Post by: Ocurtis on October 03, 2023, 09:39:33 AM
I am honed in on the accura guns. I like the paramount pro v 2 but am wondering if it is necessary over the accura LR-x or even MR-X considering we cant use scopes which limits range anyways.
second question is caliber. I am leaning towards a 45 caliber but wanted input on this.
thanks!
Post by: pickardjw on October 03, 2023, 09:59:30 AM
There are a lot more options for bullets in 50 cal. Just looking at muzzle-loaders.com there are (53) options in 50 cal and (6) options in 45 cal.
Post by: Ocurtis on October 03, 2023, 01:10:46 PM
45 caliber you can't hunt elk. Good reason to get the 50 cal
oh, i wondered about this but didnt see anything in the regs. why is this the 45 cal seems to have plenty of energy
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 03, 2023, 01:16:41 PM
45 caliber you can't hunt elk. Good reason to get the 50 calthis is not correct. You can absolutely use a .45 for elk .40 cal min for deer and .45 cal min for all other big game.
Post by: MeepDog on October 03, 2023, 01:17:40 PM
I have to correct myself there. I was wrong. 45 cal is the legal minimum for elk bears etc, while the minimum for deer is 40 cal. Sorry in that case 45 might be great45 caliber you can't hunt elk. Good reason to get the 50 cal
oh, i wondered about this but didnt see anything in the regs. why is this the 45 cal seems to have plenty of energy
Post by: Ocurtis on October 03, 2023, 01:18:51 PM
Post by: MeepDog on October 03, 2023, 01:19:26 PM
Beat me to it by about a minute. Whoops45 caliber you can't hunt elk. Good reason to get the 50 calthis is not correct. You can absolutely use a .45 for elk .40 cal min for deer and .45 cal min for all other big game.
Post by: bearhunter99 on October 03, 2023, 01:19:34 PM
45 caliber you can't hunt elk. Good reason to get the 50 cal
According to the game regs:
b. A muzzleloading shotgun or rife used for
deer must be .40 caliber or larger. Buckshot
size #1 or larger may be used in a smooth-bore
of .60 caliber or larger for deer.
c. A muzzleloading shotgun, rife, or handgun
used for all other big game must be .45
caliber or larger.
Post by: jrebel on October 03, 2023, 01:31:07 PM
Post by: Ocurtis on October 03, 2023, 01:34:50 PM
I'm shooting the Accura LR-X .50 cal with a 250 grain saboted bullet. I have the Western Sight on it and it shoots pretty darn flat. I am zeroed at 100 yards and it is 12-13 inches low at 200 yards. This is 100 grain by volume of Blackhorn powder and 209 primers. It is super accurate and a joy to shoot.
am I reading tht correctly that its actually a 45 caliber bullet?
Post by: Willard on October 03, 2023, 01:42:49 PM
Post by: jrebel on October 03, 2023, 01:43:37 PM
I'm shooting the Accura LR-X .50 cal with a 250 grain saboted bullet. I have the Western Sight on it and it shoots pretty darn flat. I am zeroed at 100 yards and it is 12-13 inches low at 200 yards. This is 100 grain by volume of Blackhorn powder and 209 primers. It is super accurate and a joy to shoot.
am I reading tht correctly that its actually a 45 caliber bullet?
Yes, I can't remember if it is the .451 or the .458.....I could measure. Regardless, all 50 cal muzzy's that shoot saboted bullets will shoot .45 call bullets. The actual size bullet will dictate which sabot to use with which bullet. If you buy the bullet sabot combo, it usually does not matter unless you have a tighter, or looser, bore than usual.
Hope that makes sense.
Post by: Ocurtis on October 03, 2023, 01:47:44 PM
Make sure to take a look at the Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader. It is a solid accurate muzzleloader. It can shoot up to 200 grains of powder and capable of a 300 yard shot. They are well worth the money. If you happen to go that route message me and i will point you in the rite way of what bullet and powder combo to use.
I researched that one as well, and looks like a great gun as well, seems very comparable to the CVA but is it only available in 50 cal? also, the CVA LR-X is significantly cheaper. I think the Remington better compares with the paramount
Post by: HntnFsh on October 03, 2023, 02:18:56 PM
ha, thanks. yeah I really want the 45 caliber for the flatter trajectory.
In the world of muzzleloaders and muzzleloader range trajectory would be the least of my concerns.
Post by: Ocurtis on October 03, 2023, 02:19:52 PM
ha, thanks. yeah I really want the 45 caliber for the flatter trajectory.
In the world of muzzleloaders and muzzleloader range trajectory would be the least of my concerns.
can you elaborate? I would like the ability to shoot to 200 yards. with open sights that is probably the limint
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 03, 2023, 02:23:05 PM
I tried the accura lrx .45 cal route this spring and it was an epic fail fyi. Buyer beware. A bit of googling will show you I'm not alone.Make sure to take a look at the Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader. It is a solid accurate muzzleloader. It can shoot up to 200 grains of powder and capable of a 300 yard shot. They are well worth the money. If you happen to go that route message me and i will point you in the rite way of what bullet and powder combo to use.
I researched that one as well, and looks like a great gun as well, seems very comparable to the CVA but is it only available in 50 cal? also, the CVA LR-X is significantly cheaper. I think the Remington better compares with the paramount
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 03, 2023, 02:24:15 PM
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,281062.0.html
Post by: Ocurtis on October 03, 2023, 02:26:49 PM
This thread shows my issues.
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,281062.0.html
I read this chain, and I have seen other similar comments as well as tons of comments ont he accuracy of the gun so not sure what to do.
this chain also made me want to consider the knight ultra-light
Post by: mcrawfordaf on October 03, 2023, 02:36:31 PM
Post by: jrebel on October 03, 2023, 02:40:42 PM
I also wonder if people are weighing their powder charges and not understanding how to weigh a powder charge. 100 grains by volume is likely closer to 120-130 grains by volume. If a person is weighing 150 grains of powder they are grossly overcharging their muzzy!! Point being, if someone is not well versed in muzzleloaders, they can be their own worst enemy. Buy one, put a good sight on it, work up a load and you get out their hunting. Muzzy hunting is a lot of fun.
Post by: pickardjw on October 03, 2023, 02:47:54 PM
Interesting article on .45 vs .50 cal. Not sure how old it is or if the load maximums still apply.
https://chuckhawks.com/muzzleloading_hype.htm
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 03, 2023, 02:49:36 PM
obviously my experience is a sample of one. I fancy myself a pretty understanding and patient guy. Lemons happen with literally every product on earth. What wrote me off of another cva is the fact they couldn't replace it with a functioning rifle. There's some QC issues going on there that are concerning. Their accuracy guarantee is moa for 3 shots and they couldn't produce that. 3 shots is worthless in my opinion as well. There's not enough data in 3 shots to prove any semblance of accuracy. 5 min, 7 even better, and 10 is the real proving ground.This thread shows my issues.
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,281062.0.html
I read this chain, and I have seen other similar comments as well as tons of comments ont he accuracy of the gun so not sure what to do.
this chain also made me want to consider the knight ultra-light
My first gun was a .54 cal hawkins carbine and 30 years later I still have a love affair with muzzleloaders. My knight finally gave up the ghost last year and that slick accura had me lusting. Good NV muzzy tag in my pocket this year so had to scramble to get a new muzzy after the accura debacle. Borrowed Bullblasters knight disc extreme and Coachcw's ultra light. Settled on the disc extreme because I liked the bare primer ignition it had better than the plastic jackets that the ultra light had . First range trip out using hornady 290gr boredrivers and 75gr by weight of BH209 produced a six shot .88" group and was repeatable every time out (this was with a scope). First shot was a fouling shot then they just started stacking. This is what a modern muzzleloader should do. I've shot thousands of rounds out of muzzleloaders and that KA POW never gets old 😍
Post by: wadu1 on October 03, 2023, 06:00:16 PM
Post by: Ocurtis on October 03, 2023, 06:15:54 PM
Alright, now I wan that knight ultralight. Anyone have one and have shot it? My only concern is how bad the recoil is on a 6 lb rifle
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 03, 2023, 06:26:42 PM
as I stated previous, I put a bunch of rounds through one this summer and it's not bad at all. They have a nice recoil pad that performs well. Shooting it side by side with the disc extreme I couldn't tell the difference.
