Post by: slavenoid on January 11, 2023, 10:06:31 PM
Of course the available truck and trailer options I find are over the gvwr thresholds. I know lowering gvwr is an option, but I don't know how to do it. Do I need to have the manufacturer lower it or can I do that when registering?
Post by: Skillet on January 11, 2023, 10:55:07 PM
I didn't have a choice to retro-rate my combo at that point, since I was given a warning and needed to submit all the doc's to prove I brought it all up to code to avoid a court date. So, I had to get the whole DOT program going for my small operation.. For a single vehicle, it is really onerous. Getting it set up, commercial insurance, drug testing protocol, etc... Avoid at all costs unless you absolutely need it, imho. You may since you're doing interstate work, I'm not 100% sure. @3boys, he knows trucking.
I did look into derating my truck, impossible for all intents and purposes. The easiest option I saw was going to a trailer with a 6k axle under it and keeping it in WA only.
:twocents:
*Edited to add:. If you look anything like this without DOT#'s, you're likely going to get pulled over. The LEO was cool, told me the running genny on the tongue was the giveaway. He gave me a warning, which is actually worse than the ticket in the long run. The warning never drops off your DOT record, but a ticket will be dropped after a certain period of time.
Post by: Special T on January 11, 2023, 11:07:11 PM
Feel free to PM me
Post by: slavenoid on January 12, 2023, 06:11:25 AM
I dealt with this in the fish delivery biz, a huge PIA. My 3/4 ton was rated 10k gvwr, so my trailer couldn't be rated for more than 6k gvwr, for a max gcvwr of 16k. I had tandem 3500# axles on the trailer I rented so my gcvwr was 17k, and I got nailed outside of Wenatchee for not having a DOT #. But at least I had my chains crossed!
I didn't have a choice to retro-rate my combo at that point, since I was given a warning and needed to submit all the doc's to prove I brought it all up to code to avoid a court date. So, I had to get the whole DOT program going for my small operation.. For a single vehicle, it is really onerous. Getting it set up, commercial insurance, drug testing protocol, etc... Avoid at all costs unless you absolutely need it, imho. You may since you're doing interstate work, I'm not 100% sure. @3boys, he knows trucking.
I did look into derating my truck, impossible for all intents and purposes. The easiest option I saw was going to a trailer with a 6k axle under it and keeping it in WA only.
:twocents:
*Edited to add:. If you look anything like this without DOT#'s, you're likely going to get pulled over. The LEO was cool, told me the running genny on the tongue was the giveaway. He gave me a warning, which is actually worse than the ticket in the long run. The warning never drops off your DOT record, but a ticket will be dropped after a certain period of time.
That's interesting am I misreading that the Washington 16k limit is only a problem if your trailer is over 10k?
Post by: Rob on January 12, 2023, 06:31:19 AM
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/threads/truck-trailer-ideas-to-tow-14-000-and-be-under-26-000-pounds.462127/page-3#post-6446607
Sounds like there are exceptions in WA for farm work if that is applicable.
Post by: Skillet on January 12, 2023, 08:19:40 AM
That's interesting am I misreading that the Washington 16k limit is only a problem if your trailer is over 10k?
I believe so, yes. It says that your GCVWR is a Max of 16k, and the trailer can't have a GVWR of 10k. If you could find a truck with a GVWR of 6K or less that has a tow rating of 10K, that's your huckleberry. I don't know of anything in the class 3 segment that meets those specs though.
I forgot to @SpecialT - he's probably driven his commercial combo more miles in reverse than most of us have towed a trailer all together :chuckle: I'll defer to him on all things DOT & Under 26k
Post by: Special T on January 12, 2023, 08:28:59 AM
I dealt with this in the fish delivery biz, a huge PIA. My 3/4 ton was rated 10k gvwr, so my trailer couldn't be rated for more than 6k gvwr, for a max gcvwr of 16k. I had tandem 3500# axles on the trailer I rented so my gcvwr was 17k, and I got nailed outside of Wenatchee for not having a DOT #. But at least I had my chains crossed!
I didn't have a choice to retro-rate my combo at that point, since I was given a warning and needed to submit all the doc's to prove I brought it all up to code to avoid a court date. So, I had to get the whole DOT program going for my small operation.. For a single vehicle, it is really onerous. Getting it set up, commercial insurance, drug testing protocol, etc... Avoid at all costs unless you absolutely need it, imho. You may since you're doing interstate work, I'm not 100% sure. @3boys, he knows trucking.
I did look into derating my truck, impossible for all intents and purposes. The easiest option I saw was going to a trailer with a 6k axle under it and keeping it in WA only.
:twocents:
*Edited to add:. If you look anything like this without DOT#'s, you're likely going to get pulled over. The LEO was cool, told me the running genny on the tongue was the giveaway. He gave me a warning, which is actually worse than the ticket in the long run. The warning never drops off your DOT record, but a ticket will be dropped after a certain period of time.
That's interesting am I misreading that the Washington 16k limit is only a problem if your trailer is over 10k?
Which state will it be plated and which state will most the driving be done? What your wanting to do is likely possible IF the vehicle was plated, stayed in the state where ever your DL is from. When you cross a state line it becomes FEDERAL law not Or or WA law. When they do catch you, and they will, it is much worse than what Skillet had happen. You wont have a CDL , Log book, Medical card. They will put you out of service which means you vehicle has to get towed because I doubt you gonna want to leave your equipment on the side of the road for 24 hours.
I have not driven as much as a CDL semi driver per miles. I know PLENTY about the difference between INTRA and INTERstate commercial travel.
