Post by: cohoho on June 15, 2009, 06:01:39 PM
Hello Mike,
I've attached a number of documents that may be of help in answering your
questions. Unfortunately, we do not have any reports that directly address
all of what you are asking about. Why don't you review what I've included,
and, if you have additional questions, get back to me. In the mean time
I've attempted to answer some of your specific questions below.
1) What is the belief within the state of Washington on this (oversize
sturgeon) fishery? And the factors that may limit its future?
. We are confident that the white sturgeon population inhabiting the
lower Columbia River (LCR) is large enough to support both a substantial
keeper fishery and a modest fishery targeting oversize fish. The LCR
population is estimated to exceed 800,000 fish, with 130,000 being of keeper
size. The Fraser River population is estimated to be about 50,000 fish.
. Our management is based on sustainable harvest that takes into
account all sources of mortality (sport and commercial harvest, handling
mortality related to catch and release in sport fisheries and in commercial
fisheries, poaching, and other sources). I would point out that this
sustainable harvest rate will likely have to be reduced in the near future
to compensate for growing losses due to predation by sea lions.
. The intent of our management approach is to escape more fish from
the legal-size population into the broodstock population than are lost from
the broodstock population due to mortality from the various sources.
. The following are links to documents that describe our sturgeon
management approach: LCR Sturgeon Management Implications
(http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/whtsturg.htm ), December 9, 2008 Joint State Staff
Report (http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/crc/crcindex.htm ).
. We have documented some mortality to broodstock (oversize). After
some initial reports of dead sturgeon washing ashore downstream of the area
where anglers were first starting to target oversize fish in the early
1990s, we became concerned enough to implement a systematic survey of the
Columbia River downstream of the fishery for sturgeon carcasses. Results of
the surveys are provided in the attached "carcass and hook summary". We
suspect that a portion of these fish likely died from being handled in the
sport fishery due to the frequency of ingested hooks found in the carcasses.
As you have hypothesized, these large fish are handled multiple times during
their lifetime, even multiple times in a given year. This is born out in
the carcasses, where we often find multiple hook setups in a fish. Other
indications of hooking-caused mortality include punctured arteries in the
gill area. These impacts would likely be far less if anglers switched from
using J-hooks to using circle hooks.
. We do not know for certain how significant this may be to the
population, partly because we do not know what proportion of broodstock are
lost each year - the unknowns being: 1) the total number of broodstock lost
(we know that only a portion likely wash ashore were we find them) and 2)
the total number of broodstock in the population.
. Because of these concerns, we have implemented a precautionary
approach to managing fisheries that includes protecting broodstock through
instituting spawning sanctuaries - closing certain areas of the river where
sturgeon congregate to spawn during the spawning timeframe.
. This has not eliminated access to oversize sturgeon, only the
portion that we are most concerned about. Anglers still fish for oversize
sturgeon just downstream of the spawning sanctuaries. We have worked with
some of the guides to develop "Best Practices" for fishing for oversize (see
attachment).
2) Is the (B.C.) view different from Washington's as to the
survivability of oversize compared to the taking of keepers for personal
use?
. We have estimated annual survival for legal-size fish but not for
oversize sturgeon, so I cannot compare survival rates between the two
categories. We do believe that an individual broodstock-size fish is much
more valuable to population productivity that a legal or sub-legal size
fish, since the broodstock population is comprised of the very small
proportion of juveniles that ever make it to adulthood.
. I will point out again that we believe that harvest of "keeper"
size fish is supportable as long as it is kept to sustainable levels.
3) Are there actual scientific tests done in Washington that confirm
what is stated (on some web sites) or is it perception?
. I touched on this a bit in the fourth bullet under number 1.
. We have assisted with research on the buildup of stress hormones
in sturgeon handled in the oversize fishery (see the attached Webb report).
The work indicates that the longer it takes to land an oversize sturgeon,
the greater the stress on the fish. One concern we have is that too much
stress at the wrong time may lead to a portion or possible all of a fishes
eggs being reabsorbed. There is nothing definitive on this for white
sturgeon, but it has been documented for some other fish species.
. The best summary of information on the oversize white sturgeon
fishery is contained in the attached "white paper".
