Post by: dagon on April 12, 2024, 11:32:21 AM
Post by: jrebel on April 12, 2024, 11:40:02 AM
Here is a good video.
Both calibers are capable of taking an elk. Pick a good bullet and keep ranges reasonable. With a good bullet, I wouldn't hesitate to use the .243 to 200-300 yards.
You will get a lot of opposing responses. Take it for what it's worth (free advice)... :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Fidelk on April 12, 2024, 11:49:07 AM
Post by: Mtnwalker on April 12, 2024, 11:56:08 AM
Post by: brokenvet on April 12, 2024, 12:19:20 PM
Between the two, the .243 is the better choice. Pair that with a solid copper bullet.
Post by: spookgus on April 12, 2024, 12:26:37 PM
Post by: jrebel on April 12, 2024, 12:32:00 PM
Post by: Mtnwalker on April 12, 2024, 12:41:12 PM
Post by: jrebel on April 12, 2024, 12:48:28 PM
All that being said.....not all mono's are built the same, so a I am speaking of one particular mono.
Post by: bigfish51 on April 12, 2024, 12:56:18 PM
Post by: Mtnwalker on April 12, 2024, 01:06:44 PM
You fix the small wound channel by making sure you have adequate speed. This was an old problem with mono's of the past. I am currently loading an 80 grain HHT in a 6.5 creedmoor at 3675 fps and it will leave a bigger wound channel than any 140 grain cup and core on the market at reasonable hunting ranges....and they will also exit which gives two holes to bleed from.
All that being said.....not all mono's are built the same, so a I am speaking of one particular mono.
Roger. With posts like these I tend to assume most are working with off the shelf ammo options
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 12, 2024, 01:20:31 PM
You fix the small wound channel by making sure you have adequate speed. This was an old problem with mono's of the past. I am currently loading an 80 grain HHT in a 6.5 creedmoor at 3675 fps and it will leave a bigger wound channel than any 140 grain cup and core on the market at reasonable hunting ranges....and they will also exit which gives two holes to bleed from.you've killed with every 6.5 cup and core bullet on the market?! That's impressive.
All that being said.....not all mono's are built the same, so a I am speaking of one particular mono.
Post by: Bullkllr on April 12, 2024, 01:25:38 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 12, 2024, 01:36:03 PM
Post by: jrebel on April 12, 2024, 01:42:33 PM
You fix the small wound channel by making sure you have adequate speed. This was an old problem with mono's of the past. I am currently loading an 80 grain HHT in a 6.5 creedmoor at 3675 fps and it will leave a bigger wound channel than any 140 grain cup and core on the market at reasonable hunting ranges....and they will also exit which gives two holes to bleed from.you've killed with every 6.5 cup and core bullet on the market?! That's impressive.
All that being said.....not all mono's are built the same, so a I am speaking of one particular mono.
(Insert donkey emoji). You are always looking for a fight.
I apologize to the OP…..no one should answer questions on ballistics. Karl is the leading expert on this topic and he will definitely let everyone know it!! I noticed he didn’t offer any thoughts or suggestions to the OP question, but is quick to be critical of others post.
I have shot many many cup and core bullets (not all in the 6.5) and have seen good and bad performance across the board. There are a lot of great cup and core bullets….matter of fact I still shoot quite a few. I have also shot many of the major bullet manufacturers mono bullets with very mixed results. It wasn’t till a couple years ago I would make the statement above…..but I have experienced amazing results from my current mono of choice. Wound channels are the best I have ever seen. Terminal performance is second to none. Add complete pass through on all animals with the same bullets and I would say…..cup and core bullets (even the best I have used) don’t compare when looking at all factors involved in the OP’s question.
If I’m gonna use a small caliber on big game animals , I want penetration and optimal terminal performance. If the OP had ask about a 300 wm, I would say a good cup and core or good mono would be sufficient. Now I know, I should pm Karl before offering my opinion on terminal performance of bullets. My bad!!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 12, 2024, 01:51:29 PM
You've never seen me say a single thing about hammer bullets on here ever. Full stop. Why? Because I've never used them. I don't speak to things I don't have first hand experience with.
