Post by: smithkl42 on December 04, 2023, 08:23:02 AM
So far, I have yet to get a single deer to eat or try any of it. I've got them on camera, walking right by a pile of apples or carrots, and pointedly ignoring them. I've tried baiting pretty much every month from September through December, and it doesn't seem to make any difference.
I hear from plenty of other folks that they have no trouble getting deer to come into their bait. Am I just doing something wrong? Or have I only managed to find weird blacktails?
Post by: GASoline71 on December 04, 2023, 08:29:26 AM
Gary
Post by: Tbar on December 04, 2023, 08:32:09 AM
The Blacktail on our property will eat bushels of apples in a week. Pretty impressive how they will mow through them.:yeah: blacktail love apples. Biggest issue with apples is keeping bears off...
Gary
Post by: fowl smacker on December 04, 2023, 08:48:23 AM
Post by: smithkl42 on December 04, 2023, 08:48:33 AM
Quote
:yeah: blacktail love apples. Biggest issue with apples is keeping bears off...
Yeah, I haven't had any trouble getting bears onto my apples. That's why I've tried harder to put out my apples after the bears have gone underground for the winter - I was wondering if maybe the bears were scaring the deer off. But the bears are gone now, and the deer still seem to be uninterested.
Post by: IslandHunter on December 04, 2023, 08:59:13 AM
When are you putting bait out and how long after are you expecting results? I have never had luck putting bait out and seeing deer on my bait
within the next 24 -48 hrs unless I have already been baiting the area consistently. Baiting consistently or somewhat consistently is important. I try to start at least 4 weeks before I start hunting.
Deer are not dumb, a pile of apples in the middle of the forest is not natural, I think it takes a while for the deer to get comfortable and let their guard down around a new food source like this. I assume that's what the deer or doing in the pictures you posted, they are interested in the bait but not comfortable enough to eat it.
Blacktail also like / need good cover. Its going to be hard to pull them out of cover to a bait pile, try different baiting locations and try bating in heavy cover.
Post by: Mustelidae on December 04, 2023, 09:19:39 AM
Post by: npaull on December 04, 2023, 09:23:55 AM
Post by: IFunk on December 04, 2023, 09:41:45 AM
Post by: smithkl42 on December 04, 2023, 10:13:15 AM
This is why I'll always say blacktails are by far the hardest deer to hunt. They have food EVERYWHERE, cover EVERYWHERE, and water EVERYWHERE. They have no pattern, because they don't need one. A big blacktail barely has to move to get everything it needs, and it can get everything it needs in cover so thick it is absolutely impossible to move through quietly.
When I first started hunting, I got Boyd Iverson's book, and thought I was all setup to get myself onto some deer. His recommended strategy seems to come down to: (1) find where they're eating; (2) find where they're sleeping; (3) find the trails between those locations; (4) sit on those trails. That sounded great, but after years of trying to put advice to practice, I haven't been able to make it work. WA blacktail seem to have dozens of feeding locations in their home area, they can sleep pretty much anywhere, and from what I can tell, they rarely seem to use the same trails twice in a month. I don't know if (a) I'm dumber than your average hunter, (b) Boyd Iverson is all wet, or (c) WA blacktail behave very differently from the Oregon blacktail he spent his career hunting. My guess is (c), but ... :dunno:
Post by: smithkl42 on December 04, 2023, 10:49:38 AM
I have had my best luck with apples.
When are you putting bait out and how long after are you expecting results? I have never had luck putting bait out and seeing deer on my bait
within the next 24 -48 hrs unless I have already been baiting the area consistently. Baiting consistently or somewhat consistently is important. I try to start at least 4 weeks before I start hunting.
Deer are not dumb, a pile of apples in the middle of the forest is not natural, I think it takes a while for the deer to get comfortable and let their guard down around a new food source like this. I assume that's what the deer or doing in the pictures you posted, they are interested in the bait but not comfortable enough to eat it.
Blacktail also like / need good cover. Its going to be hard to pull them out of cover to a bait pile, try different baiting locations and try bating in heavy cover.
All good advice. I've had apples (or carrots or whatever) sit out for weeks, and remain untouched. I've tried it in thick cover, in small openings, in large openings, in clearcuts ...
One issue I've had is finding enough apples to keep the pile fresh, especially during the early season. This year I tried gathering about 50 gallons of apples and storing them in my freezer - and I learned why you don't do that. Next year I'll see if I can free up room in my garage fridge.