4) Nothing is mentioned about contributing factors like grabbing the
gill plates and hoisting them in the boat as shown in several pictures on
various sites. Does the WDF&G have a reward program for people reporting
illegal pulling fish out of the water?
. We rely on our enforcement officers to enforce the rule.
5) Are there thoughts of the fishery becoming C & R?
. The history of our interaction with anglers throughout the
Columbia River indicates strong support from anglers towards maintaining and
enhancing harvest opportunity for white sturgeon. We are able to provide
harvest fisheries in tandem with catch and release opportunity for
sublegal-size, legal-size, and oversize white sturgeon.
6) Is there any way a Joe citizen can be a part of these surveys?
. The stock assessment approach employed on the lower Fraser River
involving the provincial government, paid consultants associated with the
Fraser River Sturgeon Conservation Society, and volunteers has been quite
successful. The limited resources that we currently direct towards managing
the lower Columbia River white sturgeon population are spread between
multiple activities, including sampling fisheries (this takes up most of our
resources), estimating harvest, modeling fishing season scenarios, in-season
fishery management, and stock assessment work including abundance estimation
and tracking other population parameters. Our approach relies on utilizing
staff time from various non-sturgeon programs to help accomplish this. We
have tried to incorporate some public participation with the stock
assessment program, but found that we did not have the resources necessary
to properly oversee such a program to ensure that accurate data was being
collected.
Post by: singleshot12 on June 15, 2009, 06:43:15 PM
Circle hooks or atleast a hook size of 5/0 or bigger,and non-stainless hooks,and maybe even line and rod restrictions?
Post by: tmike on June 15, 2009, 06:49:47 PM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on June 15, 2009, 07:18:05 PM
Post by: fishcrazy on June 15, 2009, 07:42:01 PM
As for restrictions on the oversize. I think we need to get people to get better gear. I run a heavy rod and good reels (Daiwa SLD 30 2 speed) and 80# power pro. I actually think 80 is more than enough. I don't know anybody that can brake it. I have to tie it to the boat to get it to brake. The biggest thing with the big gators is handling. Like any other fish if they are handled wrong then they won't make it. It makes me sick to see guys useing little Pen reels for the big one. they just make the fight to long and won't hold them like a good reel does. IMO
One of the funnest things to fish for is SEA MONSTERS. But they need to be treated right!! I normally fish them every weekend mid May - early July and average 6-8 per day. All fish are hooked with big hooks (12/0 Gammi) and faught with good gear and left in the water and quickly let go.
I think nets in the Columbia do more harm than hook and line fisherman. Start with getting rid of nets. Join CCA
Kris
Post by: cohoho on June 15, 2009, 08:08:08 PM
Circle hooks are widely utilized for Halibut and other bottom fish in Alaska and here with incredible success over J hook, they would work here too without a doubt. The hooks don't slide to the corner of the mouth??? Hoyt have you ever tried Circle hooks? Seems like your on the water more than most, rig up a rod and give it a go here this week. I know all of my bigger set-ups are going to them this week... If any hook would slide it would be a J-Hook.... I saw the other day in an article from around Wanachee of a couple guides are ONLY using Cricle hooks, first off they prevent losing fish to weight pulling out line during slack line, greater hook ups percentages. I'm reading a couple of guys have problems with hooking up consistently but going to circle greatly improved their success..
Well off to more reading...
Does anyone have the information if the fish side of the WDFG responds the same way the wildlife side does in regards to violators?
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on June 15, 2009, 08:37:46 PM
Post by: fishcrazy on June 15, 2009, 08:38:37 PM
As for allot of the hook mortality on the big fish. You gotta think out of the box. Who says these fish are biten hooks that are being used for sturg. I can see the funny look on everybodys face now.
Imagine a bank full of fisher people all casting and drifting various baits. It doesn't matter what they are fishing for. No as we all know some of those people are snagging up on a stick or rock and brakeing off. what do you think happens to all that gear? it stays and makes a bigger mess and begins to snow ball. Now imagine big old sturg. He smells all this bait and comes up to check on it. sucks up some hooks. some are small and go down deep. He's hooked now and after a fight breaks allot of the gear off but that stuff is going to kill him soon. I heard a story from a Bio about this very situation and they say that nothing can be done. It's not the sturgeon fisher people who are killing them.
