Post by: The Big Game Hunter on August 25, 2024, 11:53:04 AM
I would't say I've hunted extensively with the Hornady ELD-X, but I've taken a few animals with that bullet from several different cartridges at ranges from 30 to 200 yards and the results were uniformly good: quick kills, short (or non-existent) tracking jobs, lots of damage to the vitals of the animal, and a freely bleeding exit wound.
Even so, I've still heard plenty of stories from other hunters about those bullets "blowing" up on impact. Some of the more colorful negative descriptions of the bullet have even compared the ELD-X directly to varmint bullets in their terminal performance.
On the other hand, other hunters regard the ELD-X as one of the best hunting projectiles ever invented and swear they're the best thing since sliced bread for hunting deer, antelope, and even elk or moose!
Who is right?
You're going to hate my answer but I just have to call it as I see it:
It depends.
The ELD-X undoubtedly has some strengths that make them an outstanding choice for hunting certain types of big game under certain conditions, but it's also true they are a poor choice for hunting under other conditions.
To help illustrate this point, I conducted a test to see how the 7mm Remington Magnum shooting Hornady Precision Hunter ammunition loaded with the 162gr ELD-X bullet performs in ballistic gel.
You can see exactly what I mean about how that's a great projectile for some uses and a less than ideal choice for others in this video:
Post by: addicted1 on August 25, 2024, 12:50:17 PM
Post by: JakeLand on August 25, 2024, 01:10:20 PM
It’s all I shoot out of my .270 WSM
Post by: The scout on August 25, 2024, 02:42:25 PM
Post by: pickardjw on August 25, 2024, 03:25:38 PM
The 143 ELD-X has been consistent for me. Deer in my profile pic got two of them at 325, both exited. First was a CNS shot so no distance travelled.
Black bear my buddy shot with my gun got two as well at 350, both exited. First pic is one exit, about golf ball size. First shot was hard quartering away and went through the femur/hip joint (pulled the shot), second through lungs. Bear went about 100 yards total, 50 after the second shot.
Another buddy with my gun shot a buck in MT at 100, again with two impacts. Four of us were butchering so not sure where one hit or if if exited, but one certainly did. Again, about golf ball size. Less than 50 yards travelled.
I wouldn't hesitate to use it on any game in NA.
Post by: greenhead_killer on August 25, 2024, 04:47:14 PM
I am also one of the gripers in that they do so much internal damage. On one hand, that’s a great thing ends in a dead critter. On the other hand, it’s a mess! I never get exit holes but do find fragments everywhere inside when gutting/processing the meat. I even cracked a tooth this year eating a piece of backstrap that had a piece of copper jacket in it.
I’ve shot deer, bear, elk, moose, sheep with the eld-x out of my 7mm and will probably continue to do so. I’ll deal with the mess.
Post by: The Big Game Hunter on August 25, 2024, 04:59:09 PM
I’m torn on them. I’ve shot animals at 400 yards down to 40 and all result in the same thing. A dead animal with minimal tracking, if any.You're using these 162gr ELD-X bullets I used in the gel test on the hunts you've referred to?
I am also one of the gripers in that they do so much internal damage. On one hand, that’s a great thing ends in a dead critter. On the other hand, it’s a mess! I never get exit holes but do find fragments everywhere inside when gutting/processing the meat. I even cracked a tooth this year eating a piece of backstrap that had a piece of copper jacket in it.
I’ve shot deer, bear, elk, moose, sheep with the eld-x out of my 7mm and will probably continue to do so. I’ll deal with the mess.
Do I understand correctly that you've never had an ELD-X bullet exit?
Post by: Taco280AI on August 25, 2024, 05:46:04 PM
Post by: follow maggie on August 25, 2024, 06:23:56 PM
I gave them a good shot, killed probably 6 deer and 3 elk. They kill stuff, nothing went more than 20 yds. Inside of 300yds=gross entrance hole and no exit. Outside of that they perform really well. ALL the energy goes into that animal, the lungs get vaporized because of it. Never had bullets do as much internal damage.I was shooting them out of my 300 rum so they just had a little too much speed close. I think where they really work well is past 500 where a bonded bullet really isn’t going to carry enough speed to expand. All that said I don’t use them anymore.
How do you think they’d perform under 300 yards out of a .30-06?
Post by: 2MANY on August 25, 2024, 07:14:15 PM
It held a group of 5 about the size of a tennis ball.
The steel plate looked like I threw grapes at it.
I'm gonna grow my hair so I can rock a man bun.
Post by: jrebel on August 25, 2024, 07:16:57 PM
I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets. I’ve never been let down by either.
The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage. I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price. They are half the price of other….better….bullets.
Post by: pickardjw on August 25, 2024, 07:33:02 PM
I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X. Performance was very inconsistent. I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear. Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again. Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill. That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.
I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets. I’ve never been let down by either.
The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage. I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price. They are half the price of other….better….bullets.
Do you have photos or video of the bullet that "exploded" on a bear shoulder?
Post by: jrebel on August 25, 2024, 07:39:19 PM
I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X. Performance was very inconsistent. I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear. Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again. Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill. That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.
I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets. I’ve never been let down by either.
The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage. I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price. They are half the price of other….better….bullets.
Do you have photos or video of the bullet that "exploded" on a bear shoulder?
I have pics of the bear a year later still alive. Huge bald spot on the high shoulder. I’ll see if I can find the picture. I didn’t take a picture of the hair / hide I found on point of impact, but it was the size of a softball.