Alright, now I wan that knight ultralight. Anyone have one and have shot it? My only concern is how bad the recoil is on a 6 lb rifle
Post by: Ocurtis on October 03, 2023, 06:28:54 PM
as I stated previous, I put a bunch of rounds through one this summer and it's not bad at all. They have a nice recoil pad that performs well. Shooting it side by side with the disc extreme I couldn't tell the difference.
Alright, now I wan that knight ultralight. Anyone have one and have shot it? My only concern is how bad the recoil is on a 6 lb rifle
Can you put the Williams peep sight on it? And what bullet/powder do you shoot in it?
One thing I like about the CVA is they help me be lazy and tell me what bullet and primer set up is!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 03, 2023, 06:36:37 PM
Well that works until it doesn't :chuckle: I did exactly what they said as well :oas I stated previous, I put a bunch of rounds through one this summer and it's not bad at all. They have a nice recoil pad that performs well. Shooting it side by side with the disc extreme I couldn't tell the difference.
Alright, now I wan that knight ultralight. Anyone have one and have shot it? My only concern is how bad the recoil is on a 6 lb rifle
Can you put the Williams peep sight on it? And what bullet/powder do you shoot in it?
One thing I like about the CVA is they help me be lazy and tell me what bullet and primer set up is!
I had both setup with a Williams rear peep and front sight with the inserts. They both shot amazing with a number of projectiles and both 777 and BH209 but settled on the 290gr hornady boredrivers. I chose the disc extreme solely based on the ignition system. I preferred the bare primer over the plastic disc's (personal preference as both functioned fine).
I'll be snagging a .45 cal ultralight this winter. Would have bought one sooner but the time I got the cva debacle settled it was mid summer and borrowing proven shooters seemed like a better option than starting from scratch with a new gun only being 6 weeks out from a hunt.
Post by: pickardjw on October 03, 2023, 08:24:40 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 03, 2023, 10:26:00 PM
Karl I’m confused, I thought all Knight DISC muzzies required the plastic jackets to use a 209 primer? Are you mixing up the ultra light and the DISC in your typing?You can order them with either bare primer or the plastic jackets but these were borrowed rifles as my bighorn saw serious accuracy degradation after 22 years of hard use. The disc extreme had the bare primer ignition and the ultra light had the plastic jackets. I like the bare primer better so used bullblasters disc extreme over the ultra light of coachcw. Accuracy was equally as good between both.
Post by: Dan-o on October 03, 2023, 10:55:20 PM
why are you getting a 45?
Ballistics?
Post by: JakeLand on October 04, 2023, 04:39:42 AM
yep it’s my go to and my 2nd is a disc extreme, don’t really feel recoil when I hunt but at the range it’s definitely fine I can shoot a lot and no problems
Alright, now I wan that knight ultralight. Anyone have one and have shot it? My only concern is how bad the recoil is on a 6 lb rifle
Post by: JakeLand on October 04, 2023, 04:43:34 AM
110 grains by volume blackhorn, CCI magnum 209 primers and a Barnes T-EZ 250 = dead elk every time
Post by: NorseNW on October 04, 2023, 04:56:46 AM
Alright, now I wan that knight ultralight. Anyone have one and have shot it? My only concern is how bad the recoil is on a 6 lb rifle
I'm a new muzzleloader guy. I went with Knight UL .50 and was also concerned about recoil. Definitely not bad at all. I don't have as many rounds through it as these gentlemen do but it is a very nice rifle in my opinion. It does still kick but I would describe it more as a push than a punch would get from a center fire rifle.
Post by: HntnFsh on October 04, 2023, 05:46:55 AM
Post by: Ocurtis on October 04, 2023, 06:00:06 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 04, 2023, 06:55:50 AM
Karl,because they don't have a .40 :chuckle:
why are you getting a 45?
Ballistics?
Post by: pickardjw on October 04, 2023, 08:44:53 AM
You can order them with either bare primer or the plastic jackets but these were borrowed rifles as my bighorn saw serious accuracy degradation after 22 years of hard use. The disc extreme had the bare primer ignition and the ultra light had the plastic jackets. I like the bare primer better so used bullblasters disc extreme over the ultra light of coachcw. Accuracy was equally as good between both.
