Post by: boneaddict on February 13, 2024, 11:52:42 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 13, 2024, 11:57:36 AM
Post by: jstone on February 13, 2024, 12:27:26 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 13, 2024, 12:33:36 PM
Post by: boneaddict on February 15, 2024, 05:11:04 AM
This should spice them up a bit. Here was mine….
“I’ve been feeding the eagles since the early 80s. They seem to appreciate it, if not like the extra table fare. Oh, and don’t worry about lead, I have yet to see a high velocity round not exit the coyote.“
Post by: nwwanderer on February 15, 2024, 06:41:28 AM
Post by: timberfaller on February 15, 2024, 10:14:05 AM
Over the years, I've left a bunch(four legged creatures) for the eagles and crows and magpies to clean up!! :tup:
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 15, 2024, 10:16:26 AM
Post by: Goshawk on April 14, 2024, 10:31:56 AM
Post by: mountainman on April 19, 2024, 09:43:53 PM
Sad to see the Valley change for the worst!! The bleeding heart liberals and tree hugger's have ruined a nice place to live!! :bash:Along the river below Goudy grade! Remember👍
Over the years, I've left a bunch(four legged creatures) for the eagles and crows and magpies to clean up!! :tup:
Post by: Curley1 on August 28, 2024, 07:13:15 AM
Post by: Angus on August 28, 2024, 07:37:21 AM
Post by: elkboy on August 28, 2024, 08:21:23 AM
Just a reminder, if you're going to leave critters out in the open for Eagles to find, don't use lead core bullets. I have great success with the Barns varmint line. Explosive results without the risk of killing raptors from lead poisoning, and putting us all in a bad light.
Thank you. Well said. Most of the eagles and other raptors admitted to veterinary care have toxic levels of lead in their blood (for example, 76% of the balds and goldens admitted for all causes to the WSU vet college).
Post by: Katmai Guy on August 28, 2024, 10:00:20 AM
Just a reminder, if you're going to leave critters out in the open for Eagles to find, don't use lead core bullets. I have great success with the Barns varmint line. Explosive results without the risk of killing raptors from lead poisoning, and putting us all in a bad light.
Thank you. Well said. Most of the eagles and other raptors admitted to veterinary care have toxic levels of lead in their blood (for example, 76% of the balds and goldens admitted for all causes to the WSU vet college).
Most likely from unrecovered ducks, geese and upland birds?
Post by: timberfaller on August 28, 2024, 10:59:49 AM
Sad to see the Valley change for the worst!! The bleeding heart liberals and tree hugger's have ruined a nice place to live!! :bash:Along the river below Goudy grade! Remember👍
Over the years, I've left a bunch(four legged creatures) for the eagles and crows and magpies to clean up!! :tup:
Oh yes I do!! :chuckle: :chuckle: :IBCOOL:
Post by: elkboy on August 28, 2024, 11:17:12 AM
Just a reminder, if you're going to leave critters out in the open for Eagles to find, don't use lead core bullets. I have great success with the Barns varmint line. Explosive results without the risk of killing raptors from lead poisoning, and putting us all in a bad light.
Thank you. Well said. Most of the eagles and other raptors admitted to veterinary care have toxic levels of lead in their blood (for example, 76% of the balds and goldens admitted for all causes to the WSU vet college).
Most likely from unrecovered ducks, geese and upland birds?
Could play a role, but the data suggest that big game (deer, elk) and coyote hunting are the most important. Stauber and others (2010, Journal of Avian Medicine and Surgery) is one of the studies I was thinking of. Lead levels in birds admitted to the vet hospital at WSU, as well as number of birds admitted, were low in spring and summer, start to rise in the fall, and then peak in winter (January to March), suggesting that carcass scavenging in fall and winter is resulting in the lead exposure.
