Post by: Ocurtis on September 29, 2023, 02:30:43 PM
Post by: MADMAX on September 29, 2023, 02:46:41 PM
Post by: Ocurtis on September 29, 2023, 02:47:10 PM
Already a couple of threads on it
oh I guess Im late to the party
Post by: Alchase on November 08, 2023, 04:30:14 AM
'If any grizzly bear comes around my place, I'm shooting it,' one resident told federal officials
Dozens of local residents in northern Washington recently voiced their strong opposition to a Biden administration plan to release grizzly bears, an apex predator, in a federally-managed forest area near their communities.
More than 200 local residents attended a public comment session in northern Washington hosted by the Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) and National Parks Service (NPS), with roughly 50 speaking in opposition of the federal grizzly bear proposal and just six voicing their support. Rep. Dan Newhouse, R-Wash., who represents local communities, was among the speakers voicing concerns about the plan's potential consequences.
"As a farmer, I worry not only about the bears destroying my crops, but for the safety and well-being of myself, my family, and my on-farm hands," Newhouse remarked during the session. "It is clear you all know that grizzlies can and probably will move out of the zone in which you drop them in, yet rather than letting common sense prevail, are continuing to push forward with this dangerous plan."
"So tell me, what is the agency’s plan for dealing with crop loss and livestock depredation that is inevitable from the introduction of these predators? What is the timeline for issuing lethal permits? And how much will citizens have to lose before they can defend themselves from this predator in their backyard?" he continued.
In late September, the NPS and FWS proposed the rule and draft environmental impact statement opening the door to release the apex predator in North Cascades National Park in northern Washington along the U.S.-Canada border. The proposal was cheered by left-wing eco groups but criticized by local lawmakers like Newhouse and residents.
Under the proposal, the federal government would release up to seven grizzly bears annually into the North Cascades ecosystem over the course of the next five to 10 years. The federal government's overarching goal would be to establish a grizzly bear population of roughly 200 bears in the coming decades.
"There's not the habitat up there for the grizzly bear. There never has been and there never will be," one resident said during the comment session last week, according to video obtained by Fox News Digital. "So, you're going to put grizzly bears there, what are they going to do? They're going to get right out in the winter. They're going to go right down in Mazama and they're going to go down in the rest of the area because they're not going to stay up there. So, I'm opposed to it completely."
"If you're not willing to accept responsibility for what goes down in this county from the actions that you take, you have no business taking those actions," another resident said, addressing the federal officials in attendance.
The federal plan released in September includes three options, two that would involve actively restoring populations of the threatened grizzly bear species and one "no action" alternative that would maintain current management practices. As part of the announcement, the public is invited to comment on the proposed actions through mid-November.
Hugh Morrison, the regional FWS director, said grizzly bears are part of the region's heritage and restoring them could be done in a way that ensures communities, residents and animals "can all coexist peacefully."
According to the NPS, Grizzly bears occupied the North Cascades and served as an "essential part of the ecosystem" for thousands of years. However, in the 20th century, as a result of aggressive hunting practices, the species was driven into near extinction and the last confirmed sighting of a grizzly bear in the North Cascades ecosystem was in 1996.
"Nobody needs grizzlies, nobody needs wolves," another resident added during the event last week. "And the thing we need even less than that is the Department of Fish and Wildlife. These guys know nothing about fish, they don't care about wildlife. All they want to do is ruin the most important people, which is farmers and ranchers who grow our food. There's no reason for these people, there's no reason for grizzly bears."
"If any grizzly bear comes around my place, I'm shooting it," he said.
Another resident, an 80-year-old man who said he frequently hunts in the area, said the federal officials who proposed the grizzly release plan are "super book smart, but dumber than hell" when it comes to on-the-ground conditions facing citizens.
While the plan would release grizzly bears near communities, according to the Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife, unintentionally or intentionally killing a grizzly bear in the state can result in massive fines and penalties since the species is listed as federally threatened and state-listed as endangered.