And I did answer the OP's question so not sure what you're talking about :dunno:
I'm not looking for a fight but you seem to always take stuff so personally. I simply want honest and factual data shared and if I see something that doesn't look right I'm gonna question it as this community deserves such :twocents:
Post by: dagon on April 12, 2024, 02:02:39 PM
Post by: dagon on April 12, 2024, 02:07:38 PM
Compromise on a .25-35?
LOL. My first deer rifle was a .25-.35. For one year then my dad traded it for the model 336 .30-30 which i got my first 4 deer with
Post by: TeacherMan on April 12, 2024, 02:11:32 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 12, 2024, 03:11:30 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on April 12, 2024, 03:29:22 PM
But since I'm thinking I might be giving up hunting they could be looking for new homes.
Post by: Fidelk on April 12, 2024, 04:50:18 PM
Compromise on a .25-35?
LOL. My first deer rifle was a .25-.35. For one year then my dad traded it for the model 336 .30-30 which i got my first 4 deer with
Poacher's special......
Post by: JakeLand on April 13, 2024, 07:24:49 AM
Post by: chukardogs on April 13, 2024, 08:25:15 AM
Post by: dagon on April 13, 2024, 10:06:05 AM
Post by: C-Money on April 13, 2024, 10:25:31 AM
Post by: DeerThug on April 13, 2024, 04:38:52 PM
She is proficient with it so stick with it. Poke one in the lungs and done.
Post by: Kittitas26 on April 14, 2024, 07:32:59 PM
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on April 14, 2024, 08:59:47 PM
Post by: b23 on April 14, 2024, 11:50:02 PM
243 is a superior choice over a 30-30 for elk IMO.
:yeah:
Only way I'd choose a 30-30 with mono's would be if I had to because they were holding the 243 loaded with Berger's against my head.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 15, 2024, 06:08:27 AM
:chuckle: you arent wrong.243 is a superior choice over a 30-30 for elk IMO.
:yeah:
Only way I'd choose a 30-30 with mono's would be if I had to because they were holding the 243 loaded with Berger's against my head.
Post by: Alchase on April 15, 2024, 07:18:59 AM
Even if you do not reload, there are tons of decent .243 bullets available at most places you would expect to find ammo. Both my boys shot .243s (though one is a .243 WSSM) with great results.
One other caliber I would take a close look at is the 7MM-08, also a fantastic round.
Not as available as the .243, but certainly attainable.
I have a great historical respect for the 30-30. I knew a few old timers who shot it very well. And a 30-30 still would make a decent farm or truck gun. But even there, ARs have taken over those jobs and ran with it.
Post by: big wood on May 06, 2024, 10:06:22 PM
Post by: yakimanoob on May 08, 2024, 05:54:03 PM
Have fun!
Post by: OutHouse on May 08, 2024, 06:02:53 PM
Stay with the .243! :hello:
Post by: Crowfeather on May 09, 2024, 10:44:11 AM
You didn't ask for other calibers, but, I'm an absolute recoil weenie. I despise recoil. I have to say, between my .243 and my 6.5 CM in nearly identical rifles, I think the 6.5 is softer recoil and you get some more power from it. I'd describe the .243 as a "kick" and the 6.5 as a " hard push". The force feels the same, but the impact feels different. Hard to explain. I'd recommend it for another option.
Post by: hunter399 on May 09, 2024, 06:45:45 PM
Post by: Bob33 on May 09, 2024, 07:14:05 PM
"She has been using a .243 and got her first deer last year."
Familiarity with and confidence in a firearm is more important than which of these two calibers to select.
Post by: Call em in on May 10, 2024, 12:12:36 AM
Post by: BeerBugler on May 10, 2024, 06:56:28 AM
Post by: Taco280AI on May 10, 2024, 07:25:22 AM
Post by: BeerBugler on May 10, 2024, 07:51:53 AM
A light weight, thin jacket, target bullet on elk? Maybe if you're very picky about shot angles.