Post by: boneaddict on August 29, 2024, 12:44:16 PM
Post by: MR5x5 on August 29, 2024, 12:59:25 PM
Post by: HillHound on August 29, 2024, 01:11:30 PM
Post by: elkboy on August 29, 2024, 01:46:14 PM
So 26 birds with detrimental levels of lead in 17 yrs. Still not good, but does not appear to be overly problematic...
Good point- I'd say that is a sample (from just one study), as those are just the ones that are hauled to the emergency room in Pullman for all causes, not just lead intoxication.
Post by: elkboy on August 29, 2024, 01:56:29 PM
I’m sure there is an invincible force field that keeps them from scavenging in the dumps?? Guaranteed they pick up heavy metals there and sometimes I see as many eagles as crows picking through the dump when I’m there. But yep it’s got to be the big bad hunters and their lead bullets.
Well, I don't want to thread-jack (too late, I guess?), or start an argument. I'd agree that dumps are certainly a way for critters to get exposed to heavy metals. I'd wonder, though, if dumpster-diving wouldn't be a year-round source of lead (old lead paint chips would be the leading contaminant, from what I've read), and doesn't explain the fall-winter spike of lead in these birds. A lot of other studies, based on hundreds or thousands of birds, have found the same, and a lot have strong evidence that gut-pile or carcass lead is a big source. Fortunately, it's one we can control as hunters, by switching to non-lead bullets for the hunt (blast away with lead at the range- that's not the problem!). Shoot all the coyotes you want, I'd say, but consider using a non-lead bullet if you're going to leave the carcass out there.
And I'm a hunter myself- last thing I'd want to do is paint us as "bad"- I just think this is an issue worth considering. I switched to brass (for muzzy) and copper (for modern) ten years ago, and am darn happy with those options.
A few studies- lots more out there if one wants to search.
Wayland and Bollinger, 1999, “Lead exposure and poisoning in bald eagles and golden eagles in the Canadian prairie provinces”, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0269749198002012
Bedrosian et al., 2012, “Lead exposure in bald eagles from big game hunting, the continental implications and successful mitigation efforts”, https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0051978
Franson and Russell, 2014, “Lead and eagles: demographic and pathological characteristics of poisoning, and exposure levels associated with other causes of mortality”, https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10646-014-1337-0
Cruz-Martinez et al., 2012, “Lead from spent ammunition: a source of exposure and poisoning in bald eagles”, Lead from spent ammunition: (jstor.org)
Post by: hunterednate on August 29, 2024, 03:46:05 PM
Just a reminder, if you're going to leave critters out in the open for Eagles to find, don't use lead core bullets. I have great success with the Barns varmint line. Explosive results without the risk of killing raptors from lead poisoning, and putting us all in a bad light.
Thank you. Well said. Most of the eagles and other raptors admitted to veterinary care have toxic levels of lead in their blood (for example, 76% of the balds and goldens admitted for all causes to the WSU vet college).
Most likely from unrecovered ducks, geese and upland birds?
Non-toxic shot has been required for waterfowl since 1991. More and more upland areas require non-toxic as well.
Post by: Goshawk on September 22, 2024, 09:25:06 PM
Just a reminder, if you're going to leave critters out in the open for Eagles to find, don't use lead core bullets. I have great success with the Barns varmint line. Explosive results without the risk of killing raptors from lead poisoning, and putting us all in a bad light.
Thank you. Well said. Most of the eagles and other raptors admitted to veterinary care have toxic levels of lead in their blood (for example, 76% of the balds and goldens admitted for all causes to the WSU vet college).
Most likely from unrecovered ducks, geese and upland birds?
Actually, big game gut piles and even coyotes are the biggest cause. Waterfowl and steel shot only, and upland game is found more by ground based predators than avian. Lead core bullets fragment to some degree leaving lead in sizes ranging from microscopic size to peanut size. The bird just tears out chunks and swallows, no chewing. Their gizzards use any hard particles from rocks, to bullets as a grinding stone to further break down the meal. Any lead is not passed through the digestive system like we do, but held in the gizzard and stays there until it's ground itself completely away and digested. That's what makes birds so subjectable to lead poisoning.