"We have previously provided extensive comments opposing grizzly bear reintroduction into our local communities," the commissioners of Chelan County, Washington, which is located near North Cascades, wrote to the NPS in December. "We continue to oppose grizzly bear reintroduction given the likely negative impacts to public safety, economic development, recreation opportunities and the overall livelihood of our rural communities."
"The federal agencies leading this effort have generally failed to address these concerns and have failed to engage in any meaningful way Chelan County and other neighboring counties in the proposed grizzly bear restoration area," they added in their letter.
Plans to reintroduce grizzly bears to the North Cascades dates back to the Obama administration. Then, after significant state opposition led by Newhouse, the Trump administration concluded that grizzly bears would not be restored in the ecosystem.
Former Interior Secretary David Bernhardt noted in July 2020 that grizzly bears are not in danger of extinction and that his agency could manage populations across their existing range.
However, late last year, following extensive litigation from environmental groups, the Biden administration announced it would again review whether to move forward with restoration, a process that led to the proposal in September.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/local-residents-explode-biden-officials-plan-release-grizzly-bears-near-communities
Post by: zwickeyman on November 08, 2023, 04:37:53 AM
This guy nailed it
Post by: Weatherby92 on November 08, 2023, 04:39:20 AM
Absolutely, i enjoyed reading that first thing in the morning.
Post by: Sandberm on November 08, 2023, 05:41:49 AM
Another resident, an 80-year-old man who said he frequently hunts in the area, said the federal officials who proposed the grizzly release plan are "super book smart, but dumber than hell" when it comes to on-the-ground conditions facing citizens.
This guy nailed it
I was just going to copy and paste that exact quote. You beat me too it.
I will add that it helps that Newhouse is being so vocal about this
Post by: bigtex on November 08, 2023, 05:42:18 AM
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Post by: Bob33 on November 08, 2023, 06:59:22 AM
Some of us remember when just a few years ago Trump's first Interior Secretary (Ryan Zinke) was also in support of putting grizzlies in the North Cascades. Had Zinke not quit, the relocation plan may have already begun.That's true although as I recall Zinke backed away when faced with opposition and reason. Will Biden?
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
"Zinke’s broken promise on North Cascades grizzlies stings"
https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/zinkes-broken-promise-on-north-cascades-grizzlies-stings/
...
Despite voicing his strong support, Zinke continued to stall, delay and undermine the recovery process. Work on the plan came to a standstill after he issued a “stop work” order in August. This isn’t the first time the secretary has put work on hold. The entire process has advanced by fits and starts ever since he took office. These needless delays have wasted time and money that could have been spent on bringing these American icons home to the Cascade Mountains.
After telling the National Park Service and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to halt all work, Zinke laid out no plan for restarting work on the grizzly-recovery plan.
...
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 08, 2023, 08:03:06 AM
Am I wrong in thinking that grizzlies have been sighted recently?
Post by: jackelope on November 08, 2023, 08:10:13 AM
From the article in the original OP's post: "According to the announcement, grizzly bears occupied the North Cascades and served as an "essential part of the ecosystem" for thousands of years. However, in the 20th century, as a result of aggressive hunting practices, the species was driven into near extinction and the last confirmed sighting of a grizzly bear in the North Cascades ecosystem was in 1996."
Am I wrong in thinking that grizzlies have been sighted recently?
Those recent grizzlies, as well as I can remember, have not been in the cascades.
Post by: timberfaller on November 08, 2023, 08:56:24 AM
Seen this same tempo from all the Salmon listing/irrigation public meetings held in the Methow decades ago!! Still pulling the same ole you know what!! :bash:
They've gotten pretty good at their "craft", the public can get as mad as they want, WE are not going to win against their "agenda's". Newhouse doesn't have the power behind him to put up any kind of opposition. He'll be fighting people who want to live in a perceived utopia, AKA: DC and Portland/Seattle and college grads.
Sorry to be negative, but, been there, done that!
Post by: MtnMuley on November 08, 2023, 09:03:41 AM
The main problem with this attempted reintroduction is the lack of habitat and food they require. Hence the reason they're so scarce there these days in the first place.
