Post by: cpawlowski19 on April 10, 2023, 08:46:45 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: hunter399 on April 10, 2023, 09:49:16 PM
Idaho, Wyoming and Utah are reporting higher than average snow packs and subsequently higher than expected winter kill statistics. Has anyone heard anything or seen projections for Washington?I have no statistic for Washington.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Our biologists will say they are just fine.
My personal opinion may be different.
I believe we are at a 50/50 or mixed bag or whatever you want to call it.
Cause in low elevation winter grounds where deer have some type of supplemental feeding.
Seems like deer and elk are doing great.
Glass half full here.....
Go to any high elevation area ,3feet or more of super hard snow.
Not one track,no deer,no elk,nothing.
Now you have to take into consideration ,did those animals go down lower to winter,or did they get stuck in the mountains.
With that said I can only speak for areas I've been this year already.
Washington is not as bad as these other states.
Animals that got stuck in the mountains probably didn't do well. Washington my opinion most likely had a normal winter die off. With higher elevations being more serious.
Post by: cpawlowski19 on April 10, 2023, 09:55:17 PM
Thanks for the opinion - I guess we’ll see when areas open for scouting later in the spring.Idaho, Wyoming and Utah are reporting higher than average snow packs and subsequently higher than expected winter kill statistics. Has anyone heard anything or seen projections for Washington?I have no statistic for Washington.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Our biologists will say they are just fine.
My personal opinion may be different.
I believe we are at a 50/50 or mixed bag or whatever you want to call it.
Cause in low elevation winter grounds where deer have some type of supplemental feeding.
Seems like deer and elk are doing great.
Glass half full here.....
Go to any high elevation area ,3feet or more of super hard snow.
Not one track,no deer,no elk,nothing.
Now you have to take into consideration ,did those animals go down lower to winter,or did they get stuck in the mountains.
With that said I can only speak for areas I've been this year already.
Washington is not as bad as these other states.
Animals that got stuck in the mountains probably didn't do well. Washington my opinion most likely had a normal winter die off. With higher elevations being more serious.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: hunter399 on April 10, 2023, 09:57:33 PM
Idaho, Wyoming and Utah are reporting higher than average snow packs and subsequently higher than expected winter kill statistics. Has anyone heard anything or seen projections for Washington?One other thing to consider with these other states.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not the depth of snow,but late spring,no green up,late snow on the winter grounds.
They can pile any depth in the mountains,late spring and no green,low temps,low elevation snow is the killer.
5 months of winter is pretty ruff.
Post by: huntnnw on April 10, 2023, 10:12:07 PM
Post by: cpawlowski19 on April 10, 2023, 10:18:35 PM
to just ask about WA in general is far too broad. Way too many different areas and species to break down.My main thought is high buck regions - but I didn’t want to focus on those as being specific on locations has gotten me in trouble on forums in the past….
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: baldopepper on April 10, 2023, 10:44:37 PM
Post by: huntnphool on April 10, 2023, 10:48:39 PM
Post by: cpawlowski19 on April 10, 2023, 11:13:12 PM
The wolf winter kill has been devastating! Look for substantial decreases in ungulate hunting permits to compensate for wolf sustainability! :rolleyes:That could be a thing this year….three tag categories - resident, non-resident and predator
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: hunter399 on April 11, 2023, 06:17:37 AM
Animals don't get stuck in the mtns. They get down outta there. I think we've pretty well dodged the bullet in Washington. What is getting those states is there was no escaping the winter. They got early snow, then freezing weather and the cycle continued from November until now. Here early snow and then some melt and then a little more snow but continued to get some clearing between storms. Our storms were not nearly as heavy as those state have had either nor did it get down as low into the wintering areas. They also had terrible drought conditions going into the winter that kept normal browse in poor condition all summer and fall. Kind of a perfect pattern for bad winter kill. Road kill has also been terrible in those states.
It kinda a phrase that I use.
"Getting stuck in the mountains."
Yes I agree all animals will migrate .
It the energy and lack of food,if they waited to long to migrate.
Big storms,4 feet of snow in a 24 hour period.
Deer or elk have to migrate now through 4 feet of snow 5-10 miles down.
Even when they hit winter grounds ,low elevation,there as good as dead. They used to much ,to get to a spot where they can survive.
Another phrase I used was
"Supplemental feeding"
That's not just people feeding,that's anytime they are eating stuff that is not browse.
Field that's not plowed,breaking into hay sheds,livestock feed areas,an old bale left in the field.
Snowplowed along the edge of a road and there is some grass showing.
Anything man made ,that will cause them to eat stuff that isn't browse.
Post by: hunter399 on April 11, 2023, 06:34:36 AM
The wolf winter kill has been devastating! Look for substantial decreases in ungulate hunting permits to compensate for wolf sustainability! :rolleyes:Well that's a double edge sword for sure.
Our biologists say our wolf population only went up last year by a few wolves.
So no tag reductions needed right.
At the same time we all know they are wrong,alot more than they claim.
Cat and mouse game.
So how do we manage ungulate numbers for wolves ,when the number of wolves stays the same every year.
They will wait ,hit us with a big ,dramatic ,number of wolves down the road. Then try to reduce tags after most of the deer and elk are gone anyway.
It's a well known fact that they don't give a @$!# about NE Washington. The state's resources here are just a cash cow for them. They are gonna milk it till it's powder milk.
Or till all hunting in this corner is permit only ,and start milking for more powder milk.
Post by: hunter399 on April 11, 2023, 06:58:29 AM
Any ungulate above 3500-4000 elevation.
That didn't migrate soon enough,dead . guaranteed in my area.
Washington has very diverse habitat and climate from one end to the other. So I can only say for my area.
You can also bet those same deer/elk that did migrate had predators in there tracks the whole way down.
Post by: cpawlowski19 on April 11, 2023, 08:42:02 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: buckfvr on April 11, 2023, 10:29:24 AM
Post by: hunter399 on April 11, 2023, 10:43:18 AM
Drought conditions we had in 2021.
A bunch of ungulate die off.
I like to think they manage healthy herds for sustainable hunting purposes. Maybe at one time they did years ago.
Just not the case any more.
I wouldn't expect much,or the truth as buckfvr said.
Post by: RC on April 11, 2023, 11:37:37 AM
Post by: buckfvr on April 11, 2023, 01:06:59 PM
Everything I've been seeing is that our snow packs for nearly every area of the state is 100% of normal.
Key word there being "normal", so dont expect above normal or abnormal winter kill. :twocents:
Post by: milldozer on April 14, 2023, 09:26:50 AM
Post by: boneaddict on April 14, 2023, 10:59:58 AM
Post by: buckfvr on April 14, 2023, 12:00:55 PM
Wolves killed more deer than the snowpack did
Way more :tup:
Post by: bigmacc on May 06, 2023, 07:07:46 AM
Wolves killed more deer than the snowpack did:yeah:
Throw in cougars and bears and our deer and elk are getting hammered even after the snow is gone. 24/7/365
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on May 06, 2023, 08:12:21 AM
Post by: idaho guy on May 06, 2023, 09:30:11 PM
Animals don't get stuck in the mtns. They get down outta there. I think we've pretty well dodged the bullet in Washington. What is getting those states is there was no escaping the winter. They got early snow, then freezing weather and the cycle continued from November until now. Here early snow and then some melt and then a little more snow but continued to get some clearing between storms. Our storms were not nearly as heavy as those state have had either nor did it get down as low into the wintering areas. They also had terrible drought conditions going into the winter that kept normal browse in poor condition all summer and fall. Kind of a perfect pattern for bad winter kill. Road kill has also been terrible in those states.
It kinda a phrase that I use.
"Getting stuck in the mountains."
Yes I agree all animals will migrate .
It the energy and lack of food,if they waited to long to migrate.
Big storms,4 feet of snow in a 24 hour period.
Deer or elk have to migrate now through 4 feet of snow 5-10 miles down.
Even when they hit winter grounds ,low elevation,there as good as dead. They used to much ,to get to a spot where they can survive.
Another phrase I used was
"Supplemental feeding"
That's not just people feeding,that's anytime they are eating stuff that is not browse.
Field that's not plowed,breaking into hay sheds,livestock feed areas,an old bale left in the field.
Snowplowed along the edge of a road and there is some grass showing.
Anything man made ,that will cause them to eat stuff that isn't browse.
Big sudden storms have trapped deer and elk in the high country. That does happen occasionally 👍 and results obviously in massive winter kill
Post by: zwickeyman on May 07, 2023, 06:57:20 AM
Its not the snow pack, its the snow in wintering areas and they are 2 different things
Post by: Ironhead on May 07, 2023, 07:12:38 AM
IMHO
Its not the snow pack, its the snow in wintering areas and they are 2 different things
:tup: