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Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: Alchase on March 26, 2024, 09:25:05 AM

Title: Marines Ditch 100-Year-Old Marksmanship Standards
Post by: Alchase on March 26, 2024, 09:25:05 AM: Marines Ditch 100-Year-Old Marksmanship Standards
Accuracy still matters, but now speed is in the mix as well.

The United States Marine Corps announced earlier this month it is changing the shooting standards to which it has adhered for more than a century. The new system will reflect accuracy as well as the speed at which a Marine delivers hits on target.

Re-evaluation of the century-old marksmanship qualification standards began in 2018, when a combat lethality study found an unexpected loss in proficiency in engagements at unknown distances, or when the Marine or target were on the move. The Marine Corps is investing $34 million to better train its troops with the new system, phasing out an approach that required delivering 30 rounds at established distance in two minutes. The old scoring system didn’t differentiate between lethal shots and those that may not stop an aggressor or readily identify distances problematic for a particular shooter.

“This is about increasing lethality,” Col. Gregory Jones, commander of the Weapons Training Battalion—part of Training Command at Marine Corps Base Quantico in Virginia—told Stars and Stripes. “This is not your granddad’s rifle range.”

Marines are required to annually prequalify and qualify with their rifles. If a prequalification score met standards, it could be accepted for both in the past. Now it must be at the expert level, not just at marksman or sharpshooter performance, to do so.

In addition, the Marine Corps has begun allowing entry-level shooters to support rifles with their magazines. The change reflects improvements in magazine design and strength as well as widespread success using the approach in civilian competitions.

“The rifle range in 1907, it’s not bad or good. It’s what we had when we had … a 1903 Springfield [rifle], which was an 1890s technology,” Jones explained to Stars and Stripes. “Now we have an M-16A4. The test is not as true a measure of lethality as it was when we had older, outdated technology.”

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/marines-ditch-100-year-old-marksmanship-standards/
Title: Re: Marines Ditch 100-Year-Old Marksmanship Standards
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 26, 2024, 09:32:37 AM: Preparing for an enemy known to send in huge human waves that overwhelm by size?
Title: Re: Marines Ditch 100-Year-Old Marksmanship Standards
Post by: Pathfinder101 on March 26, 2024, 10:04:33 AM: I wouldn't read too much into this. The prior standard was set for bolt action rifles with a 5 round mag capacity to be fired several hundred yards from a trench. New standard just reflects modern technology. Back in the day you were taught to secure your rifle in prone with your sling. No one takes time to do that in combat anymore because you don't have a trench to hide in for 3 minutes while you set it up. :twocents:
Title: Re: Marines Ditch 100-Year-Old Marksmanship Standards
Post by: Buckjunkie on March 26, 2024, 11:13:39 AM: Sounds like the qualifications should have changed a few decades ago. The M16 A1 was used as early as 1964 and became the US military’s standard weapon in 1969.
Title: Re: Marines Ditch 100-Year-Old Marksmanship Standards
Post by: zwickeyman on March 26, 2024, 11:42:50 AM: Of course they did. Just like demands of all the branches in Bidens military. Weaker and weaker
Title: Re: Marines Ditch 100-Year-Old Marksmanship Standards
Post by: Pathfinder101 on March 26, 2024, 11:52:03 AM: Quote from: zwickeyman on March 26, 2024, 11:42:50 AM
Of course they did. Just like demands of all the branches in Bidens military. Weaker and weaker
Not sure this is weaker. Less focus on long range slow fire unsupported shooting, and more focus on rapid fire, close-range, moving targets and moving shooters. I have a son in Army Spec Ops. Their shooting has become similarly focused.
Title: Re: Marines Ditch 100-Year-Old Marksmanship Standards
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 26, 2024, 11:53:12 AM: Quote from: zwickeyman on March 26, 2024, 11:42:50 AM
Of course they did. Just like demands of all the branches in Bidens military. Weaker and weaker
how is making the standard higher and adapting marksmanship skills to improve lethality making it weaker?
Title: Re: Marines Ditch 100-Year-Old Marksmanship Standards
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 26, 2024, 11:53:44 AM: Pathfinder beat me to it :chuckle:
Title: Re: Marines Ditch 100-Year-Old Marksmanship Standards
Post by: zwickeyman on March 26, 2024, 12:01:46 PM: I should have read the entire thing. Im just used to this administration making our military weaker in general so I assumed

My bad
Title: Re: Marines Ditch 100-Year-Old Marksmanship Standards
Post by: Pathfinder101 on March 26, 2024, 12:09:05 PM: In general, I agree that's a pretty safe assumption.
Title: Re: Marines Ditch 100-Year-Old Marksmanship Standards
Post by: Longfield1 on March 26, 2024, 01:43:32 PM: Its been over a decade since i went to boot camp and there were distinct qualifications for different skills. Table 1 was originally with a loop sling around your support arm and it was to enhance marksmanship. We also used iron sights which i think we were one of the last companies to use before the ACOG was standard in boot camp. Then there was Table 2 which was close range fast shooting to enhance point of aim shooting where your not focusing on getting that perfect sight picture/alignment. Table 2 was about getting use to point shooting. Table 3 i only did once but that was doing table 2 at night with NVG's with some forward advancing shots. I know there were more but for me 1 & 2 were all that i needed.

I think the change reflects who the next war will be with. We fought a unconventional war for over 20 years now its time to prepare for a conventional war it seems.
Title: Re: Marines Ditch 100-Year-Old Marksmanship Standards
Post by: CasterlyRock on March 26, 2024, 04:34:50 PM: The range changed like 3 times over a 5 year period for me. Introduction of ACOG, adding whatever the CQB box / failure drill stuff for score. I even shot the M249 for score once I think?

It doesn't even mention any changes, just that it also accounts for speed. Maybe they can stop pulling those god awful sleds up and down all day and wasting life in the butts.