Post by: greenhead_killer on August 25, 2024, 07:39:32 PM
yep, 162 gr eldx. I’ve had pieces exit, but never the whole thing. They explode on contact. I’ve made neck shots, shoulder shots etc. never have figured out why no exit hole except maybe it drops all the energy into the animal. 🤷🏻♂️I’m torn on them. I’ve shot animals at 400 yards down to 40 and all result in the same thing. A dead animal with minimal tracking, if any.You're using these 162gr ELD-X bullets I used in the gel test on the hunts you've referred to?
I am also one of the gripers in that they do so much internal damage. On one hand, that’s a great thing ends in a dead critter. On the other hand, it’s a mess! I never get exit holes but do find fragments everywhere inside when gutting/processing the meat. I even cracked a tooth this year eating a piece of backstrap that had a piece of copper jacket in it.
I’ve shot deer, bear, elk, moose, sheep with the eld-x out of my 7mm and will probably continue to do so. I’ll deal with the mess.
Do I understand correctly that you've never had an ELD-X bullet exit?
Post by: Taco280AI on August 25, 2024, 07:40:35 PM
I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X. Performance was very inconsistent. I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear. Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again. Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill. That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.
I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets. I’ve never been let down by either.
The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage. I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price. They are half the price of other….better….bullets.
How do you like the Hammers? Accuracy and performance? I've read they're designed to shed their petals. Ever recover one? Retained weight? I have a box of 153s (IIRC) for the AI, but haven't done anything with them yet. Hard to move away from the LRX with the accuracy and performance they give.
And not an ELDX/M or Berger, but used a 130 ballistic tip from a 270 on a quartering away blacktail that left a huge hole in the side, but was untouched on the off side. Never again, I like my bullets to expand, retain weight and keep going. Not fly apart.
Post by: jrebel on August 25, 2024, 07:54:14 PM
I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X. Performance was very inconsistent. I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear. Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again. Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill. That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.
I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets. I’ve never been let down by either.
The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage. I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price. They are half the price of other….better….bullets.
How do you like the Hammers? Accuracy and performance? I've read they're designed to shed their petals. Ever recover one? Retained weight? I have a box of 153s (IIRC) for the AI, but haven't done anything with them yet. Hard to move away from the LRX with the accuracy and performance they give.
We have killed multiple deer and bear with various calibers and weights. They have all performed flawlessly and recoveries have been very easy and quick. I have yet to find a shank in any animal and have had complete pass throughs on all animals. Most of the pedals pass through as well. The entry and exit wounds really tell the story with hammers. I have multiple pics of the aftermath on deer and bear to keep track of performance and to share on the Hammer forum. Last year I loaded their new HHT line in a 300 wsm and have had the same great experience. When they shed their pedals, they shank is suppose to square off instead of rounding off. This allows for the bullet to perform like a larger caliber dangerous game solid and create massive cavitation. My son shoot a 500 ish lb black bear in Alberta at 330 ish yards with a 260 grain HH out of a 338 lapua. Hard quartering to shot and the bullet entered in the neck (just in front of the shoulder) and exited behind the last rib of the offside. We figured 3-4 feet of travel and it was a complete pass through. Bear dropped in it's tracks.
As for ease of loading....you won't find an easier bullet to load in my opinion!! Accuracy is second to none. I have a 6.5 creed (Savage Stealth) that shot 1 MOA with 140 grain accubonds. When I switched to the 124 HH it consistently prints 1/2 MOA or better. I have a 7 shot group that is sub .3 MOA. I have only found one of their bullets..... .264 80 grain HHT that I can't get to group sub MOA, though I think a faster powder will fix that. There is a learning curve to loading hammers, though if you shoot the LRX you probably have figure out mono's.
Post by: pickardjw on August 25, 2024, 08:12:28 PM
I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X. Performance was very inconsistent. I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear. Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again. Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill. That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.
I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets. I’ve never been let down by either.
The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage. I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price. They are half the price of other….better….bullets.
Do you have photos or video of the bullet that "exploded" on a bear shoulder?
I have pics of the bear a year later still alive. Huge bald spot on the high shoulder. I’ll see if I can find the picture. I didn’t take a picture of the hair / hide I found on point of impact, but it was the size of a softball.
A well documented miracle of terminal ballistics would be neat to see. Otherwise, I don't believe for a second that a 212gr cup and core bullet at 2000+ fps failed to penetrate 4" of meat and bone.
Post by: The scout on August 25, 2024, 08:48:32 PM
I gave them a good shot, killed probably 6 deer and 3 elk. They kill stuff, nothing went more than 20 yds. Inside of 300yds=gross entrance hole and no exit. Outside of that they perform really well. ALL the energy goes into that animal, the lungs get vaporized because of it. Never had bullets do as much internal damage.I was shooting them out of my 300 rum so they just had a little too much speed close. I think where they really work well is past 500 where a bonded bullet really isn’t going to carry enough speed to expand. All that said I don’t use them anymore.
How do you think they’d perform under 300 yards out of a .30-06?
Guarantee dead animal, might be messy. I’ll take a dead animal over perfect exit hole any time.
Post by: jrebel on August 25, 2024, 09:47:16 PM
I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X. Performance was very inconsistent. I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear. Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again. Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill. That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.
I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets. I’ve never been let down by either.
The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage. I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price. They are half the price of other….better….bullets.
Do you have photos or video of the bullet that "exploded" on a bear shoulder?
I have pics of the bear a year later still alive. Huge bald spot on the high shoulder. I’ll see if I can find the picture. I didn’t take a picture of the hair / hide I found on point of impact, but it was the size of a softball.
A well documented miracle of terminal ballistics would be neat to see. Otherwise, I don't believe for a second that a 212gr cup and core bullet at 2000+ fps failed to penetrate 4" of meat and bone.
