Post by: huntnnw on January 25, 2023, 11:15:35 PM
Post by: Scruffy on January 26, 2023, 03:53:56 AM
Post by: Timberstalker on January 26, 2023, 04:34:18 AM
We need to be baiting bears and running them with hounds.
We also need to be running lions with hounds.
Any little bit helps, but a major management change must occur in the Blues or it’s going to be too late.
Post by: huntnnw on January 26, 2023, 05:59:57 AM
I think that’s a great idea, however, I think we are past the point of “boot hunting” management.
We need to be baiting bears and running them with hounds.
We also need to be running lions with hounds.
Any little bit helps, but a major management change must occur in the Blues or it’s going to be too late.
I totally agree with everything above, but thats never going to happen in WA.
Post by: huntnnw on January 26, 2023, 06:01:46 AM
How would the WDFW know if the bear or cougar came out of the Blues to award the point? I guess they could have a separate season but that would likely shorten the regular bear/cougar seasons we have now. I am not against the idea just don't know how it would be policed to award the points. Maybe expand it state wide if you kill a bear or cougar you get a point.
They could issue area specific tags that are only valid in certain gmus to qualify...ID has 2 different tag system
Post by: Sundance on January 26, 2023, 07:18:58 AM
Post by: MeepDog on January 26, 2023, 07:41:57 AM
Post by: Special T on January 26, 2023, 07:49:58 AM
Can the tribes use dogs/bait in the ceded and U&A lands? Could they bring in contracted houndsmen (non tribal) to their ceded/U&A for predator management under their wildlife management?
They Could but the Tribes in that area arnt really inclined. They seem to like predators for some reason. Remember Indians are not a homogeneous group. It likely wouldnt take much encouragement from some tribes.
Director Kelly increased the bag limit to 2 in the blues. That is about the extent of his power. I think it was good that he did something, but like others have said... we are past boot hunting being effective.
Post by: Timberstalker on January 26, 2023, 08:05:24 AM
Serious question.
Surely WDFW has authority to deem it an emergency and dispatch additional predator eradication measures.
Post by: Special T on January 26, 2023, 08:13:22 AM
At what point does the dire situation in the blues become an emergency?
Serious question.
Surely WDFW has authority to deem it an emergency and dispatch additional predator eradication measures.
According to the game management plan it is an emergency, they are 25% below objective. Normally that would meant that they would use hounds and cull the culprit in this case cats. BUT they dont have that option, and Im not sure what other options would be effective.
Post by: hunter399 on January 26, 2023, 09:18:07 AM
How would the WDFW know if the bear or cougar came out of the Blues to award the point? I guess they could have a separate season but that would likely shorten the regular bear/cougar seasons we have now. I am not against the idea just don't know how it would be policed to award the points. Maybe expand it state wide if you kill a bear or cougar you get a point.:yeah:
I agree hard to say where it came from.
I know it's a proven facts of what's happening in the Blues.
It should be a sign of what's happening all across the state.
Hunter recruitment is the key,take someone with you bear or cougar hunting.
Post by: hunter399 on January 26, 2023, 10:10:53 AM
It's just like the two tags for black bear.
Our harvest rate hasn't really went up that much.
It's all about the amount of hunters.
You can give out 5 tags per hunter ,but if the same amount of hunters go to the field,harvest rate stays the same.
We all know this next statement to be true.
If the same amount of hunters that hunt deer/elk hunted predators we wouldn't have a predator problem.
Longer seasons,higher bag limits is a start.
Honestly I'm not even sure if WDFW could incentive any predator hunt ,under there own hunting contest rules.
Any kind of incentive,turns it into a contest with prizes ,which they stoped a long time ago.
Post by: KFhunter on January 26, 2023, 10:11:00 AM
Got shot down pretty quickly, basically ridiculed
Post by: KFhunter on January 26, 2023, 10:13:00 AM
My idea was the Predator Incentive Point System. PIPSBad idea. The last thing this state needs to do is further complicate and expand it's point system. If you want to incentive predator harvest - do something like the foundation for wildlife management and raise private funds to incentive or reimburse those who legally harvest predators.
Shooting various predators would give incentive points to something like a quality buck or elk, the idea is that if a hunter has killed enough predators they've earned that huge buck in a quality unit, during a quality hunt window. The details could be worked out later, I'd just like to get this idea of PIPS out there floating around.
Post by: hunter399 on January 26, 2023, 10:14:51 AM
If you search for "PIP" or "predator incentive points" you'll find some old threads by your's truly
Got shot down pretty quickly, basically ridiculed
I'm sure being from my hood.
You remember Clark's predator contest each year.
Thought it was a brand new rifle or something for the grand prize.
Post by: buckfvr on January 26, 2023, 11:20:12 AM
Post by: KFhunter on January 26, 2023, 12:39:14 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on January 26, 2023, 03:13:45 PM
A change like this would require commission approval. And point systems are already a convoluted ponzi scheme in this state, so creating a new point incentives system (while well meaning) still exacerbates the inequity and stupidity of points in the first place.My idea was the Predator Incentive Point System. PIPSBad idea. The last thing this state needs to do is further complicate and expand it's point system. If you want to incentive predator harvest - do something like the foundation for wildlife management and raise private funds to incentive or reimburse those who legally harvest predators.
Shooting various predators would give incentive points to something like a quality buck or elk, the idea is that if a hunter has killed enough predators they've earned that huge buck in a quality unit, during a quality hunt window. The details could be worked out later, I'd just like to get this idea of PIPS out there floating around.
