Post by: lhrbull on June 16, 2024, 07:00:02 AM
Post by: HillHound on June 16, 2024, 07:32:11 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on June 16, 2024, 08:03:58 AM
Your points are 'used' each year you apply. They are not personal property and they do not entitle you to anything...they gave you extra chances to draw, so in effect you got your use out of them.
Post by: High Climber on June 16, 2024, 08:28:22 AM
Points schemes were a bad idea. Anything that allows for sale or transfer of points is a bad idea on steroids.That’s a good way to put it :yeah:
Your points are 'used' each year you apply. They are not personal property and they do not entitle you to anything...they gave you extra chances to draw, so in effect you got your use out of them.
Post by: lhrbull on June 17, 2024, 08:19:44 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on June 17, 2024, 08:36:19 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on June 17, 2024, 08:37:55 AM
They must have value or you wouldn't accumulate them for future advantage in the draw so why couldn't you pass them on to a direct descendentThe short answer: its not legal/permissible to transfer points. That's why you can't pass them to a descendent (or anyone else).
Post by: addicted1 on June 17, 2024, 08:40:58 AM
Post by: HikerHunter on June 17, 2024, 08:43:58 AM
They must have value or you wouldn't accumulate them for future advantage in the draw so why couldn't you pass them on to a direct descendent
I think of them as a personalized coupon (do they still have them?). Only you can use them in the draw for a specific item/hunt, otherwise the cash value is 1/100th of 1 cent.
Post by: HikerHunter on June 17, 2024, 08:44:59 AM
Post by: Farmer72 on June 17, 2024, 08:53:34 AM
They must have value or you wouldn't accumulate them for future advantage in the draw so why couldn't you pass them on to a direct descendent
I think of them as a personalized coupon (do they still have them?). Only you can use them in the draw for a specific item/hunt, otherwise the cash value is 1/100th of 1 cent.
So I should be able to collect 100 pts and be able to trade them in for the penny.
I agree it is a bad idea to make them inheritable/transferable. Sucks to just let them go but it is what it is. Besides I don't want hear someone complaining they have 60 points and someone with 3 points got drawn. Be nice if people just forgot about the points and realize it is just a random draw and either you are lucky that year or you are not.
Just my opinion.
Post by: bearpaw on June 17, 2024, 08:58:34 AM
Post by: LDennis24 on June 17, 2024, 09:00:30 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on June 17, 2024, 09:03:16 AM
If you ask me they should have a pool of tags that require 20 point's or more to put in to. Why shouldn't the guys who have waited and put in for that long get a special drawing?
Those are preference not bonus points
Post by: bearpaw on June 17, 2024, 09:07:48 AM
If you ask me they should have a pool of tags that require 20 point's or more to put in to. Why shouldn't the guys who have waited and put in for that long get a special drawing?
If point systems were any good there wouldn't be all sorts of people wanting to try various scenarios, the best thing would be if points systems were scrapped, but that isn't going to happen either because too many people think they will probably draw soon because of all their points they have accumulated.
The reality is there are loads of hunters sitting on 20+ points!
Post by: idahohuntr on June 17, 2024, 09:10:02 AM
If you ask me they should have a pool of tags that require 20 point's or more to put in to. Why shouldn't the guys who have waited and put in for that long get a special drawing?Why? Because demand far exceeds supply and if we are putting together criteria to hand out rare tags I don't think spending 5 seconds hitting submit and paying $10 for several consecutive years entitles you to anything. If we want to identify groups/criteria that should get priority, we'll run out of tags before we get through the list of much more deserving individuals (e.g., gold star family members, disabled vets, etc.).
Post by: idahohuntr on June 17, 2024, 09:12:10 AM
:yeah:If you ask me they should have a pool of tags that require 20 point's or more to put in to. Why shouldn't the guys who have waited and put in for that long get a special drawing?
If point systems were any good there wouldn't be all sorts of people wanting to try various scenarios, the best thing would be if points systems were scrapped, but that isn't going to happen either because too many people think they will probably draw soon because of all their points they have accumulated.
The reality is there are loads of hunters sitting on 20+ points!
@huntnphool had about the only realistic idea I've heard for how to wean a state off points...but even that would be a tough sell.
Post by: LDennis24 on June 17, 2024, 09:16:32 AM
If you ask me they should have a pool of tags that require 20 point's or more to put in to. Why shouldn't the guys who have waited and put in for that long get a special drawing?Why? Because demand far exceeds supply and if we are putting together criteria to hand out rare tags I don't think spending 5 seconds hitting submit and paying $10 for several consecutive years entitles you to anything. If we want to identify groups/criteria that should get priority, we'll run out of tags before we get through the list of much more deserving individuals (e.g., gold star family members, disabled vets, etc.).