:dunno: :dunno: Wow....not sure how to take this. Why would I have a reason to lie about it. I found the pics, but feel like you may be calling me a liar. I've killed or been part of kills involving a lot of deer, elk, bear, moose, etc. and have no reason to lie. Had I not gotten pictures of this bear after the fact (still alive and well), I guess I would just have been a liar. Other members have seen the pics, and they may be posted on the site somewhere. Maybe I'll just keep you pondering on how a 212 grain cup and core bullet can defy all terminal ballistics and hold on to the pics for now.
The same gun and bullet killed two bull moose, one of which was a very large bull. First bull was shot in the head at 40 ish yards. It locked its legs and stayed standing. I stepped around the brush and put two shots behind the shoulder. At 40 yards, neither of those rounds exited the bull.
Moose #2, the big moose was shot twice at 300 yards. The first round hit the bull behind the shoulders and appears to have penciled all the way through. Exit wound was the diameter of my pinky. The bull lunged a few feet and went to his knees. Second round went through the neck to finish it. I'm not sure if this bull would have made it to it's feet, we would have ever found it. The entry and exit hole were teh same size.
I didn't take pics of the wounds so you will have to take my word on it. :rolleyes:
Post by: Bareback on August 26, 2024, 06:48:32 AM
I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X. Performance was very inconsistent. I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear. Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again. Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill. That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.
I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets. I’ve never been let down by either.
The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage. I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price. They are half the price of other….better….bullets.
Were you aiming for the shoulder?
Post by: jrebel on August 26, 2024, 07:13:09 AM
I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X. Performance was very inconsistent. I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear. Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again. Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill. That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.
I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets. I’ve never been let down by either.
The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage. I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price. They are half the price of other….better….bullets.
Were you aiming for the shoulder?
Yes, high shoulder entrance with what should have been a behind the offside shoulder exit. Very slightly quartering two shot and I had elevation so a slight downward shot. It was a bigger bear so I wanted to anchor it. I have taken high shoulder shots before on bear and it usually immobilizes them quick.
My take on the bullet (and a lot of people share the same sentiment). It is thin walled at high velocity, it will fragment / explode on impact. It is really designed to work on the lower end of the velocity scale and be an effective long range bullet (this is by its design and name). Hornady wanted a design that would work at all ranges and velocities. This is a difficult task as the property of bullets and their performance is often dictated by velocity at impact. This is why a lot of hunters that love the ELD-X’s accuracy are using the match (ELD-M) for their hunting bullet. I have not done this, but apparently success has been great.
Post by: pickardjw on August 26, 2024, 08:10:46 AM
I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X. Performance was very inconsistent. I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear. Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again. Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill. That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.
I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets. I’ve never been let down by either.
The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage. I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price. They are half the price of other….better….bullets.
Do you have photos or video of the bullet that "exploded" on a bear shoulder?
I have pics of the bear a year later still alive. Huge bald spot on the high shoulder. I’ll see if I can find the picture. I didn’t take a picture of the hair / hide I found on point of impact, but it was the size of a softball.
A well documented miracle of terminal ballistics would be neat to see. Otherwise, I don't believe for a second that a 212gr cup and core bullet at 2000+ fps failed to penetrate 4" of meat and bone.
:dunno: :dunno: Wow....not sure how to take this. Why would I have a reason to lie about it. I found the pics, but feel like you may be calling me a liar. I've killed or been part of kills involving a lot of deer, elk, bear, moose, etc. and have no reason to lie. Had I not gotten pictures of this bear after the fact (still alive and well), I guess I would just have been a liar. Other members have seen the pics, and they may be posted on the site somewhere. Maybe I'll just keep you pondering on how a 212 grain cup and core bullet can defy all terminal ballistics and hold on to the pics for now.
The same gun and bullet killed two bull moose, one of which was a very large bull. First bull was shot in the head at 40 ish yards. It locked its legs and stayed standing. I stepped around the brush and put two shots behind the shoulder. At 40 yards, neither of those rounds exited the bull.
Moose #2, the big moose was shot twice at 300 yards. The first round hit the bull behind the shoulders and appears to have penciled all the way through. Exit wound was the diameter of my pinky. The bull lunged a few feet and went to his knees. Second round went through the neck to finish it. I'm not sure if this bull would have made it to it's feet, we would have ever found it. The entry and exit hole were teh same size.
I didn't take pics of the wounds so you will have to take my word on it. :rolleyes:
Not saying you're lying, that would imply some sort of malicious intent. I'm saying that the performance of that bullet as described is so improbable that it requires a higher degree of evidence.
Post by: Bareback on August 26, 2024, 08:43:11 AM
The only draw back to a shoulder shot is if it doesn’t immobilize the bear. At a 250 yrd shot the bullet is in flight for two tenths of a second. In that time frame a lot of movement can be achieved. A broadside shot can turn into a quartering shot pretty quick. At which an angle of deflection could become a factor. How many times have archery elk hunters hit the front leg/shoulder do to the fact the animal stepped right after release.
I’m not doubting your story line since I have had very similar experience on a bear with a 300 WSM 180 EDLX. Sure there are better bullets but EDLX bullets have done just fine in my experience in 6.5, .300 and .338 calibers when shot placement has been in the boilermaker.
Thanks for your insights 👍
Post by: b23 on August 26, 2024, 08:52:28 AM
All joking aside reading the description of your bear/bullet failure story does make one go Hmmm ok if you say so because the idea of a 212gr ELD-X just splashing on the surface of a bear's shoulder not penetrating and just blowing the hair off makes for a story that is very difficult to believe under about any circumstance. Maybe there's more to it but as presented it's a tough one to go with without raising doubt.
