Post by: bmc02 on November 13, 2023, 02:04:28 PM
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Post by: Wad-Cutter on November 17, 2023, 07:58:32 AM
I don't post much, but this whole business of anti-hunters grabbing the wheel in our State has me spooked. Has there been any talk of a ballot initiative, to put commissioner appointments into the hands of voters, by region, rather than by Governor fiat? From what I understand, the Governor's power to appoint WDFW commissioners isn't necessarily enshrined in the constitution, and is a matter of statutory law, which (if true) suggests to me that maybe we can solve this through a ballot initiative - if we could get one on the ballot & if it were to pass in our favor... Any thoughts on that, or experts out there who can weigh in?
Post by: Mtnwalker on November 17, 2023, 08:19:31 AM
Hey Guys,
I don't post much, but this whole business of anti-hunters grabbing the wheel in our State has me spooked. Has there been any talk of a ballot initiative, to put commissioner appointments into the hands of voters, by region, rather than by Governor fiat? From what I understand, the Governor's power to appoint WDFW commissioners isn't necessarily enshrined in the constitution, and is a matter of statutory law, which (if true) suggests to me that maybe we can solve this through a ballot initiative - if we could get one on the ballot & if it were to pass in our favor... Any thoughts on that, or experts out there who can weigh in?
I think it's going to take something along these lines if we hope to reverse course at all moving forward. The way things are set up now we will continue to be on our heels playing defense, just trying to slow the bleeding vs actually fixing anything or recovering any of what has been lost
Post by: Wad-Cutter on November 17, 2023, 08:39:38 AM
Post by: Firstgenhunter on November 17, 2023, 09:22:57 AM
Hey Guys,We would lose a ballot initiative badly. We need to avoid that at all costs. So many people are too stupid to vote for the right people.A ballot initiative would give the antis of King, Snohomish and Pierce a ton of power.
I don't post much, but this whole business of anti-hunters grabbing the wheel in our State has me spooked. Has there been any talk of a ballot initiative, to put commissioner appointments into the hands of voters, by region, rather than by Governor fiat? From what I understand, the Governor's power to appoint WDFW commissioners isn't necessarily enshrined in the constitution, and is a matter of statutory law, which (if true) suggests to me that maybe we can solve this through a ballot initiative - if we could get one on the ballot & if it were to pass in our favor... Any thoughts on that, or experts out there who can weigh in?
Post by: Firstgenhunter on November 17, 2023, 09:31:26 AM
You are correct. I figure there are a lot of other elected positions, like port commissioners, fire commissioners, etc, why not WDFW commissioners, who are each elected by their specific region? It seems like maintaining a majority on the commission would be easier that way, and of course, there'd be a much higher likelihood that hunter's rights would remain in focus, and that the science would be followed. If Washington gets noticed as the canary in the coal mine, maybe some out of State money / national associations would get behind it & do battle against the anti-hunting special interests & actually win for once.
While I would say national coverage is pretty high. Been involved in that coverage and discussions on this subject. The legislature is where we can win, voters in my opinion should not decide wildlife management. it's how we lost hound hunting.
If we did a vote for commissioners, this is the scenario. Regions 1,2, and 3 cover the east of the Cascades we would win most likely. Region 4 is the north sound, region 6 includes Pierce, Thruston and the coast which we would lose. Region 5 is the southwest, but does not include Pacific county. This area has become a lot more liberal in recent years, especially because of Vancouver. We would never have a majority this way, and voters aren't educated in wildlife management or a lot don't care. It's possible candidates could be snakes, putting on a show. And, most commissioner elections we do vote for are meant to be nonpartisan. A lot of people vote by party, so without an R on the ballot they wouldn't know who to vote for. This is something we would lose, we need to get more involved with the legislature, county commissioners and write to the governor and his advisors. I have email addresses if anyone is interested.
Post by: ghosthunter on November 17, 2023, 09:44:33 AM
You are correct. I figure there are a lot of other elected positions, like port commissioners, fire commissioners, etc, why not WDFW commissioners, who are each elected by their specific region? It seems like maintaining a majority on the commission would be easier that way, and of course, there'd be a much higher likelihood that hunter's rights would remain in focus, and that the science would be followed. If Washington gets noticed as the canary in the coal mine, maybe some out of State money / national associations would get behind it & do battle against the anti-hunting special interests & actually win for once.
We got rid of the Game Commission years ago and if my memory serves me right it was a train wreck also. Electing them is a terrible idea. I doubt you could get what you wanted in most of the state. That is why we are where are now because the current commission feels empowered.
The only way out of this mess I see is to make them worry at every level that votes will be lost. The Commission’s poor choices needs to be highlighted in every race.
And if some group can find a legal avenue to punish them all the better.
But if you elect them it’s over. No way that will work for us.
Post by: Mtnwalker on November 17, 2023, 09:53:11 AM
Post by: Wad-Cutter on November 17, 2023, 10:16:08 AM
One thing's for sure though, with this particular Governor in place, and with the Governor empowered to appoint these positions, we're getting steamrolled. Mtnwalker's not wrong either. A failed ballot initiative would just mean it's the status quo, which is a net nothing either way. Except, maybe it puts the Governor's office on notice, that too much fooling around leads toward people pushing to diminish the Governor's power.
I'm all for being active with the legislature. And, I write alot of letters. I hope everyone else does too. And, I'm all for raising the issue every time there's a vote to be cast. My concern, is that if we rely strictly on their fear of losing votes, when all indications are that the State is turning more & more blue, that they'll just feel more emboldened over time, with less & less fear about losing votes, and just push on with their agenda to the detriment of the whole system. My gut reaction is to try & think of a way to hamstring them, so that even if they gain more power, which seems the likely outcome in the long run as hunters flee the State, that they're hands remain tied when it comes to how the department sets rules. Knowing voters don't have the stomach to get into the weeds on individual issues, somehow having more control over who occupies commission seats is key.
...enjoying the discussion - good points all around.
Post by: GOcougsHunter on November 17, 2023, 10:33:38 AM
Post by: dwils233 on November 17, 2023, 10:58:21 AM
We should not have elected game commissioners. Populism and the governance of the WDFW will spell doom for hunting and fishing. The Hound Hunting and Bear Baiting initiative many years ago showed that the vast majority of the electorate have no clue on how wildlife need to be managed. Appointments to the commission are loaded with pitfalls. But, I think elections would create a mess the likes we probably would never recover from.
:yeah:
I would strongly oppose any conversation that would go in this direction. We would lose too many of those elections and probably end up with an even worse commission. You know who would probably love this idea is WWF and other groups because it would speed up the demise of the agency and any spot at the table hunting and fishing currently have
Post by: Wad-Cutter on November 17, 2023, 11:26:22 AM
I still say that relying on our ability to somehow improve outcomes by working within the status quo, and just "bringing awareness" is going to end very badly for hunters. The anecdotal evidence I see suggests there is not a net increase in people who hunt, or who tend to sympathize with hunting, that are moving into this State. They seem to be more-often moving out of the State. And, I think the recent trend in politics suggest that relying on the ballot box to get a better Governor, and through that, better appointments, is a bad strategy.
I don't know about this State specifically, and I don't know how true it is nationally, but I've heard it said that something like 70-77% of people have a generally favorable view of hunting, but that survey declines a little every time it's taken. So, before it falls too low, we'd better craft something that leverages that generally-positive view into something that puts a stop to all this nonsense.
I'm out of good ideas this morning (or didn't have one in the first place), but someone smarter than me better figure this out.
...cheers.
Post by: GOcougsHunter on November 17, 2023, 11:49:46 AM
OK, I think you no votes have won me over. When I really think it through, I agree the opposition is just too good at the ballot box to leave every round of commissioner appointments up to a vote. I'm personally gonna drop it after this.
I still say that relying on our ability to somehow improve outcomes by working within the status quo, and just "bringing awareness" is going to end very badly for hunters. The anecdotal evidence I see suggests there is not a net increase in people who hunt, or who tend to sympathize with hunting, that are moving into this State. They seem to be more-often moving out of the State. And, I think the recent trend in politics suggest that relying on the ballot box to get a better Governor, and through that, better appointments, is a bad strategy.
I don't know about this State specifically, and I don't know how true it is nationally, but I've heard it said that something like 70-77% of people have a generally favorable view of hunting, but that survey declines a little every time it's taken. So, before it falls too low, we'd better craft something that leverages that generally-positive view into something that puts a stop to all this nonsense.
I'm out of good ideas this morning (or didn't have one in the first place), but someone smarter than me better figure this out.
...cheers.
I think it is really good to talk about all options (plusses and minuses) and continue to debate them. Keep throwing ideas out there and let everyone vet them. I have few answers but actively do everything I can to advocate for our way of life. I am not going to give up on this state and will participate in all facets of policy making and activities supporting hunting and fishing into the future even when it may seem bleak. I owe it to my kids.
Post by: Firstgenhunter on November 17, 2023, 12:11:19 PM
OK, I think you no votes have won me over. When I really think it through, I agree the opposition is just too good at the ballot box to leave every round of commissioner appointments up to a vote. I'm personally gonna drop it after this.
I still say that relying on our ability to somehow improve outcomes by working within the status quo, and just "bringing awareness" is going to end very badly for hunters. The anecdotal evidence I see suggests there is not a net increase in people who hunt, or who tend to sympathize with hunting, that are moving into this State. They seem to be more-often moving out of the State. And, I think the recent trend in politics suggest that relying on the ballot box to get a better Governor, and through that, better appointments, is a bad strategy.
I don't know about this State specifically, and I don't know how true it is nationally, but I've heard it said that something like 70-77% of people have a generally favorable view of hunting, but that survey declines a little every time it's taken. So, before it falls too low, we'd better craft something that leverages that generally-positive view into something that puts a stop to all this nonsense.
I'm out of good ideas this morning (or didn't have one in the first place), but someone smarter than me better figure this out.
...cheers.
I think it is really good to talk about all options (plusses and minuses) and continue to debate them. Keep throwing ideas out there and let everyone vet them. I have few answers but actively do everything I can to advocate for our way of life. I am not going to give up on this state and will participate in all facets of policy making and activities supporting hunting and fishing into the future even when it may seem bleak. I owe it to my kids.
Amen brother, right there beside you!
Post by: RC on November 17, 2023, 12:33:51 PM
Post by: Firstgenhunter on November 17, 2023, 01:03:29 PM
Speaking of the commission, where are things at right now? Been pretty quiet since the October meeting. What's the next step? What's the time line for any sort of season decisions to be made? Any upcoming meetings to be aware of?
I don't know if you are on insta but the coalition posted some next steps to facebook and insta. The preservation policy will have an update soon. Either end of year or next year. The GMP will have an update next year as well. The next meeting is on zoom fully on December 14th, 15th and 16th. a decision will be made on the Black bear cr-102. The commission will have a briefing on rules of procedure, not sure what that means. The BIG thing we all need to pay attention to is the anti hunter petition. This would shorten cougar and bear seasons, shorten bag limits among other things. This is word for word what Lorna Smith and Melanie Rowland wants. It was made by WWF and all of the others. I will make a full post here on what's coming up. We ALL need to email the commission about this, this is the first step towards banning predator hunting. It's going to be spring bear all over again.
Get involved with the legislature, let them know what's going on. I have about 20 emails for those to reach out to. Besides the December meeting, things are going to be quiet. The reason why its on zoom is so no one has to travel. The next commission meeting isn't until end of January. The big sportsmen groups are probably going to go quiet until next year, so will the commission and antis. The coalition will have content put out soon. We all need to stay involved.
Mark your calendars for Thursday January 11th, 2024, Centralia, WA at the Southwest Washington fairgrounds. Sportsmen’s Alliance will be doing another event with auctions of gear, even some big hunting and fishing trips. This is a free event for families, food trucks will be onsite along with drinks. Proceeds for the fundraiser are going directly to the legal and legislative battles against the commission to stop the anti-hunting movement.
More information will come soon but this will be a very fun event. We are looking for donations for the auctions (live and silent) for the event. Contact us, Joel Swecker, or Steve Bell for ideas, items, and contacts for the event. Share the heck out of this, this is going to be one massive event!! HUGE shoutouts to Sportsmen Alliance for doing this, proud to see you guys taking the lead in the fight to save our heritage and we are proud to fight beside you. Another HUGE shoutout to Joel Swecker and Steve Bell for helping put this event together and bring it to fruition. This is a coalition member-collaborated event. Hope to see you there!! Remember to mark your calendars!!
Post by: KNOPHISH on November 17, 2023, 04:30:12 PM