Ahh I see there's a conversion kit, too bad they don't appear to offer it as a standard option. I'd rather buy a new one with the thumbhole stock and the bare 209 setup, that kit is pricey!
Ruined my muzzy deer hunt last weekend by forgetting the plastic jackets :(
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 04, 2023, 08:50:27 AM
if you look at the ultralight you can choose either optionYou can order them with either bare primer or the plastic jackets but these were borrowed rifles as my bighorn saw serious accuracy degradation after 22 years of hard use. The disc extreme had the bare primer ignition and the ultra light had the plastic jackets. I like the bare primer better so used bullblasters disc extreme over the ultra light of coachcw. Accuracy was equally as good between both.
Ahh I see there's a conversion kit, too bad they don't appear to offer it as a standard option. I'd rather buy a new one with the thumbhole stock and the bare 209 setup, that kit is pricey!
Ruined my muzzy deer hunt last weekend by forgetting the plastic jackets :(
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 04, 2023, 09:01:58 AM
I'd note too that there's absolutely nothing wrong with the plastic jackets. They functioned as intended. Just seemed like an unnecessary step :dunno: If that was my option on a gun I wanted I'd buy it and not think twice.You can order them with either bare primer or the plastic jackets but these were borrowed rifles as my bighorn saw serious accuracy degradation after 22 years of hard use. The disc extreme had the bare primer ignition and the ultra light had the plastic jackets. I like the bare primer better so used bullblasters disc extreme over the ultra light of coachcw. Accuracy was equally as good between both.
Ahh I see there's a conversion kit, too bad they don't appear to offer it as a standard option. I'd rather buy a new one with the thumbhole stock and the bare 209 setup, that kit is pricey!
Ruined my muzzy deer hunt last weekend by forgetting the plastic jackets :(
Post by: 2MANY on October 04, 2023, 09:22:57 AM
Great gun.
Post by: pickardjw on October 04, 2023, 09:54:28 AM
I'd note too that there's absolutely nothing wrong with the plastic jackets. They functioned as intended. Just seemed like an unnecessary step :dunno: If that was my option on a gun I wanted I'd buy it and not think twice.
They do function fine, just gotta remember to bring them! :chuckle:
Better to forget them last weekend closer to home than on my 5 day elk hunt this upcoming weekend. Blessing in disguise I guess. Though I wish Three Forks would carry the jackets. Nice guy, I bought some shotgun ammo from him just for entertaining me with muzzy discussion for ten minutes.
Post by: hunter_sean08 on October 04, 2023, 11:56:01 AM
Post by: Ocurtis on October 04, 2023, 11:58:08 AM
I bought an Ultra Lite .50 back in August. So far I love it after a couple of trips to the range. She gets her rookie season debut this Saturday. I opted for the plastic jacket setup as the jackets do offer a level of protection for your primer from the elements (nice for wet side elk hunts). A great addition to this gun versus the Bighorn models I've shot in the past with the plastic jackets is the bolt. That bolt action plants the primer firmly on the nipple, while also pulling it off when it's time to remove it. Pulling that jacketed primer off on the old guns was a pain. It's a breeze now. Amazing gun so far. Hopefully I can break her in properly this next week!
thank you. the ability to contact knight guns for help and questions doesnt seem super easy.
on of my questions is if I can shoot the conical plastic tipped bullets out of this gun (45 cal)
Post by: pickardjw on October 04, 2023, 12:04:55 PM
Post by: Sabotloader on October 04, 2023, 12:50:33 PM
As long as you buy the correct caliber bullet, yes you can shoot conical plastic tipped muzzleloader bullets out of a Knight muzzleloader. I've shot the Hornady SST's (saboted) and several versions of the Powerbelts (no sabot).
I REALLY like the Knight ULite
This is my Western legal ULite - I also have chnged the rear peep from an NECG to Williams FP peep. It does require some modifications.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fb3JPN1m/50-Ultra-Lite.jpg)
This my rifle season ULite
(https://i.postimg.cc/G2K6M7hj/Nitride-79.jpg)
Post by: Ocurtis on October 04, 2023, 12:59:20 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: James on October 06, 2023, 03:07:15 PM
I have a CVA Accura MR, and really like it including the fact its a break action, but like others have said there has been QC issues on the MRX and LRX line, so beware.