Post by: Mtnwalker on August 26, 2024, 09:12:29 AM
Post by: Tbar on August 26, 2024, 11:04:49 AM
Pickardjw, with all do respect real world hunting and changing variables create situations as jrebel describes. If you haven't experienced similar I'd question your credentials to question real world performance vs controlled probabilities. No higher degree of evidence needed, I've lived way to many impossibilities. :twocents:I have killed two moose with the 30 cal 212 ELD-X. Performance was very inconsistent. I have also shot a bear that the bullet didn’t penetrate the shoulder and just exploded blowing hair and meat off the bear. Based on those results, I won’t shoot them on game ever again. Very accurate bullet and like most bullets will kill. That said, there are better bullets on the market that have consistent and reliable performance.
I shoot accubonds (not accubond long range) and hammer bullets. I’ve never been let down by either.
The ABLR is in the same class as the ELD-X and are garbage. I’m pretty sure folks like the ELD-X because the price. They are half the price of other….better….bullets.
Do you have photos or video of the bullet that "exploded" on a bear shoulder?
I have pics of the bear a year later still alive. Huge bald spot on the high shoulder. I’ll see if I can find the picture. I didn’t take a picture of the hair / hide I found on point of impact, but it was the size of a softball.
A well documented miracle of terminal ballistics would be neat to see. Otherwise, I don't believe for a second that a 212gr cup and core bullet at 2000+ fps failed to penetrate 4" of meat and bone.
:dunno: :dunno: Wow....not sure how to take this. Why would I have a reason to lie about it. I found the pics, but feel like you may be calling me a liar. I've killed or been part of kills involving a lot of deer, elk, bear, moose, etc. and have no reason to lie. Had I not gotten pictures of this bear after the fact (still alive and well), I guess I would just have been a liar. Other members have seen the pics, and they may be posted on the site somewhere. Maybe I'll just keep you pondering on how a 212 grain cup and core bullet can defy all terminal ballistics and hold on to the pics for now.
The same gun and bullet killed two bull moose, one of which was a very large bull. First bull was shot in the head at 40 ish yards. It locked its legs and stayed standing. I stepped around the brush and put two shots behind the shoulder. At 40 yards, neither of those rounds exited the bull.
Moose #2, the big moose was shot twice at 300 yards. The first round hit the bull behind the shoulders and appears to have penciled all the way through. Exit wound was the diameter of my pinky. The bull lunged a few feet and went to his knees. Second round went through the neck to finish it. I'm not sure if this bull would have made it to it's feet, we would have ever found it. The entry and exit hole were teh same size.
I didn't take pics of the wounds so you will have to take my word on it. :rolleyes:
Not saying you're lying, that would imply some sort of malicious intent. I'm saying that the performance of that bullet as described is so improbable that it requires a higher degree of evidence.
Post by: chukardogs on August 26, 2024, 12:49:05 PM
I do have to ask, (may not be the place but) I read in one of the earlier post on this thread that "someone used my rifle" to shoot an an animal. I'd like to know, even with a scope, how many have found when shooting their buddies rifle, that your point of impact was identical to theirs? I've shot a few of my buddies rifles and have found, not one of them hit where I thought it should. I hunted with my grandfather's 06 for the first year or two of my hunting career before adjusting the sights to fit me. I think my father wanted me to learn, as long as you know where it's hitting, you know where to point. Not positive but it's the only thing that ever made sense.
If you do something enough times, you'll eventually have a result that doesn't match your expectations. I think based on what I've read here, I'll stick with my Grand Slams and Barnes LRX and then live with the results. Great discussion! Hearing about the experiences of others and being willing to accept that their experiences may very from your own is always advantageous to any endeavor. Thanks
Post by: pickardjw on August 26, 2024, 03:13:29 PM
I'd personally wager that a lot of perceived "bullet failures" are actually a product of mistaken shot placement.
Exactly. With the amount of people digiscoping kill shot these days, you would think the evidence to back up the claims of bullets "splashing" on deer/elk/bear shoulders would exist...
Post by: jrebel on August 26, 2024, 03:51:07 PM
In hindsight, I would have not taken a shoulder shot using this frangible bullet. I too subscribed to the rhetoric that a 212 grain bullet out of a 300 win mag would wo to stern any big game animal in North America....I was wrong.
I'll have to ponder other possibilities of how this bear didn't die with such a great bullet.
Post by: pickardjw on August 26, 2024, 04:07:08 PM
Post by: jrebel on August 26, 2024, 04:21:22 PM
Or the bullet did not hit the bear first.
Across a small canyon with nothing in between me and the bear. I was sitting in a grass opening, the bear was feeding on an open hillside 100% exposed. It was feeding on grass and rolling rocks for bugs. This was a spring bear hunt.
Post by: The Big Game Hunter on August 26, 2024, 06:38:37 PM
Would a poorly placed 212 grain ELD-X out of a 300 win mag.....that took off a softball patch of flesh leave an exit wound?? Ballistics and conventional knowledge would say there isn't a bear in Washington that could stop a 212 grain ELD-X from full penetration with exit wound. I've got pics of both side of the bear a year later and no exit wound exists.....so either it dynamited on the onside shoulder or it fragged the inside of the bears shoulder not killing it. The later is a definite possibility....but that would also suggest complete failure of an ELD-X....which clearly cannot be the case. :rolleyes:This is a frustrating situation to be sure made even more frustrating by the fact that, since you didn't kill the bear, we'll never know for sure exactly what happened. For that reason, we're basically guessing. We're making educated guesses to be sure, but those are still guesses nonetheless.
In hindsight, I would have not taken a shoulder shot using this frangible bullet. I too subscribed to the rhetoric that a 212 grain bullet out of a 300 win mag would wo to stern any big game animal in North America....I was wrong.
I'll have to ponder other possibilities of how this bear didn't die with such a great bullet.