How much penetration do you feel is necessary on an elk? What makes a bullet a “target” bullet?
Post by: Taco280AI on May 10, 2024, 10:18:33 AM
Post by: BeerBugler on May 10, 2024, 12:28:08 PM
"ELD® Match (Extremely Low Drag Match) bullets are technologically advanced, enhanced accuracy TARGET bullets"
So for you, reality is what a marketing team tells you. If that’s how you feel, the eld-x is available in a 103. Two things can be true at once, a bullet can be inherently accurate and capable of superior tissue damage. Shoot whatever you’re confident with. Personally, I’m confident with things I’ve seen work. Give those heavy for caliber “target” bullets a try, see what you think.
Post by: hunter399 on May 10, 2024, 01:07:04 PM
"ELD® Match (Extremely Low Drag Match) bullets are technologically advanced, enhanced accuracy TARGET bullets"
So for you, reality is what a marketing team tells you. If that’s how you feel, the eld-x is available in a 103. Two things can be true at once, a bullet can be inherently accurate and capable of superior tissue damage. Shoot whatever you’re confident with. Personally, I’m confident with things I’ve seen work. Give those heavy for caliber “target” bullets a try, see what you think.
Shot a bear and a cougar 2022 with the 103 grain eldx .
No tracking,dumped both in there tracks.
A little bang flop,maybe a leg kicker.
Probably placed shot , they'll get the job done.
The eldm is a match target bullet.
I think construction,lead hardness ,and other factors are basically the same as eldx ,BC is tiny bit better on the match.
Pretty much same bullet.
Post by: Taco280AI on May 10, 2024, 01:12:12 PM
"ELD® Match (Extremely Low Drag Match) bullets are technologically advanced, enhanced accuracy TARGET bullets"
So for you, reality is what a marketing team tells you. If that’s how you feel, the eld-x is available in a 103. Two things can be true at once, a bullet can be inherently accurate and capable of superior tissue damage. Shoot whatever you’re confident with. Personally, I’m confident with things I’ve seen work. Give those heavy for caliber “target” bullets a try, see what you think.
Do you actually believe Berger because they call their target bullets hunting bullets?
First clue is they themselves classify it as a target bullet. Beyond that a thin jacketed hollow point that isn't bonded and doesn't retain the majority of its weight is a target bullet.
Broadside through the ribs, no problem. Quartering to or away, wouldn't do it with any of those. Can they work? Sure. But I'm not betting an elk on it.
Barnes LRX. Decent BC, very accurate, and 99% weight retention on deer and elk in my personal experience (of those I've actually recovered).
Post by: dagon on May 11, 2024, 09:58:29 AM
Post by: MeatMissile on June 03, 2024, 11:38:48 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on June 03, 2024, 12:08:25 PM
Thanks for all the input. Guess we'll stick with the .243. I will say thou and i've only shot one elk with my old marlin 30-30. It worked just fine. That was with standard Winchester 150 grain rounds at about 150 yards. One shot with open sights. It only went 40 yards.Watched my buddy shoot a 340 ish bull in the green river water shed a few years ago, he used his 243, shot it in the shoulder and flipped it over. We never found that bull, he got up and ran. Just don't shoot your bull in the shoulder.
Post by: Igor on June 03, 2024, 12:46:13 PM
Watched my buddy shoot a 340 ish bull in the green river water shed a few years ago, he used his 243, shot it in the shoulder and flipped it over. We never found that bull, he got up and ran. Just don't shoot your bull in the shoulder.
Just don't shoot your bull with a .243.
Post by: trophyhunt on June 03, 2024, 01:54:43 PM
agree!
Watched my buddy shoot a 340 ish bull in the green river water shed a few years ago, he used his 243, shot it in the shoulder and flipped it over. We never found that bull, he got up and ran. Just don't shoot your bull in the shoulder.
Just don't shoot your bull with a .243.
