Post by: ridgefire on December 31, 2023, 10:01:07 AM
Post by: Platensek-po on December 31, 2023, 10:12:48 AM
Post by: ASHQUACK on December 31, 2023, 04:33:01 PM
Post by: Platensek-po on December 31, 2023, 04:42:36 PM
Most likely small enough to slip through net mesh meant to kill bigger fish. State run hatcheries are kill hatcheries. Very few if any kelts are released to venture back to salt.
Why would they kill steelhead tho? They can go back to the salt and come back again the next year. Female steelhead have been known to spawn 2-3 times.
Post by: Jake Dogfish on December 31, 2023, 05:02:41 PM
Most likely small enough to slip through net mesh meant to kill bigger fish. State run hatcheries are kill hatcheries. Very few if any kelts are released to venture back to salt.
Why would they kill steelhead tho? They can go back to the salt and come back again the next year. Female steelhead have been known to spawn 2-3 times.
They spawn them to meet egg take goals. Hatchery spawning is usually fatal.
Post by: HntnFsh on December 31, 2023, 05:36:19 PM
Most likely small enough to slip through net mesh meant to kill bigger fish. State run hatcheries are kill hatcheries. Very few if any kelts are released to venture back to salt.
All kelts captured on the Cowlitz system are released at Mision launch to try to make another run.
Post by: metlhead on December 31, 2023, 06:48:47 PM
Post by: Smokeploe on December 31, 2023, 06:57:55 PM
Smokeploe
Post by: ridgefire on December 31, 2023, 07:00:37 PM
Post by: metlhead on December 31, 2023, 08:18:02 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on December 31, 2023, 08:18:29 PM
I don't belive the Cowlitz hatchery releases kelts. Those released fish are fresh and have returned long before the hatchery is ready for them. Small steelhead are common there in August. The males may be similar to salmon jacks.
The Kelts are captured at Cowlitz falls and trucked to Mission bar.
Post by: HntnFsh on December 31, 2023, 08:21:51 PM
Yes they recycle many times. I was talking to the truck driver who drives the fish truck, they recycle 2-3 times per week. They release either at mission launch or the ramp under I5. During the summer months they release jacks, small returning steelhead into Riffe Lake 3-4 times per week.
Smokeploe
All recycled steelhead go to I5.
The mini jacks do go to Riffe.
Post by: metlhead on January 01, 2024, 05:47:45 AM
Post by: nanum on January 01, 2024, 11:46:50 AM
Post by: jackelope on January 01, 2024, 12:03:35 PM
Post by: RC on January 01, 2024, 01:46:04 PM
Post by: Fishmaker57 on January 01, 2024, 02:46:39 PM
I caught 14” rainbows in the upper Sky drainage thin blue lines this past year with almost regularity. A 16” fish(rainbow) on the main river seems totally conceivable without any other thoughts coming to mind. There are definitely at least some resident fish in the main stem.
On the right track here, I believe. Not all hatchery released Steelhad smolts migrate to the salt. Some residualization takes place, particularly when the smolts get too big in the pond, or become precocious. At some facilities, smolts are allowed to volitionally leave the pond when ready; after a period of time, those that don’t leave are considered residualized and are planted in lakes.
Post by: 7mmfan on January 01, 2024, 03:52:39 PM
I spoke to a hatchery worker a few years ago that told me the changes we’re seeing is the result of the WFC decision that changed hatchery management for skamania steelhead. I believe they are using a stock of steelhead tied more closely to the Snohomish system, which are smaller? Hopefully someone else can shed some more light on this, but bottom line is that this is the future of steelhead fishing on the Snohomish system. The worker also told me all the new pens up there are for raising chinook to come back to reiter, but who knows if we’ll be able to fish for them.
The Skamania stock are the summer fish. Winter fish have always been Chambers Creek stock. They are supposed to be using wild summer broodstock for the summer program now. They may not be as big as Skamania stock but still a good move as far as I'm concerned. I'd be very surprised to see them ever use wild winter fish for their hatchery stock based on run timing alone.
Post by: simondude on January 01, 2024, 04:07:00 PM
Post by: 7mmfan on January 01, 2024, 04:15:50 PM
I heard that during covid the state opened the gates and let all the fish out. So they were letting smolts out and that's what's returning now. The fish are returning a year before they should be.
I don't think that's how it works. Steelhead are biologically tuned to head to salt at a certain age. Just because they are let loose from the ponds doesn't mean they head straight to the salt.
Post by: ridgefire on January 06, 2024, 11:48:20 PM
Post by: Rutnbuxnbulls on January 07, 2024, 05:39:10 AM
Maybe released early and set up as residents? Brood stock? I moved a few years ago from that area, Lake Stevens, and I sure do miss fishing the Sky. Beautiful country.
Post by: 7mmfan on January 07, 2024, 08:12:30 AM
There's a lot wrong with the Skykomish system but most of it happens down in the Snohomish and tide water. The number of pinnipeds in the lower end of that river is extreme and smolt hardly have a chance.
Most of our rivers don't have enough feed in them to support many smolt that spend a year or more in the system before heading out because the robust runs of late fall spawning salmon (chum mainly, silvers too) have become so depressed that the biomass in the river continues to decline. We need those carcasses to decompose in the rivers to grow bugs for those smolt to eat. It's a vicious cycle.
Post by: LDennis24 on January 07, 2024, 09:18:53 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 07, 2024, 11:44:15 AM
Post by: Jake Dogfish on January 07, 2024, 12:13:07 PM
Salmon guys have theorized for a long time that if you have a lot of Jack's around one year, the following years adult run should be robust. That's all hypothetical though.:yeah:
There's a lot wrong with the Skykomish system but most of it happens down in the Snohomish and tide water. The number of pinnipeds in the lower end of that river is extreme and smolt hardly have a chance.
Most of our rivers don't have enough feed in them to support many smolt that spend a year or more in the system before heading out because the robust runs of late fall spawning salmon (chum mainly, silvers too) have become so depressed that the biomass in the river continues to decline. We need those carcasses to decompose in the rivers to grow bugs for those smolt to eat. It's a vicious cycle.
Post by: Tbar on January 07, 2024, 12:34:58 PM
Salmon guys have theorized for a long time that if you have a lot of Jack's around one year, the following years adult run should be robust. That's all hypothetical though.[/b]
There's a lot wrong with the Skykomish system but most of it happens down in the Snohomish and tide water. The number of pinnipeds in the lower end of that river is extreme and smolt hardly have a chance.
Most of our rivers don't have enough feed in them to support many smolt that spend a year or more in the system before heading out because the robust runs of late fall spawning salmon (chum mainly, silvers too) have become so depressed that the biomass in the river continues to decline. We need those carcasses to decompose in the rivers to grow bugs for those smolt to eat. It's a vicious cycle.
:yeah:
Spot on 7mm.