Bullets DO indeed "splash" on game from time to time. That doesn't happen as often as some people might have you believe, but they certainly do occur.
I don't know what happened with this bear, but I also don't believe you're lying about what you saw happen either. Like you, I would have thought a 212gr bullet (even an ELD-X) would penetrate all the way through a black bear from most angles on a shot at 200+ yards.
For instance, I shot a blackbuck with a 175gr ELD-X from a 7mm PRC at about 55 yards. This was a strongly quartering shot at close range, so if there were a situation tailor made for an ELD-X to "splash", I would have thought that would be it. Yet, that bullet went straight through that front shoulder (shattering it in the process) and then exited just in front of the opposite hip. It made a mess out of the animal, but it dropped right there and the bullet still exited, leaving a good sized (though not gigantic) exit wound.
Why didn't that happen with your bear using an even heavier bullet, with a higher sectional density, and less impact velocity?
Who knows. Maybe my performance was a fluke. Maybe the performance you observed was a fluke.
Maybe your bullet had some sort of defect in it that caused it to fail.
Maybe something else happened.
Even so, I'm sorry to hear about your experience and I appreciate you sharing it with us.
I'd love to see the photos you mentioned, be that via sharing on this thread or via PM.
Post by: pickardjw on August 26, 2024, 07:26:43 PM
Post by: jrebel on August 26, 2024, 09:02:51 PM
Rocks are great for ricochets/shrapnel.
Nailed it!!!......It ricocheted off a rock exploding the bullet in an upward direction hitting 33 1/2 blades of grass...prior to impact. I'm not sure why I didn't run this scenario by you in the first place??? Had I, I would likely still be shooting those bullets and have great success. I wouldn't be frustrated knowing a beautiful red colored bear didn't come home with me that year. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: 2MANY on August 26, 2024, 09:31:38 PM
Post by: The Big Game Hunter on August 27, 2024, 03:34:17 AM
Rocks are great for ricochets/shrapnel.:beatdeadhorse:
Post by: hunter399 on August 27, 2024, 07:15:00 AM
If I ever get a shot opportunity,I'll let you guys know how it works out.
If I remember correctly, 145 grain with 55.5 grains h4831.
Post by: Sneaky Squirrel on August 27, 2024, 07:45:10 AM
I will say, I've had great luck with the ELDX out of the 6.5PRC. I've shot probably 10 elk and deer with this combination and have great results. I shot a bull(small rag horn) over 600 yards and it was dead in 15 seconds, right thru the lungs, pass thru hitting a rib on entry and exit. The buck i shot last year was 175 yards away, it was a quartering to shot, went thru the front shoulder and the bullet was stuck in the hide on the outside shoulder. The deer didn't make it 10 yards before starting his roll.
All that said, if i had something happen to me like the shot on the bear, i would probably be done with them too.
But experience over the last 5 years has proved otherwise for me so until something happens like above, i will continue using the ELDX for hunting. I will say use what you have confidence in, it don't matter what other people think.
Post by: jrebel on August 27, 2024, 09:07:32 AM
Post by: HntnFsh on August 27, 2024, 09:26:09 AM
Post by: The Big Game Hunter on August 27, 2024, 09:52:42 AM
Fortunately the bear is still very much alive. I am always on the lookout for it in hopes of crossing paths again, it is a beautiful bear.That would be really cool if you closed the deal with him one of these days. Not only for redemption, but to be able to examine him up close and hopefully get a better idea of what happened with that shot with the ELD-X.
if you shot him this year, what do you think you'd be using?
Post by: jrebel on August 27, 2024, 10:10:42 AM
Fortunately the bear is still very much alive. I am always on the lookout for it in hopes of crossing paths again, it is a beautiful bear.That would be really cool if you closed the deal with him one of these days. Not only for redemption, but to be able to examine him up close and hopefully get a better idea of what happened with that shot with the ELD-X.
if you shot him this year, what do you think you'd be using?
One of three rifles.
338 lapua with 260 grain Hammer Hunter
300 wsm with 168 grain tipped hammer hunter
450 marlin with 325 gr leverevolution
If my son gets a crack at it, he will be shooting a 300 wsm and 180 grain accubond.
Post by: hunter399 on August 27, 2024, 11:29:48 AM
243 ,103 grain eldx , factory seconds from midway.
Can't remember the load,I do know it was hybrid v.
Few grains over max,3000+ MV.
The bear ,I'll admit my shot placement was not where I was aiming.
Aimed for front shoulder,hit him in the neck. Cartwheeled like a sack of potatoes and was done. Pretty big hole in neck.
Cougar was better shot placement.
Aimed front shoulder, hit front shoulder.
Found the bullet just under the hide while skining it.
I weighed it,it was 30 something grains,it had lost 2/3 of its weight.
But also dumped all of its energy,and no tracking.
That's my experience so far.
I think Hornady wanted a bullet that shoots like a max,retains weight like a hunting bullet. Trying to achieve best of both worlds.
Which is not an easy task.
Post by: snowshoes22 on August 27, 2024, 01:05:21 PM
Post by: westsidehntr on August 27, 2024, 01:20:43 PM
103gr eld-x recovered from mule deer. Shot from a 6 arc. All recovered bullets have had core separation. All shots were over 250 yds. Broadside shots, no heavy bone.
What happened to the animals?
Post by: snowshoes22 on August 27, 2024, 02:02:14 PM
Post by: westsidehntr on August 27, 2024, 02:33:00 PM
Dead less than 30yds. Wounds were similar to the pictures posted on page 1
So performance was spectacular. 👍
Post by: addicted on August 27, 2024, 04:03:39 PM
There are guys that shoot a soft bullet out of a fast burner cartridge and complain about over expansion then there are guys that shoot a barnes out of their 308 and wonder why it ran forever with a pencil hole through it.