I think more importantly we need to use big hooks. IMO 10/0 is allmost to small. I run 12/0 gami hooks and have not had one take them deep yet. allways in the sucker. Allso you can't let them take the bait to long.
Kris
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on June 15, 2009, 08:39:57 PM
Thanks for the info COHO, most of my questions are answered from a sturgeon BIO on IFISH, she goes by STGRule and is a good one. If you want facts from a sturgeon bio look her up.
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on June 15, 2009, 08:47:38 PM
Post by: tmike on June 15, 2009, 08:48:00 PM
Post by: fishcrazy on June 15, 2009, 09:00:38 PM
I agree 100% on the gear. I buy my hooks on ebay from a guy in Idaho. I can't remeber what I pay but it's nothin close to that!!!!!
As a guide you should contact Gami and see what they ca ndo for you.
Kris
Post by: singleshot12 on June 15, 2009, 09:20:55 PM
I agree. It would be good to see a catch and release fishery on sturg. But We are up against the mentallity of kill to have a good time. As long as people think they have to kill them to have had a fun day on the water we won't see a C&R only fishery and they will continue to decline.Quote
I don't think that most fishermen that harvest their annual 5 keeper size sturgeon have the "kill mentality" to have a good time?.
I think most just plain enjoy just eating them. If everyone just caught their five fish and then just left them alone the rest of the year would make a lot more sense for the sturgeon than being hooked and released all year long IMO.
As far as circle hooks, they are designed to set themselves in the mouth area to lesson the chance of being ingested.
Post by: cohoho on June 15, 2009, 09:21:58 PM
Post by: huntnphool on June 16, 2009, 06:02:10 PM
Post by: JoeVon on June 17, 2009, 06:46:05 AM
Post by: Ray on June 17, 2009, 07:02:31 AM
Anyone recognize these two skunks?
Total pros. 8)
Post by: huntnphool on June 17, 2009, 07:32:08 PM
Post by: bankwalker on June 17, 2009, 07:44:39 PM
I have not ever used them only seen them and from my understanding the design is utililzed by setting in the corner of a fish' mouth? many people I have talked with seem to think a circle hook wont work well......... you seem to think they will, ill give one a try soon, I have trips all this week...
i have used them before quite a few years back. we were using 5/0's for keeper size fish and missed at least 80% of the fish. switched back to normal hooks and the hookup rate trippled. never used circle hooks again after that.
Post by: cohoho on June 17, 2009, 09:01:42 PM
Man, I can't believe your dogging my cool gloves...... :chuckle: I went to a pale light blue color cheaper glove and they keep ripping all the time, going back to my purple Nitrex favorites... Ok, so I'm color blind what do I know........... :yike:
Post by: cohoho on June 18, 2009, 03:56:31 PM
Lower Columbia Oversize Sport Sturgeon Fishery
A summary of the workshop meeting concerning gear regulations and best fish handling practices for the oversize sport sturgeon fishery
A public workshop was held on December 29, 2003 at the ODFW's NW Region office in Clackamas, Oregon. The purpose of the workshop was to review the oversize sport sturgeon fishery and develop alternative gear regulations and best fishing practices that would reduce injury and mortality to oversize white sturgeon handled in this fishery. A total of 11 members of the public attended the meeting, of which nine were professional guides that participate in the current fishery and three represented sport fishing industry organizations (i.e. NSIA and Pure Fishing). Technical and policy staff from the ODFW and the WDFW were also present.
Discussion at the workshop focused primarily on the status of the broodstock populations, fishery impacts, appropriate gear for use in the oversize sport sturgeon fishery, best fishing practices, and angler education. Fishery recommendations developed by the group were divided into two general categories: 1) gear regulations and 2) angler education. Results of the discussion are summarized below.
Gear Regulations:
The group discussed gear that is currently used by professional guides participating in the oversize sport sturgeon fishery. In general there was consensus among the public participants that the following gear regulations would be appropriate for use in an oversize sport sturgeon fishery. The group felt that these regulations should apply to all sturgeon anglers in the area above Skamania Island during the timeframe that the oversize sturgeon boat fishery sanctuary is in effect. Additionally, the group expressed concern over the handle of oversize sturgeon in the bank fishery that occurs when and where the oversize sturgeon boat fishery sanctuary is in effect.
