Post by: Wolfdog2314 on February 20, 2024, 10:27:22 AM
Here’s my gear pattern, with setup bearings and setup union pinion bearing race. Backlash is at .006. Preload of 12 or so on the pinion.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240220/aa4f49323b899f3ec13a4a8a016618ad.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240220/219c5bbe90eac4d23177db311dc45786.jpg)
Any opinions on what I should try? Or run it??? I have these posted on a Facebook group. Just trying to get some opinions. Thanks!
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Post by: Wolfdog2314 on February 20, 2024, 01:26:04 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240220/027512f4002020650cc49bd45846bedf.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240220/7d2dbadd1fbd5bb9aabfa60479cc9112.jpg)
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Post by: deerlick on February 20, 2024, 01:33:24 PM
Post by: James on February 20, 2024, 02:23:51 PM
Put that pinion deeper in, and reduce the spacers/shims on your ring gear side carrier bearing to get the backlash back in check. You will need to add more shims on the opposing carrier bearing to keep your carrier bearing preload in spec.
What is your process for setting up a rear end? I get pinion depth and ring gear side shim pack dialed in first, then calculate out the number of shims needed on the non ring gear side carrier bearing.
Oddly, this is the best visual I have seen showing how changes affect the pattern:
Post by: Wolfdog2314 on February 20, 2024, 02:33:17 PM
looks like your pinion is to close, take 3 thousandths shim out of the pinion depth and check again.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240220/3b09785696d8d64fa91bb49a9867e6a8.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240220/171cca1a76e6af16fe67dcc64dc26328.jpg)
This is basically how this pattern was ran, with the pinion depth decreased slightly, before I got to what I have now.
Post by: Wolfdog2314 on February 20, 2024, 02:41:56 PM
Unless I am mixing up your drive side and coast side it to me like your pinion is too far out.I labeled below, the coast and drive side.
Put that pinion deeper in, and reduce the spacers/shims on your ring gear side carrier bearing to get the backlash back in check. You will need to add more shims on the opposing carrier bearing to keep your carrier bearing preload in spec.
What is your process for setting up a rear end? I get pinion depth and ring gear side shim pack dialed in first, then calculate out the number of shims needed on the non ring gear side carrier bearing.
Oddly, this is the best visual I have seen showing how changes affect the pattern:
At .009 it says in still in spec (.006-.010)
I’ve watched virtually every video and write up out there. Just trying to get some others opinions. That is a great video for sure!
It’s tough getting conflicting opinions at the same time tho ugh!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240220/fce77369343431c94c6fe71a53fd93e5.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240220/2c5e0e04f722e8336b0da5a27f0f9523.jpg)
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Post by: James on February 20, 2024, 03:57:48 PM
Your pattern with 0.06" BL isn't bad.
The 0.09" pattern the coast side it too close to the toe and I would honestly redo the pattern on the drive side, it's not clear to me what's going on there.
What's your process? It seems like you are not making adjustments systematically in a way so you can get what you want. I know I am very OCD with setting up gears, but if I am honest it makes it faster in the long run.
Post by: Wolfdog2314 on February 20, 2024, 04:32:44 PM
I am a big fan of centering face to flank and being about a 1/3 up from the toe. Ideally with both coast and drive, but that's not always possible.
Your pattern with 0.06" BL isn't bad.
The 0.09" pattern the coast side it too close to the toe and I would honestly redo the pattern on the drive side, it's not clear to me what's going on there.
What's your process? It seems like you are not making adjustments systematically in a way so you can get what you want. I know I am very OCD with setting up gears, but if I am honest it makes it faster in the long run.
That’s why I’m here, to get advice from someone who has done this plenty of times to know! I appreciate it.
My process has been to set pinion preload, for setup bearings around 10.
Set backlash between 6-10 thou.
Run pattern.
Adjust pinion depth per the pictures/guides I find online.
The difference between the two sets of patterns here was the addition of a .005 shim to the pinion. So if I removed it, that would go in favor of what you originally suggested to reduce pinion depth.
Thanks again, total noob to this!
Post by: James on February 20, 2024, 05:28:58 PM
As you know, changing pinon depth with shims will change backlash, BUT moving the ring closer or further away from the pinion using carrier bearing shims will too.