A 50% chunk poking deep with a massive wound channel internally sounds pretty optimal. You pic a bullet based off expected speed at hunting range and what it does at those speeds.
Post by: crabcreekhunter on August 27, 2024, 04:39:19 PM
Post by: The Big Game Hunter on August 27, 2024, 04:44:26 PM
I’ve shot bears at 25 yards and bull elk/deer from 100-600 yards. .284 162 eldx at 2975MV. Nothing but great results and haven’t recovered a bullet yet, golf ball sized exits. Will continue to use them for my applications. With that I don’t doubt, a splash is possible. I’ve seen it with other light bullets at high velocity, or catch bone at a weird angle of deflection. I think Forrest Gump said it best, “S$/? Happens”. For all out penetration go mono, but I’ve had my issues with those. Meet in the middle with a accubond or partition and kill stuff.What cartridge have you used these bullets in? 7mm Rem Mag?
Post by: The Big Game Hunter on August 27, 2024, 04:45:49 PM
103gr eld-x recovered from mule deer. Shot from a 6 arc. All recovered bullets have had core separation. All shots were over 250 yds. Broadside shots, no heavy bone.What muzzle velocity are you getting with those bullets out of your 6 ARC?
And where are you physically finding those bullets? Right under the hide on the off side?
Post by: crabcreekhunter on August 27, 2024, 04:51:45 PM
280AI.I’ve shot bears at 25 yards and bull elk/deer from 100-600 yards. .284 162 eldx at 2975MV. Nothing but great results and haven’t recovered a bullet yet, golf ball sized exits. Will continue to use them for my applications. With that I don’t doubt, a splash is possible. I’ve seen it with other light bullets at high velocity, or catch bone at a weird angle of deflection. I think Forrest Gump said it best, “S$/? Happens”. For all out penetration go mono, but I’ve had my issues with those. Meet in the middle with a accubond or partition and kill stuff.What cartridge have you used these bullets in? 7mm Rem Mag?
Post by: jrebel on August 27, 2024, 08:27:31 PM
You inbox is full.
Post by: 280ackley on August 27, 2024, 09:45:58 PM
Post by: crabcreekhunter on August 27, 2024, 10:01:18 PM
@crabcreekhunterFixed
You inbox is full.
Post by: The Big Game Hunter on August 28, 2024, 04:25:46 AM
That was my next guess!280AI.I’ve shot bears at 25 yards and bull elk/deer from 100-600 yards. .284 162 eldx at 2975MV. Nothing but great results and haven’t recovered a bullet yet, golf ball sized exits. Will continue to use them for my applications. With that I don’t doubt, a splash is possible. I’ve seen it with other light bullets at high velocity, or catch bone at a weird angle of deflection. I think Forrest Gump said it best, “S$/? Happens”. For all out penetration go mono, but I’ve had my issues with those. Meet in the middle with a accubond or partition and kill stuff.What cartridge have you used these bullets in? 7mm Rem Mag?
Post by: The Big Game Hunter on August 28, 2024, 04:26:49 AM
Interesting thread. Plan is to check em out this year,,, I'll be using 175 ELDX out of my 28 Nosler at 3191fps. I'll report back on how they do.I look forward to it. Results with the 175gr ELD-X were impressive out of my 7mm PRC. I'm curious to hear how they work going even faster out of your 28 Nosler.
Post by: pickardjw on August 28, 2024, 05:53:33 AM
Rocks are great for ricochets/shrapnel.
Nailed it!!!......It ricocheted off a rock exploding the bullet in an upward direction hitting 33 1/2 blades of grass...prior to impact. I'm not sure why I didn't run this scenario by you in the first place??? Had I, I would likely still be shooting those bullets and have great success. I wouldn't be frustrated knowing a beautiful red colored bear didn't come home with me that year. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Maybe the bear had shoulder replacement surgery and they put a steel shoulder blade in? :chuckle:
People would rather blame the equipment than admit they might have missed.
Like I said, if you ever find actual proof of an ELD-X performing as you think that one did myself and plenty of others would be interested in seeing it.
Post by: Rob on August 28, 2024, 07:03:21 AM
As for Bullet Performance, I have taken a mule deer with the ELDX chambered in 6.5 Cred at 325 yards. It walked 20 feet and fell over - massive damage in the chest. I have also taken a bear with the ELD X chambered in 7mm Rem Mag at a closer range - probably 150. There were some shooter related performance issues but it dropped dead once I put a bullet in the right place.
Regarding the "discussion" about splash and feasibility of that happening. I have no dog in that race - not calling into question anybody's experience as I was not there. I will say that I have seen 2 very odd things happen with bullets that I cannot really explain.
1. I have a buddy who is a machinist. Very detail oriented perfectionist in many regards. He has been reloading for decades and builds his own rifles. I was doing some spotting for him - he was shooting a 243 at some 7 inch targets about 550/600 yards away. Good day for trace so I could see every shot he took fly and land. shot after shot was on target or just an inch or so to one side or the other of the target. Then he took one shot and the bullet sank like a rock. It was like it was caught in a big downdraft and plummeted to the ground. I bet he hit 20 feet low. Most likely a low powder charge we all agreed but the guy is meticulous so that would be unexpected.
2. My dad shot a reedbuck in 2016. 260 yards, no idea what bullet. One shot and it went down. It got up a short while later and its front leg was destroyed at the knee. We tracked that antelope for about a mile. The whole thing is on Video. I did some slow motion screen captures and what I saw was very very odd. The bullet seems to hit the front leg, and a spot in the dirt behind the animal at the exact same time. Not sure if it hit a rock and the leg hit was a ricochet, or if it hit the leg and somehow ricocheted into the field behind the animal, or if a bit of bone flew out of the leg and hit the field behind the animal. The shots below show the sequence. The cameraman was sitting 3 feet to the side of the shooter so the camera angle and shooter angle are roughly the same.