Post by: Ocurtis on October 06, 2023, 03:09:01 PM
I don't see the advantage of using a flatter shooting .40 or .45 cal muzzy over the more common/more options in .50 cal because of Washington's primitive sight limitation. In a state that you can use scopes, different story.
I have a CVA Accura MR, and really like it including the fact its a break action, but like others have said there has been QC issues on the MRX and LRX line, so beware.
I hear that - I just dont see any reason NOT to go with a 45 caliber.
Post by: James on October 06, 2023, 03:11:58 PM
I don't see the advantage of using a flatter shooting .40 or .45 cal muzzy over the more common/more options in .50 cal because of Washington's primitive sight limitation. In a state that you can use scopes, different story.
I have a CVA Accura MR, and really like it including the fact its a break action, but like others have said there has been QC issues on the MRX and LRX line, so beware.
I hear that - I just dont see any reason NOT to go with a 45 caliber.
More bullet options to find one that works well for you/your rifle as well as availability. Last few years has been tough in regards to getting firearms and ammo, I have two buddies that bought new rifles in 308 simply beause they could reliability get ammo for them to hunt and shoot.
Post by: Ocurtis on October 06, 2023, 03:12:41 PM
I don't see the advantage of using a flatter shooting .40 or .45 cal muzzy over the more common/more options in .50 cal because of Washington's primitive sight limitation. In a state that you can use scopes, different story.
I have a CVA Accura MR, and really like it including the fact its a break action, but like others have said there has been QC issues on the MRX and LRX line, so beware.
I hear that - I just dont see any reason NOT to go with a 45 caliber.
More bullet options to find one that works well for you/your rifle as well as availability. Last few years has been tough in regards to getting firearms and ammo, I have two buddies that bought new rifles in 308 simply beause they could reliability get ammo for them to hunt and shoot.
true, but the hardest thing to get is the powder and te primers - same problem with 45 or 50 cal
Post by: pickardjw on October 06, 2023, 03:45:11 PM
I don't see the advantage of using a flatter shooting .40 or .45 cal muzzy over the more common/more options in .50 cal because of Washington's primitive sight limitation. In a state that you can use scopes, different story.
I have a CVA Accura MR, and really like it including the fact its a break action, but like others have said there has been QC issues on the MRX and LRX line, so beware.
I hear that - I just dont see any reason NOT to go with a 45 caliber.
I'm the opposite, I don't see a reason not to go with a .50 cal :dunno:
Only 5 bullet options in .45 on muzzle-loaders.com and two are sold out...no thanks
Post by: JS444 on October 06, 2023, 07:54:58 PM
Post by: Sneaky on October 06, 2023, 08:04:45 PM
I was dissapointed in the new rifle. I hope my original accura lasts forever. So long as it continues performing as it has to this point I am done searching for muzzleloader solutions. I bought tons of different powders and bullets only to settle on the first thing I tried...federal bor-lock 270gr copper bullets over three 50gr 777 pellets w/ 209 primer :dunno:
Post by: ctwiggs1 on October 06, 2023, 08:42:43 PM
When it dies, I’ll buy a Knight Ulite.
Fantastic guns.
For bullets - sabot loader has got me hooked on LeHigh defense controlled fracture bullets. From cows to deer to 6x elk, animals are dropping consistently when smacked by them. My 300” bull made it the farthest - 30 yards or so.
Post by: James on October 08, 2023, 10:09:05 AM
I have an accura v2 that I loved so much I bought another one as a backup. The newer gun has a different front stock attachment method that felt flimsy. I also didn't realize or appreciate the detached ramrod. I like always having it attached to the gun. CVA gave me a cheesy three piece tent-pole style ramrod with a pouch thats supposed to attach to your belt instead of having the guides for ramrod installed on the barrel/forend.
I was dissapointed in the new rifle. I hope my original accura lasts forever. So long as it continues performing as it has to this point I am done searching for muzzleloader solutions. I bought tons of different powders and bullets only to settle on the first thing I tried...federal bor-lock 270gr copper bullets over three 50gr 777 pellets w/ 209 primer :dunno:
I love those Federal bor-locks, load so easy and shoot well out of my Accura MR. They open perfectly every time, whether the shot is 10ft or 100 yards, just like the marketing pictures..