Post by: JWBINX on November 08, 2023, 09:07:36 AM
There's been a few sightings over the last 20 years in the North Cascades by some "in my opinion" credible sources.
The main problem with this attempted reintroduction is the lack of habitat and food they require. Hence the reason they're so scarce there these days in the first place.
I agree!!
I think the habitat is there, but no sufficient food source.
Post by: Rainier10 on November 08, 2023, 09:29:03 AM
Post by: GASoline71 on November 08, 2023, 11:19:14 AM
From the article in the original OP's post: "According to the announcement, grizzly bears occupied the North Cascades and served as an "essential part of the ecosystem" for thousands of years. However, in the 20th century, as a result of aggressive hunting practices, the species was driven into near extinction and the last confirmed sighting of a grizzly bear in the North Cascades ecosystem was in 1996."
Am I wrong in thinking that grizzlies have been sighted recently?
Those recent grizzlies, as well as I can remember, have not been in the cascades.
That sighting in '96 might be the one spotted near Rockport.
I like how they say "as a result of aggressive hunting practices". From who??? Grizz has never been open in WA as far as I know. Even at the turn of the 19th century. Totally misleading.
Gary
Post by: Special T on November 08, 2023, 01:21:04 PM
The Pasayten river has several valleys that open to the north and ridge out to the south. Look at a map. The Fed's lie about it because the bears exist in this state at least part of the year in Wa. They do so in places that are hard to access and not easily seen by the public. Probably the best place for them. I'm of the opinion that folks should work hard to expose this truth to help derail this nonsense.
Post by: LDennis24 on November 08, 2023, 02:01:35 PM
There's so much good habitat bears are moving into town!
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7020555
Post by: LDennis24 on November 08, 2023, 02:03:12 PM
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/grizzly-bears-human-interactions-1.6994167
Post by: mountainman on November 09, 2023, 07:51:08 PM
Ive seen 3, 2 in the Pasayten, one in the valley bottom along the Methow. Late 70’s mid 80’s.From the article in the original OP's post: "According to the announcement, grizzly bears occupied the North Cascades and served as an "essential part of the ecosystem" for thousands of years. However, in the 20th century, as a result of aggressive hunting practices, the species was driven into near extinction and the last confirmed sighting of a grizzly bear in the North Cascades ecosystem was in 1996."
Am I wrong in thinking that grizzlies have been sighted recently?
Those recent grizzlies, as well as I can remember, have not been in the cascades.
They are and have been there.
Post by: jackelope on November 09, 2023, 08:41:24 PM
I be seen 3, 2 in the Pasayten, one in the valley bottom along the Methow. Late 70’s mid 80’s.From the article in the original OP's post: "According to the announcement, grizzly bears occupied the North Cascades and served as an "essential part of the ecosystem" for thousands of years. However, in the 20th century, as a result of aggressive hunting practices, the species was driven into near extinction and the last confirmed sighting of a grizzly bear in the North Cascades ecosystem was in 1996."
Am I wrong in thinking that grizzlies have been sighted recently?
Those recent grizzlies, as well as I can remember, have not been in the cascades.
They are and have been there.
I’m not questioning any cascades grizzly sightings from 20-30 years ago. I was responding to his question regarding recent sightings. That seems to have been missed by a few questioning my comment. Are you aware of any recent sightings of them in the last … let’s say 5 years? There have been a few in the NE recently…. this year. I’m aware that they’ve been seen in the Cascades 20 years ago.
Post by: mountainman on November 09, 2023, 10:42:48 PM
I be seen 3, 2 in the Pasayten, one in the valley bottom along the Methow. Late 70’s mid 80’s.From the article in the original OP's post: "According to the announcement, grizzly bears occupied the North Cascades and served as an "essential part of the ecosystem" for thousands of years. However, in the 20th century, as a result of aggressive hunting practices, the species was driven into near extinction and the last confirmed sighting of a grizzly bear in the North Cascades ecosystem was in 1996."
Am I wrong in thinking that grizzlies have been sighted recently?
Those recent grizzlies, as well as I can remember, have not been in the cascades.
They are and have been there.