All this to say, sometimes unexpected things happen between the muzzle and the point of impact. Again, not saying anyone's experiences did not happen, just sharing a couple of mine.
Post by: Rob on August 28, 2024, 07:23:37 AM
Being a bonded bullet, the chances of separation of the bullet seem pretty small. But who knows!
Post by: dreadi on August 28, 2024, 01:33:21 PM
My recent communication with Seekins included them telling me, "I would 100% push you in the direction of Hornady Precision Hunter or Hornady Match! They are what we shoot and accuracy test rifles with!". So I just have to wonder....they are getting the results they want to see using the lower cost product....but paper doesn't equate to kills.
What is the deal with the significant price difference? I don't know Since it costs more, does it kill better? I don't know.
Post by: snowshoes22 on August 28, 2024, 01:43:51 PM
103gr eld-x recovered from mule deer. Shot from a 6 arc. All recovered bullets have had core separation. All shots were over 250 yds. Broadside shots, no heavy bone.What muzzle velocity are you getting with those bullets out of your 6 ARC?
And where are you physically finding those bullets? Right under the hide on the off side?
2750-2800 fps if i remember correctly. My 10 and 12 year old boys are shooting 6 arc AR's. One has a 16" barrel the other a 24". 3 of 5 bullets have been recovered under the far side hide on 5 different deer between the 2 of them. I found the only bullet performance pic i took on a small 2x3 my then 9 yo shot last year at 318 yds.
Post by: Mtnwalker on August 28, 2024, 04:30:01 PM
Reading all of this will make a guy's head spin. After reading one of the points made, I decided to investigate the cost difference between Hunter Precision ELDX 300 PRC and Accubond 300WM. From a dealer perspective, it's a 59% increase between the two with Accubonds being the higher cost. Comparing Sportsman's Warehouse prices, it's a 72.43% spread
My recent communication with Seekins included them telling me, "I would 100% push you in the direction of Hornady Precision Hunter or Hornady Match! They are what we shoot and accuracy test rifles with!". So I just have to wonder....they are getting the results they want to see using the lower cost product....but paper doesn't equate to kills.
What is the deal with the significant price difference? I don't know Since it costs more, does it kill better? I don't know.
IMO Nosler is a bit too proud of their products these days. That being said, it comes down to what you personally like to see out of a bullet. If you judge the performance of a bullet by whether it provides an exit hole or not, then ELD's (x or M) might not be for you. If you enjoy pinpoint accuracy, extended shooting ranges, and massive trauma to the vitals then they might be right up your alley. I personally don't shoot the eld-x but I am a big fan of the M's. Stellar accuracy and everything we have put them in has died very dead, from really close to really far. :dunno:
Post by: The Big Game Hunter on August 29, 2024, 04:47:03 AM
Reading all of this will make a guy's head spin. After reading one of the points made, I decided to investigate the cost difference between Hunter Precision ELDX 300 PRC and Accubond 300WM. From a dealer perspective, it's a 59% increase between the two with Accubonds being the higher cost. Comparing Sportsman's Warehouse prices, it's a 72.43% spreadPart of the cost difference has to do with the Nosler name. Though it's much more of an issue with the Partition than the AccuBond, part of it also has to do with the fact that Nosler bullets are more expensive to manufacture due to the nature of their construction. The Partition isn't a bonded bullet, but it's time consuming to make a dual core bullet like that. Look at prices for other Premium bonded bullets (like the Swift A-Frame and Federal Terminal Ascent) and you'll see they're also pretty expensive like the AccuBond.
My recent communication with Seekins included them telling me, "I would 100% push you in the direction of Hornady Precision Hunter or Hornady Match! They are what we shoot and accuracy test rifles with!". So I just have to wonder....they are getting the results they want to see using the lower cost product....but paper doesn't equate to kills.
What is the deal with the significant price difference? I don't know Since it costs more, does it kill better? I don't know.
The guys at Seekins aren't wrong about Hornady Precision Hunter or Match ammo. Most companies do indeed test their rifles for accuracy with that stuff and saying ammo from those 2 Hornady lines is accurate isn't a particularly controversial statement.
Speaking in broad generalities, the Hornady Precision Hunter and Match ammo will usually be more accurate than Nosler ammo. That's not to say that Partitions and AccuBonds aren't accurate (or aren't accurate enough for most hunting situations), but the the ELD-X and Match bullets will generally have the edge here on average, especially as range increases and small improvements in accuracy become more important.
Likewise, those Hornady bullets generally have a much higher BC (comparing bullets of the same caliber and similar weight) and therefore retain velocity and energy much better at extended range. They also do better in windy conditions. Those advantages are less of an issue at closer range (like 400 yards and in), but are very important as the range increases. They'll also still expand at lower impact velocities too, like you'll encounter at longer range.
Things are different when it comes to terminal performance. In my experience, Nosler AccuBonds and (especially) Partitions penetrate MUCH better than the ELD-X or Match bullets. Some argue that the ELD-X/M bullets penetrate enough to get the job done, but this thread is a textbook example of how not everyone agrees with that statement. The two Hornady bullets are pretty soft and expand readily at lower impact velocities. This also means they REALLY expand at higher velocities, which is what leads to complaints about their penetration sometimes. That is a double edged sword though and that massive expansion will also usually cause massive trauma to the vitals of an animal.
When it all comes together, the result is very fast kills and (potentially) lots of meat damage. Meat damage does vary depending on your exact shot placement and impact velocity.