Post by: bobcat on December 04, 2023, 11:48:13 AM
Post by: smithkl42 on December 04, 2023, 11:56:29 AM
I've never had a problem getting blacktails to eat apples. I can put a pile of apples in a random spot and almost always within 24 hours the deer will be there eating all the apples. I do remember a couple of times that it took 2 or 3 days before they found it, but at least one of those times a bear found it first and ate all the apples the first night.
That's weird - because that's totally what I keep hearing from most folks. I wonder if they're just different in different areas? (All the places I've tried bait have been within roughly 30 minute drive of Monroe, mostly to the north. Maybe the deer in that area are just strange?)
Post by: bobcat on December 04, 2023, 12:00:24 PM
Post by: 2MANY on December 04, 2023, 12:02:43 PM
The first green apples are the best but will not save.
I believe they are the big, green translucent??
Kind of a softer apple but they rot fast.
In my experience deer flock to them while stepping right over red or harder apples.
Post by: GOcougsHunter on December 04, 2023, 12:12:15 PM
I've never had a problem getting blacktails to eat apples. I can put a pile of apples in a random spot and almost always within 24 hours the deer will be there eating all the apples. I do remember a couple of times that it took 2 or 3 days before they found it, but at least one of those times a bear found it first and ate all the apples the first night.
That's weird - because that's totally what I keep hearing from most folks. I wonder if they're just different in different areas? (All the places I've tried bait have been within roughly 30 minute drive of Monroe, mostly to the north. Maybe the deer in that area are just strange?)
Are there other apple trees or orchards in the vicinity which might be drawing them in instead? In my EWA spot (whitetails and muleys), we have a couple of apple trees which don't seem to get touched until mid Sept and then they can't stay away from it until the bears get up in the trees and finish them off. It might be simply like Island Hunter stated above, they are not conditioned to eat something not natural. Maybe their stomach biome is not prepared for it? I have experimented with Acorns/chestnuts and sometimes the deer vacuum them up within a day, sometimes, they sit all season.
Post by: ASHQUACK on December 04, 2023, 12:25:25 PM
Post by: dreadi on December 04, 2023, 12:31:34 PM
BLACK HAMMER ARMS
07/02 NFA Dealer
http://www.blackhammerarms.com
http://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarms
https://www.instagram.com/blackhammerarms
Post by: metlhead on December 04, 2023, 12:51:48 PM
Post by: highside74 on December 04, 2023, 03:34:43 PM
Post by: kball4 on December 04, 2023, 04:34:54 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 04, 2023, 04:38:09 PM
Post by: slavenoid on December 04, 2023, 04:47:24 PM
Post by: highside74 on December 04, 2023, 05:01:05 PM
I find it extremely easy to bait blacktails with apples and wet cob. I find it difficult to kill them using bait though. The ones you want to kill vanish when it's legal to do so. During the rut the big boys also walk right through the bait they used to care about. I did start peeing in front of the camera this year and I got a lot more bucks pics all of a sudden.
Definitely not getting much buck attention on bait during the rut. But if you can keep the does around the bucks will show for the girls more than the apples.
Post by: IslandHunter on December 05, 2023, 09:08:52 AM
All good advice. I've had apples (or carrots or whatever) sit out for weeks, and remain untouched. I've tried it in thick cover, in small openings, in large openings, in clearcuts ...
One issue I've had is finding enough apples to keep the pile fresh, especially during the early season. This year I tried gathering about 50 gallons of apples and storing them in my freezer - and I learned why you don't do that. Next year I'll see if I can free up room in my garage fridge.
Interesting. I have never had any issue getting deer to eat apples, especially when I am able to regularly bait an area. The only thing I can think of is there is something wrong with your bait or there is another abundant food source available that tastes so good they don't care about your bait.
Any farm land close to your hunting area?
Do you have a dog? Or any ideas if your bait could be taking on a scent that is keeping the deer away? I have never refrigerated my apples, always left them outside and they eat them fresh or rotten.
Maybe try some different bait types. You could put out 5 different baits 1 gallon each and see if anything interests them.
I like your comment about Boyd Iverson BT tactics I very much felt the same after reading it. Its a great book and has a ton of info but when I get in the woods only about 20% of it seems to apply to my hunting situations. I think the biggest thing I took from this book is to be successful you need to spend time in the woods and paint a picture in your mind about what the deer are doing and why they are doing what they are doing. Use every piece of new information you find to slowly detail out and correct that painting in your head and you will slowly begin to see a bigger picture and understand the deer in your area. Once you have even a tiny bit of understanding of what the deer are doing it becomes much easier to bag one.