Rule of thumb:
Moving the carrier 0.010” toward the pinion to decrease the backlash by 0.007”
Moving the carrier 0.010” away from the pinion to increase the backlash by 0.007”
This dana service manual is basically the procedure I use to get my shim packs correct on the pinion, and both carrier bearings. I know it's for a D60, but the procedure is the same. With a little digging you can find the D44 manual.
https://media.spicerparts.com/cfs/files/media/LYRk9ScYgfJ9eBT6u/AXSM-0070.pdf?token=eyJhdXRoVG9rZW4iOiIifQ%3D%3D&store=original
I don't have a pinion depth tool, so I typically start with the pinion shims that it came with and make a change based on the markings (page 15).
Then do steps 11-34 on pages 13-21. The carrier shim procedure is more or less steps 11-12 and 30-34.
Post by: Wolfdog2314 on February 20, 2024, 06:43:53 PM
Couple things that might help you out:
As you know, changing pinon depth with shims will change backlash, BUT moving the ring closer or further away from the pinion using carrier bearing shims will too.
Rule of thumb:
Moving the carrier 0.010” toward the pinion to decrease the backlash by 0.007”
Moving the carrier 0.010” away from the pinion to increase the backlash by 0.007”
This dana service manual is basically the procedure I use to get my shim packs correct on the pinion, and both carrier bearings. I know it's for a D60, but the procedure is the same. With a little digging you can find the D44 manual.
https://media.spicerparts.com/cfs/files/media/LYRk9ScYgfJ9eBT6u/AXSM-0070.pdf?token=eyJhdXRoVG9rZW4iOiIifQ%3D%3D&store=original
I don't have a pinion depth tool, so I typically start with the pinion shims that it came with and make a change based on the markings (page 15).
Then do steps 11-34 on pages 13-21. The carrier shim procedure is more or less steps 11-12 and 30-34.
All great stuff, thanks so much! I’ll start again within the next couple days and post my results back here again. This time a little more methodical and with more patience lol
Post by: deerlick on February 20, 2024, 09:33:59 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on February 20, 2024, 11:55:07 PM
Post by: deerlick on February 21, 2024, 08:08:51 AM
Post by: James on February 21, 2024, 09:19:35 AM
https://media.spicerparts.com/cfs/files/media/XtCh3tGhAaZjJh5Ht/5310-3.pdf?token=eyJhdXRoVG9rZW4iOiIifQ%3D%3D&store=original
Post by: Wolfdog2314 on February 21, 2024, 11:32:54 AM
I’ll be digging back in to it over the next couple days. I appreciate the tips and links!
Additionally, this truck is going to be a street queen for the most part. My dad passed down his 1970 highboy to be last spring. Not looking to use it for much 4x4. But at the same time I want to have the front end fully serviced/rebuilt. I’ve replaced everything from the outside down to the gears now. (Hubs, spindles, wheel bearings, calipers, all the seals, and now to finish up with these bearings)
Post by: Wolfdog2314 on February 22, 2024, 01:24:00 PM
Backlash is at .006
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240222/57ff48818eeda58275a393fd814d8811.jpg)
Coast side^
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240222/280bb388b2a69afe8a492474ff74cf32.jpg)
Drive side^
If I increase backlash to .008 would this get me even closer? At the same time, if this is run-able maybe I’ll stay here? I’ll leave it as is until you helpful folks give your, much more than my, expert opinion! Thanks!
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Post by: Wolfdog2314 on February 23, 2024, 08:50:26 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240223/70c402b8db7db629baa436dcd0fae113.jpg)
Ran another pattern with the compound spread on a little better.
From what I understand on a high pinion dif, the DRIVE side is the most important?
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Post by: James on February 23, 2024, 10:19:58 AM
I get the feeling you are adjusting backlash by just changing pinion shims, and that's not going to fix your problem. Follow the dana procedure, but I suspect you need to move the ring gear closer to the pinion using carrier bearing shims and reduce your pinion shims to pull the backlash.
You hear it all over the place that coast is the most important. I suspect that is just from a mechanics perspective, because a noisy R&P is going to bring that rig back into the shop. I get my drive where I want it (centered face to flank and about 1/3 up from toe) and make sure the coast is reasonable. If the coast is unacceptable I might change my drive a bit or backlash to get it were it will be acceptable.
Follow the dana procedure for setting up your carrier bearing shim pack, I bet you will get the pattern you are looking for.
Post by: deerlick on February 23, 2024, 10:33:05 AM