4-barrel-1-8-lbs-blue-used?p=99699&soldout=1 (https://www.guns.com/firearms/handguns/revolver/taurus-444-ultra-lite-titanium-44-magnum-revolver-6-rounds-4-barrel-1-8-lbs-blue-used?p=99699&soldout=1)
That thing kicks like a mule being stung in the a…. by a swarm of bees 🤣
You ain’t kidding. This pistol/round combo is not for plinking :chuckle:
Post by: spin05 on January 07, 2023, 12:33:07 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 07, 2023, 08:23:21 AM
Post by: Buckhunter24 on January 07, 2023, 09:34:16 AM
When the OP stated thick bear country. Where are we talking? What kind of bear? Is he just fearful of black bears? If it's in grizzly country you would want a gun you are comfortable shooting. Also one that you can easily deploy to fire if it is indeed that thick of brush. Maybe a semi auto to put more lead out if you missed with the first shot. What I am saying it depends on the circumstances also you are most likely to be in.
Its a contract requirement for a job located on the Yukon River never carried a gun while working before and want to buy something that makes sense. No worried about black bears not particularly worried about brown but better safe than sorry
Post by: Buckhunter24 on January 07, 2023, 09:36:21 AM
Find one of these, load it with some Montana HSM 305 grain bear loads and call it a day. This pistol/round is hard to beat in many ways. I’m still in awe with the power of this pistol and round combo.
https://www.guns.com/firearms/handguns/revolver/taurus-444-ultra-lite-titanium-44-magnum-revolver-6-rounds-4-barrel-1-8-lbs-blue-used?p=99699&soldout=1 (https://www.guns.com/firearms/handguns/revolver/taurus-444-ultra-lite-titanium-44-magnum-revolver-6-rounds-4-barrel-1-8-lbs-blue-used?p=99699&soldout=1)
I like it :tup:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 07, 2023, 09:48:01 AM
Sounds good. Hunted the Yukon near Galena, and have a friend that moose hunts there every year. He hunts and packs a 45/70 guide gun for its compactness and knock down power. Only had issues with bears when meat was in camp otherwise they were skitterish. Is better to be safe.When the OP stated thick bear country. Where are we talking? What kind of bear? Is he just fearful of black bears? If it's in grizzly country you would want a gun you are comfortable shooting. Also one that you can easily deploy to fire if it is indeed that thick of brush. Maybe a semi auto to put more lead out if you missed with the first shot. What I am saying it depends on the circumstances also you are most likely to be in.
Its a contract requirement for a job located on the Yukon River never carried a gun while working before and want to buy something that makes sense. No worried about black bears not particularly worried about brown but better safe than sorry
Post by: Buckhunter24 on January 07, 2023, 09:49:56 AM
Sounds good. Hunted the Yukon near Galena, and have a friend that moose hunts there every year. He hunts and packs a 45/70 guide gun for its compactness and knock down power. Only had issues with bears when meat was in camp otherwise they were skitterish. Is better to be safe.When the OP stated thick bear country. Where are we talking? What kind of bear? Is he just fearful of black bears? If it's in grizzly country you would want a gun you are comfortable shooting. Also one that you can easily deploy to fire if it is indeed that thick of brush. Maybe a semi auto to put more lead out if you missed with the first shot. What I am saying it depends on the circumstances also you are most likely to be in.
Its a contract requirement for a job located on the Yukon River never carried a gun while working before and want to buy something that makes sense. No worried about black bears not particularly worried about brown but better safe than sorry
Nice, I'm hoping to find some good paddles up there
Post by: JWBINX on January 07, 2023, 12:05:13 PM
Sounds good. Hunted the Yukon near Galena, and have a friend that moose hunts there every year. He hunts and packs a 45/70 guide gun for its compactness and knock down power. Only had issues with bears when meat was in camp otherwise they were skitterish. Is better to be safe.When the OP stated thick bear country. Where are we talking? What kind of bear? Is he just fearful of black bears? If it's in grizzly country you would want a gun you are comfortable shooting. Also one that you can easily deploy to fire if it is indeed that thick of brush. Maybe a semi auto to put more lead out if you missed with the first shot. What I am saying it depends on the circumstances also you are most likely to be in.