Sounds like you are putting in the work. I am sure the stars will align for you soon enough. Lost of people find success without bait so don't feel like just because the deer aren't taking your bait means you wont be able to harvest one.
Post by: npaull on December 05, 2023, 09:23:37 AM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 05, 2023, 09:30:10 AM
The farther south you go, the more the blacktails are like mule deer. California blacktails may be the same species biologically, but behaviorally and from a hunting perspective they may as well be a different animal. I think most of the Oregon blacktails are the same creature as our WA blacktails, but maybe they're more bench-leggy where Iverson hunted I don't know.
My thoughts as well.👍
Post by: shadowless_nite on December 05, 2023, 05:38:53 PM
If you are hunting blacktail deer that don't normally have access to the particular bait, let's say apples, they are less likely to hit it right away. A coastal deer deep in a nasty valley won't care right away for apples simply because it's a unfamiliar food source. Carrots/pumpkin/ corn a lot of times don't get hit for this reason.
Also as stated before, are there other local food sources within their usual range? Are you hunting around a orchard not far from another orchard or someone feeding with more feed and reliability of present food source? This year was great for apples, last year not so much. This should be noted through out the year, a orchard with early apples will get hit early, and late harvest apples will still be dropping them now. If it's not apples perhaps other seasonal food sources nearby
Also remember if your ultimate goal is to have a chance on a buck, then you should strive to attract the doe and fawns. And to attract them your site needs to make them feel safe, easily on the trail to access within their natural routes/game trail and reliability of food being present. Why would they return for food if it's constantly gone? Providing a sense of security goes beyond the season. I try to feed beginning spring/ summer when fawns are new and their mama's need a safe place for them to feed, they remember these spots and come back to them as places of sanctuary and when other deer take note so will they and will continue through out the season later on. And ultimately over the years of a single site continue to build on it. And same goes for the bucks that fed preseason and felt safe and had reliable food available they will return after the rut in bachelor groups looking to put some meat back on their bones.
And lastly if predators are in the area it can easily blow things out, not just the bears but coyotes and cats. And of course other human pressure. Do your best to pick a area with as little of this pressure as possible. My particular area has a very aggressive pack of local coyotes that are weary of humans. To reduce the chances of attracting them during the season we take our deer out whole ungutted. I hunt a very high hunting pressure, lots of local human/livestock around private parcel. If we were to leave a gut pile the coyotes would come overnight pushing the deer out on what might be the most peak days of the season ESPECIALLY if you plan to have others hunt the same stand. The deer however don't mind the smell of blood or even a nearby fallen deer. They will walk right over a blood trail to get some food.
I'm sure there but these things are too of my list.
Post by: Humptulips on December 05, 2023, 08:57:57 PM
I will just add to it in way of an observation. I have some apple trees and until a few years ago no deer. I know that sounds crazy, but I have lived here mostly since 1960 and until maybe 10 years ago I had seen maybe 2 deer passing through. Lately though there are 3 to 4 deer regular in the yard and elk come through fairly often. Until about 5 years ago they would never touch the apples. I literally would haul a couple PU loads of windfall apples off and dump them. Then about 5 years ago I guess one of them tasted them and now they eat everyone. I do not think they knew what they were before and so never touched them.
Post by: Sliverslinger on December 05, 2023, 10:22:54 PM
Post by: highside74 on December 05, 2023, 11:26:01 PM
My deer eat a 5 gallon bucket of apples every night at my blind site. Occasionally I bring two buckets and they eat that all overnight to. Here’s the key I learned after years of doing this, take a machete and cut the apples to small pieces, you’ll be amazed at the difference. I spent hours watching deer try and eat the apples and move on before realizing that if you make it easy, the will smell them from farther and stay there way longer.
I just stomp them :chuckle:
Maybe not all of them but a fair amount I step on.
Post by: Martinhunter on December 06, 2023, 12:26:10 AM
Not sure why they wouldn't be eating what your putting out unless your putting your scent all over it. :dunno:
Post by: The Gobble-stopper on December 06, 2023, 04:43:20 AM
Post by: steeleywhopper on December 06, 2023, 06:48:53 AM
This is up in Timber country where no apples grow
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 06, 2023, 10:40:15 AM
I usually take one or two apples and shred them against a tree getting the juice of the apple all over it. I don't know what it is, but deer find the apples that day or evening. If I don't break up a couple apples it takes a while for them to find them. I am going to try dumping some apple cider around and see if that gets them on it.
