Post by: b0bbyg on January 21, 2024, 10:39:47 PM
Well is a 30 amp circuit, well house has 40 amp main breaker.
Thinking a battery system that could get me by a while in a pinch and in non severe weather events could be used in green house spring/fall to extend growing seasons. During this time would use solar panels to recharge.
Curious if anyone has a system like this or has opinions. Would like something that serves multiple uses that if oight enough could be used for summer trips in a camper, or at hunting camp for power.
Starting to explore options and seems like there are a few out there, some too heavy to move around much
Post by: Scruffy on January 21, 2024, 11:05:58 PM
Post by: Skillet on January 21, 2024, 11:29:19 PM
If the well power is out, the rest of the house power is out too. Water cooled aux genset best option, IMHO.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 22, 2024, 06:34:24 AM
Or for $20k propane generator or Tesla battery pack and solar panels are readily available.
Post by: WSU on January 22, 2024, 07:39:31 AM
Post by: b0bbyg on January 24, 2024, 08:27:34 AM
To be clear it is more wanting a battery system that could serve in a pinch, not a solar array that could run the well by itself.
Some solar in greenhouse when emergency not looming and use it there during that time.
Batteries expensive but getting better and more portable with some solutions so fun to explore the options.
But may be getting put on back burner as heat pump gave up the ghost recently :yike:
Post by: MeepDog on January 24, 2024, 10:38:44 AM
You would need some sort of wired in extra plug that ideally would have an interlock to run because if you just slap power on the circuit youll back feed your house and put juice onto the rest of the grid if your main circuit breaker is still closed in. All of this still applies with a generator as well. I could be mistaken but I believe its a code requirement to have some sort of interlock in place for a generator plug attached to your home circuits.
Post by: Mudman on January 24, 2024, 11:07:08 AM
Post by: boneaddict on January 24, 2024, 11:11:43 AM
Post by: CP on January 24, 2024, 03:42:42 PM
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BJK2G52L/ref=syn_sd_onsite_desktop_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aref=XEkKFMtJIY
Hard to say how much battery/inverter that you need without more info on the pump motor.
Post by: b0bbyg on January 24, 2024, 08:31:48 PM
My well comes off its own breaker out by the main meter, and does not come off the House box. Be conscious of what the transfer switch will let you power if hooking a genny in is what I am saying.
I have a similar setup, small well house with 40 amp dedicated service.
Well house was powered off original service for a mobile home, I convinced power company to leave that service when new house was built with a new line pulled in.
Whatever I put in i want a proper switch installed for safety and no back feed of power
Post by: Reidus on January 24, 2024, 08:40:35 PM
Post by: huntinguy on January 25, 2024, 05:42:22 AM
Re. Reidus's comment: I have a pump in the well that is about 40 amps, that feeds a cistern that has a 35 amp pump that feeds the line to the house. That was about as small as I could go and still meet the needs of the house. I was very surprised the pump had to be so big...
As for power requirements... there is something... I think it is called "armature lock" amperage that defines how large the generator needs to be. That is, as I understand it, the power required to start the motion of the pump. It is significantly higher than the run amperage.
I have thought of a gasoline generator as others suggested. The "new" gas has a habit of killing carburetors. so, for me that is out.
Battery backup with solar or line voltage to keep them charged is an interesting thought. but, I keep thinking, what if power is out for a week... (I worry too much).
I keep coming back to a propane (no natural gas where we are at) as it seems the best option for a no touch system.
My house and pumps are on different feeds also.... so, one or two generators becomes the question... or run a separate gas line to separate generators or one large generator and separate out the power feeds.
check and see, many of the pumps are 3 phase and are electronically converted. The generator signal has to be very clean from what I understand, or it will take out the electronics.
IF you do go with a propane system, some propane companies give a discount for a complete fill if you have a 1000 gallon tank. It doesn't matter how much it takes to top off the tank, you still get the discount. So check that out as well. An above ground rental is much cheaper that a buried, purchased tank. So...
I will keep watching this thread...
Post by: 300rum on January 25, 2024, 05:58:22 AM
Then I have a Simple Pump Deep Well Pump. https://simplepump.com/products/deep-well-pump (https://simplepump.com/products/deep-well-pump)
I'm going to be installing or at least having on hand the solar option soon. https://simplepump.com/our-pumps/solar-power (https://simplepump.com/our-pumps/solar-power)
The simple pump is very high quality and would be fine alone for a family in an emergency but I have animals and a garden. We had a power outage for 8+ hours when it was over 100 degrees a few years back and picked up the Honda, quickly!
Post by: Whitpirate on January 25, 2024, 06:14:41 AM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 25, 2024, 08:55:44 AM
interesting discussion. I am in the same boat, trying to figure how to power my well pumps when the power goes out.
Re. Reidus's comment: I have a pump in the well that is about 40 amps, that feeds a cistern that has a 35 amp pump that feeds the line to the house. That was about as small as I could go and still meet the needs of the house. I was very surprised the pump had to be so big...
As for power requirements... there is something... I think it is called "armature lock" amperage that defines how large the generator needs to be. That is, as I understand it, the power required to start the motion of the pump. It is significantly higher than the run amperage.
I have thought of a gasoline generator as others suggested. The "new" gas has a habit of killing carburetors. so, for me that is out.
Battery backup with solar or line voltage to keep them charged is an interesting thought. but, I keep thinking, what if power is out for a week... (I worry too much).
I keep coming back to a propane (no natural gas where we are at) as it seems the best option for a no touch system.
My house and pumps are on different feeds also.... so, one or two generators becomes the question... or run a separate gas line to separate generators or one large generator and separate out the power feeds.
check and see, many of the pumps are 3 phase and are electronically converted. The generator signal has to be very clean from what I understand, or it will take out the electronics.