I'm talking about preference points only, not people who have more money to spend than others. They can have their own pool too. If you put only the people who have 20yrs worth of points into their own pool their chances increase drastically. :dunno:
Post by: idahohuntr on June 17, 2024, 09:22:45 AM
I understand what you are saying...and I'm saying the people with 20+ points don't deserve their own special/entitled portion of the state's wildlife. They already benefit from the advantage of higher odds relative to lower point holders.If you ask me they should have a pool of tags that require 20 point's or more to put in to. Why shouldn't the guys who have waited and put in for that long get a special drawing?Why? Because demand far exceeds supply and if we are putting together criteria to hand out rare tags I don't think spending 5 seconds hitting submit and paying $10 for several consecutive years entitles you to anything. If we want to identify groups/criteria that should get priority, we'll run out of tags before we get through the list of much more deserving individuals (e.g., gold star family members, disabled vets, etc.).
I'm talking about preference points only, not people who have more money to spend than others. They can have their own pool too. If you put only the people who have 20yrs worth of points into their own pool their chances increase drastically. :dunno:
Post by: addicted1 on June 17, 2024, 10:51:47 AM
Post by: HikerHunter on June 17, 2024, 11:31:08 AM
They should just blow it up, switch to Idaho model but only for in state folks. If people only knew their actual odds of drawing even with 20+, the facts that they release average points to draw anything is joke too. They need to stop showing that, average points and actual chance are way off.
Does anyone know how far back they take the "average points"? I'm assuming its at least a few years so that someone drawing with 1 point or 25 points for a category that only has one tag doesn't skew that value.
Post by: bobcat on June 17, 2024, 12:00:24 PM
They should just blow it up, switch to Idaho model but only for in state folks. If people only knew their actual odds of drawing even with 20+, the facts that they release average points to draw anything is joke too. They need to stop showing that, average points and actual chance are way off.
Does anyone know how far back they take the "average points"? I'm assuming its at least a few years so that someone drawing with 1 point or 25 points for a category that only has one tag doesn't skew that value.
It's the average points of the previous year, of the people who drew. It means NOTHING, especially for those hunts with very few permits. Think of hunts that have only 1 permit, and it happens to be drawn by someone with 1 point. So the average to draw that hunt is 1 point. 🙄
Post by: trophyhunt on June 17, 2024, 12:09:39 PM
Post by: chukar58 on June 17, 2024, 02:04:05 PM
Post by: HikerHunter on June 17, 2024, 02:16:57 PM
They should just blow it up, switch to Idaho model but only for in state folks. If people only knew their actual odds of drawing even with 20+, the facts that they release average points to draw anything is joke too. They need to stop showing that, average points and actual chance are way off.
Does anyone know how far back they take the "average points"? I'm assuming its at least a few years so that someone drawing with 1 point or 25 points for a category that only has one tag doesn't skew that value.
It's the average points of the previous year, of the people who drew. It means NOTHING, especially for those hunts with very few permits. Think of hunts that have only 1 permit, and it happens to be drawn by someone with 1 point. So the average to draw that hunt is 1 point. 🙄
Take no offense, but I didn't believe you, so I just checked with a buddy that drew a single tag a few years back and sure enough the next year was his number of points. In fact, if you look at the hunts with a single or just a couple permits, the average points sometimes swings wildly each year.
All that said, I agree with Bobcat, the average points is useless. Actually its misleading at its best!
Post by: Bob33 on June 17, 2024, 02:31:50 PM
One might even think it's intentional, to sell more applications.They should just blow it up, switch to Idaho model but only for in state folks. If people only knew their actual odds of drawing even with 20+, the facts that they release average points to draw anything is joke too. They need to stop showing that, average points and actual chance are way off.
Does anyone know how far back they take the "average points"? I'm assuming its at least a few years so that someone drawing with 1 point or 25 points for a category that only has one tag doesn't skew that value.
It's the average points of the previous year, of the people who drew. It means NOTHING, especially for those hunts with very few permits. Think of hunts that have only 1 permit, and it happens to be drawn by someone with 1 point. So the average to draw that hunt is 1 point. 🙄
Take no offense, but I didn't believe you, so I just checked with a buddy that drew a single tag a few years back and sure enough the next year was his number of points. In fact, if you look at the hunts with a single or just a couple permits, the average points sometimes swings wildly each year.
All that said, I agree with Bobcat, the average points is useless. Actually its misleading at its best!
Post by: huntnphool on June 17, 2024, 03:00:21 PM
:yeah:If you ask me they should have a pool of tags that require 20 point's or more to put in to. Why shouldn't the guys who have waited and put in for that long get a special drawing?
If point systems were any good there wouldn't be all sorts of people wanting to try various scenarios, the best thing would be if points systems were scrapped, but that isn't going to happen either because too many people think they will probably draw soon because of all their points they have accumulated.
The reality is there are loads of hunters sitting on 20+ points!
@huntnphool had about the only realistic idea I've heard for how to wean a state off points...but even that would be a tough sell.
Post by: bobcat on June 17, 2024, 03:04:35 PM
Post by: Caseknife on June 17, 2024, 05:20:28 PM