This is up in Timber country where no apples grow
Great idea on the cider, splash it nose level on the trees.👍
Post by: shadowless_nite on December 06, 2023, 06:41:48 PM
Another bonus tip.... during peak of the modern deer season on the west side it also happens to be peak cider season. Put a post on craigstlist/fb/social media saying you are looking to collect cider pressings. Most of the time people are pressing hundreds of pounds which results in lots of nice apple waste that isn't necessarily just mush and they have already put them in garbage bags or containers. This makes it very very easy to obtain apples without bending over to pick up apples one by one. If kept in a garbage bag in a garbage can out of the light in a cool place and closed up they will last quite a while. They don't stink, if anything it just eventually turns into apple cider vinegar. But this is probably the easiest way to gather a large amount apples for free with minimal labor.
Post by: smithkl42 on December 08, 2023, 02:56:10 PM
Post by: dilleytech on December 10, 2023, 09:25:50 AM
The only thing that works to attract deer is salt. And it’s works really well for bucks in the spring and summer but not so much in the fall and winter. But they are still
More likely to lick salt in October then eat an apple or the rest of the stuff. So I use salt to get an idea what lives in an area but have pretty much given up on bait. So far I have not killed a deer or elk because I used bait or a game cam. It’s fun though.
Post by: ridgefire on December 10, 2023, 12:37:30 PM
Post by: highside74 on December 10, 2023, 01:25:31 PM
Have any of you tried water softener pellets? One of my buddy uses them on Blacktails and they can’t stay away from them. I will occasionally put out mineral licks at my cameras and they seem to like them.
Mind blown
Post by: dreadi on December 10, 2023, 02:47:52 PM
BLACK HAMMER ARMS
07/02 NFA Dealer
http://www.blackhammerarms.com
http://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarms
https://www.instagram.com/blackhammerarms
Post by: hunter399 on December 10, 2023, 02:49:04 PM
Have any of you tried water softener pellets? One of my buddy uses them on Blacktails and they can’t stay away from them. I will occasionally put out mineral licks at my cameras and they seem to like them.
Mind blown
I don't use them.
But have seen them used.
Dig a hole ,drop a bag in hole, lightly cover back with some dirt.
Seen it on YouTube.
Post by: IFunk on January 17, 2024, 03:18:59 PM
The best apples are wind fall apples that are getting soft.
BLACK HAMMER ARMS
07/02 NFA Dealer
http://www.blackhammerarms.com
http://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarms
https://www.instagram.com/blackhammerarms
Dana,
Are you suggesting that blacktail only eat fruit that has voluntarily fallen off the tree? Are they fruitarians? ;)
Post by: dreadi on January 17, 2024, 03:33:07 PM
The best apples are wind fall apples that are getting soft.
BLACK HAMMER ARMS
07/02 NFA Dealer
http://www.blackhammerarms.com
http://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarms
https://www.instagram.com/blackhammerarms
Dana,
Are you suggesting that blacktail only eat fruit that has voluntarily fallen off the tree? Are they fruitarians? ;)
I’m trying to say that the more ripe they are, the more they are attracted to them.
BLACK HAMMER ARMS
07/02 NFA Dealer
http://www.blackhammerarms.com
http://www.facebook.com/blackhammerarms
https://www.instagram.com/blackhammerarms
Post by: blumtnelkndeer on January 17, 2024, 04:07:55 PM
Post by: highside74 on January 17, 2024, 04:24:24 PM
i bet if you could get ahold of some garbanzo beans they would be gone within a few hours if there is deer within a short distance.
Tried it. They didn't care one bit. Whitetail love them. Blacktail let them go to mush.
Post by: IFunk on January 17, 2024, 04:28:09 PM
i bet if you could get ahold of some garbanzo beans they would be gone within a few hours if there is deer within a short distance.
With all the Bronx cheers they would be letting out - it wouldn't be a bad tactic to locate them.
Post by: actionshooter on January 17, 2024, 07:07:26 PM
Post by: Mallardmasher on January 30, 2024, 05:56:30 PM
Post by: duckmen1 on January 30, 2024, 09:49:03 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on January 31, 2024, 08:16:19 AM
My deer eat a 5 gallon bucket of apples every night at my blind site. Occasionally I bring two buckets and they eat that all overnight to. Here’s the key I learned after years of doing this, take a machete and cut the apples to small pieces, you’ll be amazed at the difference. I spent hours watching deer try and eat the apples and move on before realizing that if you make it easy, the will smell them from farther and stay there way longer.:yeah: