Post by: Ocurtis on September 29, 2023, 09:16:27 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on September 29, 2023, 09:29:36 AM
Post by: Ocurtis on September 29, 2023, 09:30:31 AM
True spike unit, no. Spike unit, click, BOOM!
ok thanks, thats what I figured!
Post by: Stein on September 29, 2023, 09:32:24 AM
Quote
True Spike Bull Antler Restrictions: Neither antler of bull elk taken can have branching originating more than four inches above where the antlers attach to the skull. Under the true-spike restriction, taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding length of point, or point of origination, is an infraction under RCW 77.15.160. All other types of violations of the true-spike restriction are subject to current penalties and assessments under RCW 77.15.410 and 77.15.420.
Looks like a true spike to me unless I'm missing a branch up top due to the angle or my eyesight.
Post by: Ocurtis on September 29, 2023, 09:37:50 AM
Here is the WAC:QuoteTrue Spike Bull Antler Restrictions: Neither antler of bull elk taken can have branching originating more than four inches above where the antlers attach to the skull. Under the true-spike restriction, taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding length of point, or point of origination, is an infraction under RCW 77.15.160. All other types of violations of the true-spike restriction are subject to current penalties and assessments under RCW 77.15.410 and 77.15.420.
Looks like a true spike to me unless I'm missing a branch up top due to the angle or my eyesight.
for True spike, the rule is "... taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding lenght of point, or point of origination, is an infraction."
to me, this is clear as mud and enough to make me choose to pass in a true spike unit -
Post by: Woodchuck on September 29, 2023, 09:45:02 AM
:yeah:Here is the WAC:QuoteTrue Spike Bull Antler Restrictions: Neither antler of bull elk taken can have branching originating more than four inches above where the antlers attach to the skull. Under the true-spike restriction, taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding length of point, or point of origination, is an infraction under RCW 77.15.160. All other types of violations of the true-spike restriction are subject to current penalties and assessments under RCW 77.15.410 and 77.15.420.
Looks like a true spike to me unless I'm missing a branch up top due to the angle or my eyesight.
for True spike, the rule is "... taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding lenght of point, or point of origination, is an infraction."
to me, this is clear as mud and enough to make me choose to pass in a true spike unit -
Post by: boneaddict on September 29, 2023, 09:50:07 AM
To me, this is exactly how I interpret it True spike unit, no. Spike unit, click, BOOM!
Post by: ganghis on September 29, 2023, 10:05:25 AM
Post by: Ocurtis on September 29, 2023, 10:06:45 AM
I guess my reading of that is since the brow tines originate within 4 inches of the skull plate that it's still a true spike. And that you'd need a second 1 inch or greater tine 4 inches or more up it's main to make it illegal (typically at the top of the antler). Is that not the case?
the way I read it, the origination does not matter for true spike. if there is a second point, regardless of length of point or origination of point, it is no longer considered a true spike.
Post by: Woodchuck on September 29, 2023, 10:07:41 AM
I guess my reading of that is since the brow tines originate within 4 inches of the skull plate that it's still a true spike. And that you'd need a second 1 inch or greater tine 4 inches or more up it's main to make it illegal (typically at the top of the antler). Is that not the case?You may be right, but the wording of the true spike reg is so convoluted, there's no way I take that chance.
Post by: Bob33 on September 29, 2023, 10:15:38 AM
True Spike Bull Antler Restrictions: Neither antler of bull elk taken can have branching originating more than four inches above where the antlers attach to the skull. Under the true-spike restriction, taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding length of point, or point of origination, is an infraction under RCW 77.15.160.
Part (A) is true: “Neither antler can have branching originating more than four inches above where the antlers attached to the skull.”
Part (B) is a problem, because the elk has two points on each side when the eye guards are counted: “Under the true-spike restriction, taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding length of point, or point of origination, is an infraction under RCW 77.15.160.
Post by: NOCK NOCK on September 29, 2023, 01:45:20 PM
A couple answers have been, “ just don’t be posting pics all over the inter web”
For me, spike/boom. True. No
Post by: huntnfmly on September 29, 2023, 01:57:43 PM
The branch of points is at the hairline that’s legal in both scenarios
Post by: Stein on September 29, 2023, 03:13:16 PM
I wouldn’t consider it a true spike.
True Spike Bull Antler Restrictions: Neither antler of bull elk taken can have branching originating more than four inches above where the antlers attach to the skull. Under the true-spike restriction, taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding length of point, or point of origination, is an infraction under RCW 77.15.160.
Part (A) is true: “Neither antler can have branching originating more than four inches above where the antlers attached to the skull.”
Part (B) is a problem, because the elk has two points on each side when the eye guards are counted: “Under the true-spike restriction, taking an elk that has two points on one side or antler points within one inch of the definitions regarding length of point, or point of origination, is an infraction under RCW 77.15.160.
Part A defines a point as something beyond 4" from where it originates. Thus, the one in the pic is a 1x1, the eye guard is not relevant. If you counted every point, part A would be unnecessary. I read it as the points that count are the main beam point (assuming main beam is longer than 4") and any point that originates from a branch more than 4" up the main beam.
The only other explanation is that the antler branches but doesn't have a second point. I don't think that is possible.
Post by: CarbonHunter on September 29, 2023, 03:35:23 PM
Post by: Ocurtis on September 29, 2023, 04:31:38 PM
It would be awesome if this could be asked to WDFW
Post by: Gentrys on September 29, 2023, 05:16:46 PM
Post by: blindluck on September 30, 2023, 08:51:11 PM
Post by: HillHound on October 01, 2023, 06:41:46 AM
As stated before on other threads over the years, it shouldn't be so hard to figure out if a bull in the field is legal or not. Come on WDFW, simplify the rules.:yeah:
The true spike rule should almost be considered entrapment. It’s so hard to tell sometimes, I have had to let Many legal elk walk when I Am only 90% sure. And what is the point? We aren’t saving big bulls to breed because the natives are killing them anyways. And even if we wanted to save the big bulls for the natives why does it have to be true spike? Are we going to decimate the herds in these areas if we shoot all the two by ones? I see it just like all the other convoluted rules that are made just for an opportunity to fine people who make an honest mistake and keep the coffers full. I would love for somebody in the know to enlighten me how I am off basis and in fact true spike only hunting and natives slaughtering big bulls is by far the best management program out there otherwise this is just a money grab. If the rules are to clear you don’t have anybody accidentally breaking them and you can’t keep your paychecks coming
Post by: MAVsled on October 01, 2023, 01:15:43 PM
General spike only, Yes.
I shot one like this, spikes weren't as tall as the elk pictured.
Just a normal eastern WA spike bull, but eye guards on each antler, each eg-point measuring 2 & 3 inches.
Was field checked by a WDFW game warden.
I was alarmed as he measured from the BASE of the skull, below the hairy nub, then up to where the eyeguard started.
3 & 3/4"....whew!
Post by: Dan-o on October 01, 2023, 01:29:48 PM
I'd shoot that bull in a true spike unit.
I don't see any points originating more than 4" from the base.
Post by: blindluck on October 01, 2023, 02:49:01 PM