Line Type: No monofilament line allowed
Mainline size > 80 pound test
Leader size > 95 pound test
Hooks: Restrict to one hook only
Restrict to bronze hooks only
Based on the assumption that ingested bronze hooks will dissolve more quickly than plated or stainless steel hooks
Hook size > 9/0
Based on the assumption that larger hooks were less likely to be deeply ingested
Rod: Rating > 40 pound
Other gear topics were also discussed but were not part of the groups recommended regulation package. The group did not support the use of circle hooks or the elimination of whole shad as bait in this fishery. Guides who experimented with circle hooks report poor hooking rates in comparison to the "J" style hooks currently used in the fishery. Leader length was also discussed but the group could not come to consensus on what the appropriate leader length should be.
Education:
The group discussed methods of educating the general public on best fishing practices for sturgeon fisheries in the lower Columbia River, especially the oversize fishery. Many of the participants at this workshop put on seminars concerning the oversize sport sturgeon fishery and felt that these seminars should focus on protection of oversize sturgeon through best fishing practices. In general the participants in this workshop agreed that the topics listed below should be included in an education program for the general public. Additionally, it was proposed that the Oregon and Washington Departments of Fish and Wildlife should work with fishing industry organizations, such as NSIA, to develop brochures that describe best fishing practices for sturgeon sport fisheries, especially the oversize fishery. Education efforts should focus primarily on the area where the oversize fishery occurs. Educational information should also be included in ODFW and WDFW regulation pamphlets and other types of media (i.e. radio and television) when feasible.
• Encourage proper fish handling techniques to maximize survival of released fish. Information should focus on oversize fish but should also include legals and sublegals handled to promote maximum survival of all fish handled in sport sturgeon fisheries.
• Proper boat handling procedures to reduce stress on fish by landing fish quicker. Use of propeller guards should be emphasized to avoid striking a fish with an operating boat motor.
• Proper techniques for reviving stressed fish prior to release after a strenuous fight. Fish should be strong enough to swim away vigorously.
• Promote removal of all hooks possible. Proper hook removal techniques should be identified and emphasized.
• Anglers participating in the oversize sport sturgeon fishery should be encouraged to end their fishing trip when each person has had a chance to participate in landing one oversize white sturgeon. Landing of several oversize sturgeon per passenger should be discouraged.
The ODFW and the WDFW joint staff will take these recommendations under advisement and will present fishery recommendations at future Commission and Joint State regulation hearings.
Post by: huntnphool on June 18, 2009, 06:16:06 PM
Post by: singleshot12 on June 19, 2009, 05:58:13 AM
Maybe this can be achieved for once without another great fishery having to be shut down.
Post by: skipper on June 19, 2009, 06:31:55 AM
All i use for Sturgeon are circle hooks they work way better then normal J hooks if you use them right the fish will always hook itself in the corner of the mouth and not come unbuttoned. Most people that miss the fish with a circle hook do it because they try to set the hook like normal and not just allow the hook to work how it's supposed to. I'll never go back to a normal hook fishing for Sturgeon :twocents:I have not ever used them only seen them and from my understanding the design is utililzed by setting in the corner of a fish' mouth? many people I have talked with seem to think a circle hook wont work well......... you seem to think they will, ill give one a try soon, I have trips all this week...
i have used them before quite a few years back. we were using 5/0's for keeper size fish and missed at least 80% of the fish. switched back to normal hooks and the hookup rate trippled. never used circle hooks again after that.
Post by: D_morg on June 19, 2009, 07:00:19 AM
Post by: cohoho on June 19, 2009, 11:43:47 AM
Dmorg- I am no expert for sure but what I use seems to work out pretty good. I use Okuma reels 30 for keepers and 55 for OS, but might go to Penn 321 for the light stuff next year. I got the lighter reels on either 8 1/2 foot Ugly sticks, Heavy salmon or Ugly stick light heavy and a Whooping stick or two in Med-heavy. OS stuff is on Heavy Yellow Ugly Sticks.