Post by: Fidelk on June 03, 2024, 02:04:59 PM
Post by: Okanagan on June 04, 2024, 09:07:50 AM
I have had excellent results over decades with the 95 grain Nosler Partition, though mostly on deer. If using factory, pick a tough premium bullet that will penetrate a long ways. Frangible bullets that expand explosively inside the lungs kill quickly, but not all of my elk have volunteered an ideal broadside shot into the lungs.
Lucky man to hunt with a grand-daughter!
Post by: Taco280AI on June 04, 2024, 10:04:42 AM
This may sound counterintuitive, but the 95gr Nosler Ballistic Tip was designed for heavy game. It is much tougher than the NBT from 30 years ago.
I used a 130 BT from a 270 on a blacktail twenty something years ago, never tried them again. Have heard they're tougher now, but that one bad experience where it flew apart was enough
Post by: robescc on June 04, 2024, 10:33:04 PM
Post by: Rick on June 05, 2024, 04:12:12 PM
This may sound counterintuitive, but the 95gr Nosler Ballistic Tip was designed for heavy game. It is much tougher than the NBT from 30 years ago.
All the hunting ballistic tips are tougher than when they first came out. They’ve been resigned over the years and many have heavy jackets that make up a large percentage of their weight.
Also true on the 95gr ballistic tip in 24 caliber. One of the head dudes at Nosler had it designed specifically to be used on elk out of a .243 which was his favorite cartridge
Post by: yakimanoob on June 10, 2024, 02:30:56 PM
agree!
Watched my buddy shoot a 340 ish bull in the green river water shed a few years ago, he used his 243, shot it in the shoulder and flipped it over. We never found that bull, he got up and ran. Just don't shoot your bull in the shoulder.
Just don't shoot your bull with a .243.
I wish we could stop this nonsense. As if these kinds of things don't occasionally happen with a 30-30 or any other round for that matter.
I've watched a 300 WSM hit a cow elk broadside at 70 yds and spray a freaking cloud of blood out the opposite side, only to watch her run off as if unharmed. Thankfully we were in open country and were able to track her for several hours until she bedded down and my buddy could stalk in for another shot.
I bet lots of us have stories like this, if we'd just admit it.
Elk are tough, and no ammo is perfect.
Post by: Cougartail on June 10, 2024, 04:36:41 PM
agree!
Watched my buddy shoot a 340 ish bull in the green river water shed a few years ago, he used his 243, shot it in the shoulder and flipped it over. We never found that bull, he got up and ran. Just don't shoot your bull in the shoulder.
Just don't shoot your bull with a .243.
I wish we could stop this nonsense. As if these kinds of things don't occasionally happen with a 30-30 or any other round for that matter.
I've watched a 300 WSM hit a cow elk broadside at 70 yds and spray a freaking cloud of blood out the opposite side, only to watch her run off as if unharmed. Thankfully we were in open country and were able to track her for several hours until she bedded down and my buddy could stalk in for another shot.
I bet lots of us have stories like this, if we'd just admit it.
Elk are tough, and no ammo is perfect.
My 30-30 will kill, cut, and wrap an elk right there on the spot. It's just amazing. :chuckle:
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on June 17, 2024, 08:51:08 PM
Post by: pickardjw on June 17, 2024, 09:02:02 PM
agree!
Watched my buddy shoot a 340 ish bull in the green river water shed a few years ago, he used his 243, shot it in the shoulder and flipped it over. We never found that bull, he got up and ran. Just don't shoot your bull in the shoulder.
Just don't shoot your bull with a .243.
I wish we could stop this nonsense. As if these kinds of things don't occasionally happen with a 30-30 or any other round for that matter.
I've watched a 300 WSM hit a cow elk broadside at 70 yds and spray a freaking cloud of blood out the opposite side, only to watch her run off as if unharmed. Thankfully we were in open country and were able to track her for several hours until she bedded down and my buddy could stalk in for another shot.
I bet lots of us have stories like this, if we'd just admit it.
Elk are tough, and no ammo is perfect.
When it happens with a .30 cal magnum, they're tough animals
When it happens with a smaller caliber, the bullet is too small