IF you do go with a propane system, some propane companies give a discount for a complete fill if you have a 1000 gallon tank. It doesn't matter how much it takes to top off the tank, you still get the discount. So check that out as well. An above ground rental is much cheaper that a buried, purchased tank. So...
I will keep watching this thread...
I have similar setup, electrician said to move well circuit to its own separate breaker panel next to meter so it and house panel can connect to one generator via one or two transfer switches.
Total cost for system was $20k :-0
Holding off for now. I have a storage tank running a supplimental 12V pump off that to keep pressure may be better idea.
Post by: andersonjk4 on January 25, 2024, 08:56:38 AM
Take a look at the EcoFlow Delta Ultra. Or just a delta Pro. I’m looking to go ultra with two batteries and a smart home panel and run the house. Solar I put and generator charging too. Ultra isn’t cheap but it’s cheaper than a generac auto start for me.
:yeah:
And Home Depot has them onsale today
https://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoFlow-3600W-Output-7200W-Peak-Push-Button-Start-Battery-Generator-DELTA-Pro-w-LFP-Battery-Fast-Charging-Home-Camping-RVs-DELTAPro-US/318689313 (https://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoFlow-3600W-Output-7200W-Peak-Push-Button-Start-Battery-Generator-DELTA-Pro-w-LFP-Battery-Fast-Charging-Home-Camping-RVs-DELTAPro-US/318689313)
Post by: Reidus on January 25, 2024, 01:58:02 PM
A 12v washdown pump for a boat will do 4-5gpm, enough to run 1 appliance...maybe 2 at 50-60psi. It already has a pressure switch and will turn on and off based on pressure. Max draw of 10A. With 2 100ah lead acid batteries figure 100ah of available power means a minimum of 10 hours of solid runtime but most likely more. So for $200 for a pump, some plumbing parts, a 100gal tank, and 2 deep cycle batteries, you'd probably be good for a couple days.
Post by: b0bbyg on January 25, 2024, 02:00:19 PM
Take a look at the EcoFlow Delta Ultra. Or just a delta Pro. I’m looking to go ultra with two batteries and a smart home panel and run the house. Solar I put and generator charging too. Ultra isn’t cheap but it’s cheaper than a generac auto start for me.
:yeah:
And Home Depot has them onsale today
https://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoFlow-3600W-Output-7200W-Peak-Push-Button-Start-Battery-Generator-DELTA-Pro-w-LFP-Battery-Fast-Charging-Home-Camping-RVs-DELTAPro-US/318689313 (https://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoFlow-3600W-Output-7200W-Peak-Push-Button-Start-Battery-Generator-DELTA-Pro-w-LFP-Battery-Fast-Charging-Home-Camping-RVs-DELTAPro-US/318689313)
Weight is not too horrible, think I could drag that where needed. :chuckle:
Post by: huntinguy on January 26, 2024, 05:30:12 AM
If you use a soft start or vfd your peak draw of your pump will be approximately the same as the FLA.
A 12v washdown pump for a boat will do 4-5gpm, enough to run 1 appliance...maybe 2 at 50-60psi. It already has a pressure switch and will turn on and off based on pressure. Max draw of 10A. With 2 100ah lead acid batteries figure 100ah of available power means a minimum of 10 hours of solid runtime but most likely more. So for $200 for a pump, some plumbing parts, a 100gal tank, and 2 deep cycle batteries, you'd probably be good for a couple days.
interesting... good information there. thank you.
in my case, I have a draw line in my cistern for the fire department... I could pull from that and bypass my main pump...
Post by: Magnum_Willys on January 26, 2024, 06:11:34 AM
Post by: Zardoz on February 11, 2024, 09:17:00 PM
https://simplepump.com/
Post by: Magnum_Willys on February 11, 2024, 09:25:52 PM
Post by: b0bbyg on February 11, 2024, 09:58:18 PM
We are fortunate that septic is gravity system, so buckets to flush has that covered. I do have 300 gallon container in green house that is for stabilizing temps, but also emergency flushing/washing water.
Big thing is protecting against freeze when power drops. Battery power might get me by but genny probably cheaper. Could use batteries to run small heater in a pinch. Truck has a big inverter, but don't think big enough to power well.
Lots of options and fun to look at potential solutions. Hoping I won't need one until next winter.
Post by: CP on February 12, 2024, 02:53:12 PM
With a bigger inverter, it would run your pump. It’s just a Harbor Freight cart with some LiFePO4 batteries, an inverter and a battery charger. It even has head lights. A lot cheaper than Ecoflow or similar power stations.
Post by: b0bbyg on February 12, 2024, 10:08:50 PM
Here’s a DIY rolling power station that I put together to power tools when I’m out of range to an outlet. And, it has kept my house partially powered during outages.
With a bigger inverter, it would run your pump. It’s just a Harbor Freight cart with some LiFePO4 batteries, an inverter and a battery charger. It even has head lights. A lot cheaper than Ecoflow or similar power stations.
Pretty cool :tup:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 13, 2024, 06:57:32 AM
Post by: elkaholic33 on February 13, 2024, 08:24:32 AM
The inrush current for starting the motor can be -
6-10 times full load current for a starter (generator manufacturer's use 3-4x)
1.8-3 x for a soft start
1.4ish for a VFD.
Full load current on 240V motors-
3/4HP - 6.9 amps
1HP - 8 amps
1.5HP - 10 amps
Starting motors is tough on generators.
7KW generator is 30A at 240V, 1 phase.
If you have a 1HP, deep well motor with 4x inrush, that would be 32 amps. May not start on a 7KW generator with a starter.
This is all theory. Anyone have practical use of a setup? @huntinguy?
Post by: CP on February 13, 2024, 10:52:50 AM