On my Keepers rod I use 65lb braided on my OS stuff I use 100lb bradied. I take a red bead slide it on the line then a slider rig, I like the brass ones, expensive but they work better IMO, then another bead. I tie off to a 200 lbs test swivel. I take a 24" -30" leader and tie directly to the swivel then at the other end tie a snell hook in either 5/0 to 11/0 hook. I'm going to circle hooks here soon, so I got to see what size works best for me, bought some 13/0 for OS so we'll see. Attached to the brass slider is sinker either ball or triangle of weight depending upon the current of the water from 12 ounces to 32 ounces at the dam. This is the basic rig that I know...
Post by: huntnphool on June 19, 2009, 11:48:55 AM
Post by: rasbo on June 19, 2009, 11:51:18 AM
Post by: cohoho on June 19, 2009, 12:05:18 PM
Wow Coho, I use 25# mainline and 50# dacron leader on my rods, have never had an issue but then I don't go after the OS either though.
What is so Wow? I have gotten almost all of the OS I have caught on my salmon rods..... I think that's why I like Sturgeon fishing, you never know what your getting at the other end of the line...
Don't know anything about that reel... :dunno:
Post by: huntnphool on June 19, 2009, 12:14:36 PM
Quote
What is so Wow?
65# mainline?
Post by: skipper on June 19, 2009, 12:51:31 PM
Skipper, That is the same information I have heard from several guys that use them. I'll give it a go and thanks for the post..
Once you figure it out you'll love them it takes a while to not grab the pole when they start nibbling you have to wait until the pole is buried then its fish on and it's not coming off good luck
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on June 19, 2009, 07:53:15 PM
Post by: D_morg on June 20, 2009, 08:29:06 AM
Post by: huntnphool on July 08, 2009, 03:44:07 PM
Sturgeon fishery extended
in Columbia River estuary
OLYMPIA – Anglers will get at least six more days to catch white sturgeon in the Columbia River estuary, beginning July 10.
Fishery managers from Washington and Oregon announced the joint decision July 7 after assessing catch data for the fishery.
By the states’ action, anglers will be allowed to catch and retain legal-size white sturgeon Friday through Sunday from July 10-12 and July 17-19 between the mouth of the Columbia and the Wauna powerlines near Cathlamet.
Those additional fishing days are designed to give anglers an opportunity to catch 4,100 sturgeon still available for harvest by the recreational fishery when the regularly scheduled season ended July 5, said Brad James, a fish biologist for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW). The catch guideline for that season was 15,529 fish.
“The sturgeon catch was a little below average for the season,” James said. “That left room for some extra fishing days.”
As during the regular season, the daily catch limit is one white sturgeon, with a fork-length measurement of 41 inches to 54 inches. All green sturgeon must be released. Fishery managers will review the catch data after July 19 to determine if additional fishing opportunity is available under the catch guidelines.
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 08, 2009, 06:22:33 PM
Post by: huntnphool on July 22, 2009, 04:19:27 PM
Sturgeon fishery extended again
in Columbia River estuary
OLYMPIA - The sturgeon fishery in the Columbia River estuary has been extended for another three days, beginning Friday (July 24).
Fishery managers from Washington and Oregon announced the joint decision after assessing catch data through July 19.
By their action, the two states will allow anglers to catch and retain legal-size white sturgeon Friday through Sunday (July 24-26) between the mouth of the Columbia and the Wauna powerlines near Cathlamet.
Those additional fishing days are designed to give anglers an opportunity to catch up to 2,400 sturgeon still available for harvest after a six-day opening earlier this month, said Brad James, a fish biologist for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW).
"Fishing was generally good, but we didn't get the turnout we expected because a lot of anglers decided to fish for salmon off the coast," James said. "That left room for some extra fishing days."
This year's catch guideline for the estuary fishery is 15,529 fish. James said this week's three-day opening is not expected to cause the catch to exceed that guideline.
The daily catch limit is one white sturgeon, with a fork-length measurement of 41 inches to 54 inches. All green sturgeon must be released.
Post by: cohoho on July 22, 2009, 04:49:30 PM