Post by: boneaddict on September 23, 2024, 07:31:15 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on September 23, 2024, 07:54:31 AM
I read a couple years ago that California still has big spikes in birds with toxic metals in their blood. This being years after changing hunting ammo to non toxic and having a 99% compliance rate. This includes birds in coastal areas like Mendocino, so far from the Nevada/Arizona/Oregon borders where lead is still allowed.I’m sure there is an invincible force field that keeps them from scavenging in the dumps?? Guaranteed they pick up heavy metals there and sometimes I see as many eagles as crows picking through the dump when I’m there. But yep it’s got to be the big bad hunters and their lead bullets.
Well, I don't want to thread-jack (too late, I guess?), or start an argument. I'd agree that dumps are certainly a way for critters to get exposed to heavy metals. I'd wonder, though, if dumpster-diving wouldn't be a year-round source of lead (old lead paint chips would be the leading contaminant, from what I've read), and doesn't explain the fall-winter spike of lead in these birds. A lot of other studies, based on hundreds or thousands of birds, have found the same, and a lot have strong evidence that gut-pile or carcass lead is a big source. Fortunately, it's one we can control as hunters, by switching to non-lead bullets for the hunt (blast away with lead at the range- that's not the problem!). Shoot all the coyotes you want, I'd say, but consider using a non-lead bullet if you're going to leave the carcass out there.
And I'm a hunter myself- last thing I'd want to do is paint us as "bad"- I just think this is an issue worth considering. I switched to brass (for muzzy) and copper (for modern) ten years ago, and am darn happy with those options.
A few studies- lots more out there if one wants to search.
Wayland and Bollinger, 1999, “Lead exposure and poisoning in bald eagles and golden eagles in the Canadian prairie provinces”, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0269749198002012
Bedrosian et al., 2012, “Lead exposure in bald eagles from big game hunting, the continental implications and successful mitigation efforts”, https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0051978
Franson and Russell, 2014, “Lead and eagles: demographic and pathological characteristics of poisoning, and exposure levels associated with other causes of mortality”, https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10646-014-1337-0
Cruz-Martinez et al., 2012, “Lead from spent ammunition: a source of exposure and poisoning in bald eagles”, Lead from spent ammunition: (jstor.org)
Post by: ghosthunter on September 23, 2024, 08:51:37 AM
Could birds be locating lead from natural sources?
Post by: KP-Skagit on September 23, 2024, 09:13:52 AM
One thing is for sure.... Swans aren't scavenging coyote carcasses.
Post by: Longfield1 on September 23, 2024, 09:17:29 AM
For what its worth, a friend works for WDFW in Skagit Valley and one of the things he does is recover swan carcasses/crippled swans. He said just about every sick swan or swan that flies into a power line has lead poisoning. He's a waterfowler himself, with no agenda, just reporting the facts he observes.
One thing is for sure.... Swans aren't scavenging coyote carcasses.
Does he have a working theory that could explain the lead?
Post by: salt n sage90 on September 23, 2024, 09:36:12 AM
For what its worth, a friend works for WDFW in Skagit Valley and one of the things he does is recover swan carcasses/crippled swans. He said just about every sick swan or swan that flies into a power line has lead poisoning. He's a waterfowler himself, with no agenda, just reporting the facts he observes.
One thing is for sure.... Swans aren't scavenging coyote carcasses.
Does he have a working theory that could explain the lead?
He says that for one we don't know what all happens further north in wintering grounds and along their migration corridor.
Also, that there are a lot of people out in the Skagit flats that shoot skeet in their backyards right into potato fields.
But I have a sneaking suspicion that there's more at work than that.
Post by: Oldguy on September 23, 2024, 09:48:27 AM