As I noted years ago...follow the F4WM model...provide reimbursement to successful blues predator harvest from a private organization...cuts the commission out of it and does give some incentive. It's the only realistic option for incentives...anything requiring gov't approval is a non-starter...might as well ask for baiting and hounds.
Post by: Special T on January 26, 2023, 03:20:51 PM
A change like this would require commission approval. And point systems are already a convoluted ponzi scheme in this state, so creating a new point incentives system (while well meaning) still exacerbates the inequity and stupidity of points in the first place.My idea was the Predator Incentive Point System. PIPSBad idea. The last thing this state needs to do is further complicate and expand it's point system. If you want to incentive predator harvest - do something like the foundation for wildlife management and raise private funds to incentive or reimburse those who legally harvest predators.
Shooting various predators would give incentive points to something like a quality buck or elk, the idea is that if a hunter has killed enough predators they've earned that huge buck in a quality unit, during a quality hunt window. The details could be worked out later, I'd just like to get this idea of PIPS out there floating around.
As I noted years ago...follow the F4WM model...provide reimbursement to successful blues predator harvest from a private organization...cuts the commission out of it and does give some incentive. It's the only realistic option for incentives...anything requiring gov't approval is a non-starter...might as well ask for baiting and hounds.
:yeah:
But this will ruffle some feathers. Do it for cats. Let tribal members participate as they can run hounds. If we could get a bunch of Yakima doing it the whole East side of the cascades could be cleaned up.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 26, 2023, 03:33:01 PM
Whatever is proposed outside the rules by the director has to be approved by the Wildlife Commission. Aint gonna happen. They want what's happening to happen. They'd speed up the destruction if they could.At what point does the dire situation in the blues become an emergency?
Serious question.
Surely WDFW has authority to deem it an emergency and dispatch additional predator eradication measures.
According to the game management plan it is an emergency, they are 25% below objective. Normally that would meant that they would use hounds and cull the culprit in this case cats. BUT they dont have that option, and Im not sure what other options would be effective.
Post by: KFhunter on January 26, 2023, 05:32:49 PM
A change like this would require commission approval. And point systems are already a convoluted ponzi scheme in this state, so creating a new point incentives system (while well meaning) still exacerbates the inequity and stupidity of points in the first place.My idea was the Predator Incentive Point System. PIPSBad idea. The last thing this state needs to do is further complicate and expand it's point system. If you want to incentive predator harvest - do something like the foundation for wildlife management and raise private funds to incentive or reimburse those who legally harvest predators.
Shooting various predators would give incentive points to something like a quality buck or elk, the idea is that if a hunter has killed enough predators they've earned that huge buck in a quality unit, during a quality hunt window. The details could be worked out later, I'd just like to get this idea of PIPS out there floating around.
As I noted years ago...follow the F4WM model...provide reimbursement to successful blues predator harvest from a private organization...cuts the commission out of it and does give some incentive. It's the only realistic option for incentives...anything requiring gov't approval is a non-starter...might as well ask for baiting and hounds.
I wasn't revisiting the idea, I floated it, it sank :chuckle:
We need something else, I don't know that F4WM would want to do anything here other than wolves
I imagine anything of tbat nature would be harassed, threatened whatever by the state, namely inslee and his dog
Post by: Special T on January 26, 2023, 05:51:39 PM
A change like this would require commission approval. And point systems are already a convoluted ponzi scheme in this state, so creating a new point incentives system (while well meaning) still exacerbates the inequity and stupidity of points in the first place.My idea was the Predator Incentive Point System. PIPSBad idea. The last thing this state needs to do is further complicate and expand it's point system. If you want to incentive predator harvest - do something like the foundation for wildlife management and raise private funds to incentive or reimburse those who legally harvest predators.
Shooting various predators would give incentive points to something like a quality buck or elk, the idea is that if a hunter has killed enough predators they've earned that huge buck in a quality unit, during a quality hunt window. The details could be worked out later, I'd just like to get this idea of PIPS out there floating around.
As I noted years ago...follow the F4WM model...provide reimbursement to successful blues predator harvest from a private organization...cuts the commission out of it and does give some incentive. It's the only realistic option for incentives...anything requiring gov't approval is a non-starter...might as well ask for baiting and hounds.
I wasn't revisiting the idea, I floated it, it sank :chuckle:
We need something else, I don't know that F4WM would want to do anything here other than wolves
I imagine anything of tbat nature would be harassed, threatened whatever by the state, namely inslee and his dog
I talked to Justin and he would love to do something in WA but the politics are not conducive and he felt he could do more good expanding to places like Montana and Wyoming
Post by: KFhunter on January 26, 2023, 06:09:08 PM
I would have liked to go to the dinner but I gotta work
Post by: Britt-dog on January 26, 2023, 08:11:26 PM
Whatever is proposed outside the rules by the director has to be approved by the Wildlife Commission. Aint gonna happen. They want what's happening to happen. They'd speed up the destruction if they could.At what point does the dire situation in the blues become an emergency?
Serious question.
Surely WDFW has authority to deem it an emergency and dispatch additional predator eradication measures.
According to the game management plan it is an emergency, they are 25% below objective. Normally that would meant that they would use hounds and cull the culprit in this case cats. BUT they dont have that option, and Im not sure what other options would be effective.
Unfortunately this is correct. If anyone thinks there will be any positive change in this state under the current administration with these commissioners your crazy.
Post by: KFhunter on January 26, 2023, 08:12:28 PM
we can dream up all the stuff we want, but until Inslee is gone we're getting soaked pizzin into the wind here fella's