I’m not questioning any cascades grizzly sightings from 20-30 years ago. I was responding to his question regarding recent sightings. That seems to have been missed by a few questioning my comment. Are you aware of any recent sightings of them in the last … let’s say 5 years? There have been a few in the NE recently…. this year. I’m aware that they’ve been seen in the Cascades 20 years ago.
Last 10 years, yes..
None in the last 5, but haven’t been in the area or around those that spend time there. Life has been busy. But yes, I’m sure they are still there👍
Post by: BeerBugler on November 10, 2023, 05:42:52 AM
Topics are merged and under bear hunting for now. Try to keep this on topic and not get too political.
The Federal government is forcing an apex predator on its citizenry. How is that not political and why wouldn’t we discuss it? Things are getting strange around here.
Post by: fishngamereaper on November 10, 2023, 06:07:40 AM
I saw one 96/97 in the Alpine lks. Took pics and talked to a State bio who told me with a wink and a nod there are no grizzlies in WA. Didn't want to impart fear into the crest hiking crowds.
I know one was seen by reputable people in the chiwawa valley 10-12 year's ago
Saw pretty convincing pics from up by Tiffany mnt from about 5 years ago.
Then you have the verified one in whatcom co last year.
This whole idea of " reintroduction" is insanity. There's no barrier keeping them out. Or in.
If they wanted to inhabit our State in greater numbers they would of a long time ago.
Post by: mountainman on November 10, 2023, 08:06:45 AM
Since you agree grizz were in the north cascades 10-20-30 years ago, but aren’t now, what reason do you attribute that too?I be seen 3, 2 in the Pasayten, one in the valley bottom along the Methow. Late 70’s mid 80’s.From the article in the original OP's post: "According to the announcement, grizzly bears occupied the North Cascades and served as an "essential part of the ecosystem" for thousands of years. However, in the 20th century, as a result of aggressive hunting practices, the species was driven into near extinction and the last confirmed sighting of a grizzly bear in the North Cascades ecosystem was in 1996."
Am I wrong in thinking that grizzlies have been sighted recently?
Those recent grizzlies, as well as I can remember, have not been in the cascades.
They are and have been there.
I’m not questioning any cascades grizzly sightings from 20-30 years ago. I was responding to his question regarding recent sightings. That seems to have been missed by a few questioning my comment. Are you aware of any recent sightings of them in the last … let’s say 5 years? There have been a few in the NE recently…. this year. I’m aware that they’ve been seen in the Cascades 20 years ago.
Maybe people don’t want to report them for certain reasons. Or they do report sighting, but that’s as far as it goes and given no acknowledgment maybe?
Post by: GOcougsHunter on November 10, 2023, 09:10:04 AM
This whole idea of " reintroduction" is insanity. There's no barrier keeping them out. Or in.
If they wanted to inhabit our State in greater numbers they would of a long time ago.
This is truth. My brain hurts when I think of the amount of money, time and resources which are going to be spent on this.
Post by: Stein on November 10, 2023, 09:10:46 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 10, 2023, 09:18:28 AM
Since you agree grizz were in the north cascades 10-20-30 years ago, but aren’t now, what reason do you attribute that too?I be seen 3, 2 in the Pasayten, one in the valley bottom along the Methow. Late 70’s mid 80’s.From the article in the original OP's post: "According to the announcement, grizzly bears occupied the North Cascades and served as an "essential part of the ecosystem" for thousands of years. However, in the 20th century, as a result of aggressive hunting practices, the species was driven into near extinction and the last confirmed sighting of a grizzly bear in the North Cascades ecosystem was in 1996."
Am I wrong in thinking that grizzlies have been sighted recently?
Those recent grizzlies, as well as I can remember, have not been in the cascades.
They are and have been there.
I’m not questioning any cascades grizzly sightings from 20-30 years ago. I was responding to his question regarding recent sightings. That seems to have been missed by a few questioning my comment. Are you aware of any recent sightings of them in the last … let’s say 5 years? There have been a few in the NE recently…. this year. I’m aware that they’ve been seen in the Cascades 20 years ago.
Maybe people don’t want to report them for certain reasons. Or they do report sighting, but that’s as far as it goes and given no acknowledgment maybe?
After Jackelope posted his comment, I couldn't find news of any sightings after the one he posted. I get what he's saying.
Post by: jackelope on November 10, 2023, 11:18:47 AM
Topics are merged and under bear hunting for now. Try to keep this on topic and not get too political.
The Federal government is forcing an apex predator on its citizenry. How is that not political and why wouldn’t we discuss it? Things are getting strange around here.
We are discussing it.
Post by: jackelope on November 10, 2023, 11:21:49 AM
Since you agree grizz were in the north cascades 10-20-30 years ago, but aren’t now, what reason do you attribute that too?I be seen 3, 2 in the Pasayten, one in the valley bottom along the Methow. Late 70’s mid 80’s.From the article in the original OP's post: "According to the announcement, grizzly bears occupied the North Cascades and served as an "essential part of the ecosystem" for thousands of years. However, in the 20th century, as a result of aggressive hunting practices, the species was driven into near extinction and the last confirmed sighting of a grizzly bear in the North Cascades ecosystem was in 1996."
Am I wrong in thinking that grizzlies have been sighted recently?
Those recent grizzlies, as well as I can remember, have not been in the cascades.
They are and have been there.
I’m not questioning any cascades grizzly sightings from 20-30 years ago. I was responding to his question regarding recent sightings. That seems to have been missed by a few questioning my comment. Are you aware of any recent sightings of them in the last … let’s say 5 years? There have been a few in the NE recently…. this year. I’m aware that they’ve been seen in the Cascades 20 years ago.
Maybe people don’t want to report them for certain reasons. Or they do report sighting, but that’s as far as it goes and given no acknowledgment maybe?
First and foremost, I’m with you on your opinion of grizzlies here.
Im not a grizzly bear expert and I’ve only ever seen one in the woods in my life so I’m not going to pretend I’m an authority on grizzly bear biology. I’ll make an amateur hour guess that they’re not here by the dozen because there’s no food for them. The habitat in those remote places is there for them. I’m not sure what other reasons there would be, again, because I’m not a biologist or otherwise knowledgeable with the whole grizzly bear thing.
I’ll also add that I’m not saying at all that they aren’t there now. All I said that started you in on me over this was the recent sightings that made the news here were not in the cascades. They were in the NE.
Post by: LDennis24 on November 10, 2023, 12:24:18 PM
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/rare-grizzly-bear-photographed-in-north-cascades/
Post by: Stein on November 10, 2023, 01:37:35 PM
Post by: Bob33 on November 10, 2023, 01:48:08 PM
The last confirmed sighting of a grizzly bear was on Oct. 21, 2010 South of Hwy 20. Their statement is just another denial and play on words. The article here seems pretty definitive to me. It was atleast 20 miles from the border so most likely a resident bear as well.I'm checking my calendar now to see if 2010 is after 1996.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/rare-grizzly-bear-photographed-in-north-cascades/
Post by: jackelope on November 10, 2023, 05:18:58 PM
The last confirmed sighting of a grizzly bear was on Oct. 21, 2010 South of Hwy 20. Their statement is just another denial and play on words. The article here seems pretty definitive to me. It was atleast 20 miles from the border so most likely a resident bear as well.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/rare-grizzly-bear-photographed-in-north-cascades/
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231111/6ca9085b123150566cd2c00176d8ff3d.jpg)
https://www.umt.edu/grizzly-bear-recovery/grizzly-bears/biology.php#:~:text=Home%20range%20sizes%20for%20adult,up%20to%20600%20square%20miles.
Post by: LDennis24 on November 10, 2023, 06:37:12 PM
Post by: Mtnwalker on November 10, 2023, 06:55:23 PM
Sorry Jack, I was basically speaking of what the article stated. I know they travel farther than that.
Even 600 square miles is only a 27 mile circle, it wasn’t an unreasonable assumption
Post by: LDennis24 on November 10, 2023, 07:47:53 PM
Post by: hhack on November 11, 2023, 01:29:56 AM