Its a contract requirement for a job located on the Yukon River never carried a gun while working before and want to buy something that makes sense. No worried about black bears not particularly worried about brown but better safe than sorry
:yeah: Or just carry a .338 Win Mag!
Post by: Alchase on January 08, 2023, 02:00:37 PM
https://concealednation.org/2018/10/handguns-for-bear-defense-a-study-by-caliber/
Post by: Brushcrawler on January 08, 2023, 02:28:33 PM
Enjoy your trip up north!
Post by: Caseknife on January 08, 2023, 03:43:12 PM
I did install Hogue grips, seem to tame recoil better and more secure fit in the hand. It is a hand full to shoot with Buffalo Bore 300 gr hardcast, but easy to get used to. I carry it in Wyoming in grizzly country while elk hunting, that and bear spray if I am not the hunter and carrying a rifle. If I am the hunter with the rifle then I also carry bear spray in a chest holder.
Really depends on the type of work you will be doing. Will you be walking through the brush along the streams with equipment in your hands doing stream research, handgun in a chest rig. Doing something that leaves your hands free, defensive shotgun with slugs or lever big-bore rifle would be the right choice.
Post by: Night goat on January 09, 2023, 07:53:07 PM
Why? Aside from the macho cool factor who the hell can get a follow up shot after hellish recoil in a split second moment of absolute horror when one of these beasts makes up its mind on ending you? I'm sure some
Can get one or two shots off but how accurate is your follow up shot going to be? Plus you only have 5 rounds, 6 if you don't cowboy load....
When that bear charges and knocks you down and you're dazed on your back and have about 6 seconds before it's standing on you pressing it's claws into your rib cage chewing on your skull or ripping flesh from your leg, the last thing I want to be concerned about is being able to hang onto a giant hand cannon getting the last or second to last shot off before my
Life is over.
Glock 20 or 40 with 10mm +p+ hard cast Buffalo bores gives you way more options. It's the new popular thing to carry up there for a reason. 17+1 with 44mag like performance is hard to beat.
12 gauge is hard to beat too
But nothing says macho like a hand cannon in a chest holster...... seriously though that's the #1 giveaway to a tourist or somebody new to the back country is a shiny new hand cannon in a chest holster.....
Ammo is hard to find up there....12 gauge is everythwere to the point it's guaranteed to be anywhere you go.
Best gun is the one your most comfortable with and can get more than one or two rounds off with
I commercial fish up there so that's what I've personally seen
I have a huge opinion on this subject to be frank, but it's just my opinion.
My experience? Had an accident with a single action 44 bear gun some years back and almost lost my leg.
Take my words with a grain of salt but it's what I stand by
I fully understand the physics of what it takes to stop a bear, you want a huge chunk of lead moving as fast as possible to not penetrate but absolutely immobilize it, and penetration alone doesn't always do the job, and that a bear can keep fighting for minutes after it's medically dead. You want to hit it hard as possible ie blowing out a shoulder blade or similar, to stop it in its track....they are nasty animals but one needs to be realistic in a real life scenario.....
When do attacks happen the most? low light conditions, and in thick brush. I want to be able to get as many shots off as possible and trust me the 10mm works, I've talked to a state worker who has killed 3 bears in southeast working at fish hatcheries. Pop a light on a 10mm, and with 17+1 or whatever it is, I'd feel a helluva lot better than 5 or 6 from a big bore,
The exception being a 12 gauge. 12 gauge wrote the book on bear protection next to 45-70.... big bore hand cannons have their place but I'd hate to be in a life and death scenario with one knowing there were other options. Not bashing others choices, as I said the best gun is the one you're most comfortable with
But personally I'd take a Glock 10mm with a compensated barrel, a high power flashlight and tritium radio active night sights with my next choice being my 12 gauge
And again this is just my opinion
Post by: Remnar on January 09, 2023, 08:22:26 PM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on January 09, 2023, 08:43:17 PM
Post by: b23 on January 10, 2023, 10:52:18 AM
Big bore hand cannons are useless in my opinion
Why? Aside from the macho cool factor who the hell can get a follow up shot after hellish recoil in a split second moment of absolute horror when one of these beasts makes up its mind on ending you? I'm sure some
Can get one or two shots off but how accurate is your follow up shot going to be? Plus you only have 5 rounds, 6 if you don't cowboy load....
10mm +p+ hard cast Buffalo bores gives you way more options. It's the new popular thing to carry up there for a reason. 17+1 with 44mag like performance is hard to beat.
I had a 4in S&W 500 mag and unless you have Jerry Miculek like skills, it would be nearly useless. They're fun to shoot, for short amounts of time, because they truly are a fricken beast of a hand cannon and they are thunderous but even with their weight, which is significant, the recoil is so substantial it takes a very long time to get back on target. I mostly only shot the 275gr Barnes XPB in my 500 and the recoil was, damn, so I could only imagine what shooting some of the 400-500+ grain hard cast ammo would be like. My dad has a S&W 460 w/8 3/8 barrel and you can tame it down quite a bit with 45LC ammo but it's a huge handgun and weighs 5+ lbs loaded.
I shot a SA 454 Casull at the range once and not only would I, never, want a SA only revolver as any kind of defense weapon but it was easily the most miserable handgun I've ever shot. It was fairly light-ish and the grips were small and had sharp corners that made shooting it very unpleasant. Some of the other DA/SA 454's are probably better.
Big bear defense handgun, I'd agree, something like G20 or G40 would be a much better choice. I'm no particular fan of Glocks but I've had a few, one of them being a G20, you won't need to sell a kidney to buy one, they pretty much always function properly and go bang with any and all ammo. They shoot plenty straight for use as a defense weapon and the aftermarket for them is extensive as well as they are very easy to modify. The recoil of a semi auto will be substantially less than any of the big bore hand cannons and with +P loads the recoil is more than you like, swapping recoil springs to tame it down a bit is easy peasy and can be done in just a couple minutes. Under a bad situation where you had to shoot it one handed, with a little practice, something like a G20/40 is pretty easy to do but shooting any of the big bore revolvers one handed, yeah not so much. Also, Glocks don't have any kind of external/manual safety so once you have a round chambered, it's just a matter of drawing it from the holster and it's game on for 16 rounds. I sold my G20 a couple years ago and bought a Sig 1911 10mm. I like shooting the 1911 10mm better but as a bear defense handgun I would take the G20 over the 1911 because of the much higher capacity, no safety to think about as well as once the Glock has one chambered it's ready to go as soon as you pull the trigger.
Having had both, with regard to big bear defense, I would take my G20 over my S&W 500 every single time. If I was hunting bears from a tree stand or something like that then I'd pick the hand cannon over something like a G20 or 40.
It's kind of ironic because I sold my 4in 500 to a guy about a year ago that was going to Alaska to work as his buddies guide's assistant the does Griz hunts. I talked to him quite a bit about maybe it wouldn't be the best choice to use but he was insistent a 4in S&W 500mag was exactly what he wanted so I sold it to him.
I always kind of thought something like a Remington TAC-14 w/arm brace shooting 00 or 000 buckshot would be a pretty good option for a relatively compact shotgun setup but even with the mag tube modified you'll only have six rounds but even with only six rounds of magnum 00 or 000 buck it should make for some pretty stout medicine at short range.
Post by: jrebel on January 10, 2023, 12:41:40 PM
Two take away points....
1. Big bore revolvers can and are a very effective tool if you....
2. Practice. You have to practice with any pistol / firearm to the point that shooting it becomes an unconscious act.
Post by: RGB on January 11, 2023, 10:42:18 AM