Post by: slavenoid on January 12, 2023, 08:45:22 AM
Post by: Special T on January 12, 2023, 09:01:55 AM
Washington plates and dl which would also travel into Oregon. So if our company has two trailers one in each state and it didn't leave the state we might be good. Example drive my Washington plated truck into Oregon pickup trailer and leave it in Oregon before heading home. Might just be easier to get legit at that point.
I have a customer that used 1 ton dual trucks out of Oregon that come across the 205 never really wandered far. He got pinched a couple of times so purchased a new 3/4 ton put air bags on it and he was good.
No way exists to do what you are asking legally. You can only be discrete and plead confusion when you get caught.
Post by: Widgeondeke on January 12, 2023, 09:20:22 AM
Recently had one that had his trailer rating lowered so he didn't need a CDL and limit his driving hours. He was out of Texas though, so not 100% if WA would allow that :dunno:
Post by: Knocker of rocks on January 12, 2023, 10:01:04 AM
Any commercial vehicle that crosses the state line that has more than 10k GVWR requires a DOT# and CDL this also applies to a combination truck and trailer. ANY truck and trailer will surpass the 10K mark. HOWEVER in Washington you don't have to cross a scale with a GVWR less than 16k and OR 20K. You can use a 3/4 ton and run back between the states no problem legal. You cannot do it legally with a trailer.
Feel free to PM me
An interstate vehicle over 10K but under 26K requires a DOT number, record keeping and Med card, but not a CDL
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 12, 2023, 10:20:47 AM
Post by: Special T on January 12, 2023, 10:25:15 AM
Any commercial vehicle that crosses the state line that has more than 10k GVWR requires a DOT# and CDL this also applies to a combination truck and trailer. ANY truck and trailer will surpass the 10K mark. HOWEVER in Washington you don't have to cross a scale with a GVWR less than 16k and OR 20K. You can use a 3/4 ton and run back between the states no problem legal. You cannot do it legally with a trailer.
Feel free to PM me
An interstate vehicle over 10K but under 26K requires a DOT number, record keeping and Med card, but not a CDL
I Shouldnt be shocked if the rules have changed. I have not been pulled over and inspected in quite some time so perhaps I need to dig deep again.
But non of this applies to a person unless it’s a business, or hauling for hire right?
Correct but Ive heard of strange licensing rules that require private folks to pay tonnage. on 1 tons non commercial use. All mine are commercial so i cannot speak first hand.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on January 12, 2023, 10:34:33 AM
Post by: slavenoid on January 12, 2023, 11:16:21 AM
Okay so combined in Washington is 16k which might be doable for me.
Crossing state lines is 10,000 which is impossible.
So I'm at a minimum going to need usdot numbers right? Now to prevent cdl keep it under 26,000?
Post by: Buckhunter24 on January 12, 2023, 11:49:27 AM
Post by: bearhunter99 on January 12, 2023, 12:07:42 PM
Post by: Special T on January 12, 2023, 12:39:03 PM
I know for a fact that the LEO misunderstands the law a lot. I’ve ran into this several times when even the WSP made a production of non CDL drivers driving air brake equipped non CDL truck.
It also doesn't help you when you show them the RCW that they are wrong despite how nicely you do it.
I miss read your statement. If you don't need a CDL, and I belive you are wrong, it has to have some kind mileage from the point of origin limitation. But CDL drivers that stay with in 120? Miles of home base don't have to fill out a long book as they are just doing local deliveries.
I was scared your statement was INTRA.
I appreciate the feedback but I was hoping for some good news guys.
Okay so combined in Washington is 16k which might be doable for me.
Crossing state lines is 10,000 which is impossible.
So I'm at a minimum going to need usdot numbers right? Now to prevent cdl keep it under 26,000?
You mostly have it right. But one of the catch 22 is that 16k is Gross vehicle weight rating but you need to pay tonnage on the truck for the total. Up here you could be totally legit under gvwr but if you are over your 14k of tonnage you will get pinched. Having to display a DOT number towing a trailer will get extra emphesis and scrutiny put on you.
CVE officers get to check off a complete inspection by pulling your electrical brake break away switch which is much easier than for a full blown Semi. I have learn and paid for my lessonss.
Post by: buckfvr on January 12, 2023, 01:11:08 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on January 12, 2023, 01:34:02 PM
I know for a fact that the LEO misunderstands the law a lot. I’ve ran into this several times when even the WSP made a production of non CDL drivers driving air brake equipped non CDL truck.
It also doesn't help you when you show them the RCW that they are wrong despite how nicely you do it.
I miss read your statement. If you don't need a CDL, and I belive you are wrong, it has to have some kind mileage from the point of origin limitation. But CDL drivers that stay with in 120? Miles of home base don't have to fill out a long book as they are just doing local deliveries.
I was scared your statement was INTRA.I appreciate the feedback but I was hoping for some good news guys.
Okay so combined in Washington is 16k which might be doable for me.
Crossing state lines is 10,000 which is impossible.
So I'm at a minimum going to need usdot numbers right? Now to prevent cdl keep it under 26,000?
You mostly have it right. But one of the catch 22 is that 16k is Gross vehicle weight rating but you need to pay tonnage on the truck for the total. Up here you could be totally legit under gvwr but if you are over your 14k of tonnage you will get pinched. Having to display a DOT number towing a trailer will get extra emphesis and scrutiny put on you.
CVE officers get to check off a complete inspection by pulling your electrical brake break away switch which is much easier than for a full blown Semi. I have learn and paid for my lessonss.
You’re right about the miles from base.
I’m right about only needing a CDL if the vehicle exceeds the well known CDL limits. A driver of a 24K straight truck would never need a CDL.