The shortcomings of the ELD Match and ELD-X bullets are most apparent at close range (with very high impact velocities), especially when they strike heavy bone and/or when taking a strongly quartering shot.
On the other hand, those situations are where Nosler Partitions and AccuBonds really tend to shine because they penetrate so much better. Plus, the advantages of the Hornady bullets in terms of BC and accuracy are least apparent at closer range.
All things considered, I don't think one is necessarily better than the other because (though there is a big overlap in their use cases), Nosler and Hornady bullets are optimized for different situations.
There are no solutions, only tradeoffs.
If you are unlikely to take a shot past 200-300 yards, then I'd go with a Nosler, or a similar bullet along those lines.
If you want better performance at longer range, then I'd go with the Hornady ELD-X.
Post by: Rick on September 14, 2024, 11:42:51 AM
The eld-x performed perfectly. The bull stumbled about 10yds and fell over dead.
Post by: hunter399 on September 14, 2024, 12:44:22 PM
The difference between Hornady and nosler is.Reading all of this will make a guy's head spin. After reading one of the points made, I decided to investigate the cost difference between Hunter Precision ELDX 300 PRC and Accubond 300WM. From a dealer perspective, it's a 59% increase between the two with Accubonds being the higher cost. Comparing Sportsman's Warehouse prices, it's a 72.43% spreadPart of the cost difference has to do with the Nosler name. Though it's much more of an issue with the Partition than the AccuBond, part of it also has to do with the fact that Nosler bullets are more expensive to manufacture due to the nature of their construction. The Partition isn't a bonded bullet, but it's time consuming to make a dual core bullet like that. Look at prices for other Premium bonded bullets (like the Swift A-Frame and Federal Terminal Ascent) and you'll see they're also pretty expensive like the AccuBond.
My recent communication with Seekins included them telling me, "I would 100% push you in the direction of Hornady Precision Hunter or Hornady Match! They are what we shoot and accuracy test rifles with!". So I just have to wonder....they are getting the results they want to see using the lower cost product....but paper doesn't equate to kills.
What is the deal with the significant price difference? I don't know Since it costs more, does it kill better? I don't know.
The guys at Seekins aren't wrong about Hornady Precision Hunter or Match ammo. Most companies do indeed test their rifles for accuracy with that stuff and saying ammo from those 2 Hornady lines is accurate isn't a particularly controversial statement.
Speaking in broad generalities, the Hornady Precision Hunter and Match ammo will usually be more accurate than Nosler ammo. That's not to say that Partitions and AccuBonds aren't accurate (or aren't accurate enough for most hunting situations), but the the ELD-X and Match bullets will generally have the edge here on average, especially as range increases and small improvements in accuracy become more important.
Likewise, those Hornady bullets generally have a much higher BC (comparing bullets of the same caliber and similar weight) and therefore retain velocity and energy much better at extended range. They also do better in windy conditions. Those advantages are less of an issue at closer range (like 400 yards and in), but are very important as the range increases. They'll also still expand at lower impact velocities too, like you'll encounter at longer range.
Things are different when it comes to terminal performance. In my experience, Nosler AccuBonds and (especially) Partitions penetrate MUCH better than the ELD-X or Match bullets. Some argue that the ELD-X/M bullets penetrate enough to get the job done, but this thread is a textbook example of how not everyone agrees with that statement. The two Hornady bullets are pretty soft and expand readily at lower impact velocities. This also means they REALLY expand at higher velocities, which is what leads to complaints about their penetration sometimes. That is a double edged sword though and that massive expansion will also usually cause massive trauma to the vitals of an animal.
When it all comes together, the result is very fast kills and (potentially) lots of meat damage. Meat damage does vary depending on your exact shot placement and impact velocity.
The shortcomings of the ELD Match and ELD-X bullets are most apparent at close range (with very high impact velocities), especially when they strike heavy bone and/or when taking a strongly quartering shot.
On the other hand, those situations are where Nosler Partitions and AccuBonds really tend to shine because they penetrate so much better. Plus, the advantages of the Hornady bullets in terms of BC and accuracy are least apparent at closer range.
All things considered, I don't think one is necessarily better than the other because (though there is a big overlap in their use cases), Nosler and Hornady bullets are optimized for different situations.
There are no solutions, only tradeoffs.
If you are unlikely to take a shot past 200-300 yards, then I'd go with a Nosler, or a similar bullet along those lines.
If you want better performance at longer range, then I'd go with the Hornady ELD-X.
Nosler through us (reloader) under the bus during COVID. To try and make a mint on selling factory ammo .
Basically supply and demand,nosler knows they had a product that everyone wanted . So they kept reloading supplies limited.pushed harder to sell already loaded factory ammo.
Hornady didn't do that. They ramped up production,kept reloading supplies on the shelf . While they pushed new products,such as eld-x in factory loading and boxes of bullets.
When every bullet manufacturers was sold out,you could still find a Hornady option.
They earned my respect and my money.
They sell a great product for the price.
Post by: Rob on September 14, 2024, 01:34:34 PM
Post by: lewy on September 14, 2024, 02:44:28 PM
Post by: lhrbull on September 14, 2024, 09:46:22 PM
Post by: MLHSN on September 15, 2024, 07:34:15 AM
Post by: Buckbungler on September 20, 2024, 08:09:21 PM
Post by: addicted on September 23, 2024, 12:52:14 PM
Reading all of this will make a guy's head spin. After reading one of the points made, I decided to investigate the cost difference between Hunter Precision ELDX 300 PRC and Accubond 300WM. From a dealer perspective, it's a 59% increase between the two with Accubonds being the higher cost. Comparing Sportsman's Warehouse prices, it's a 72.43% spread
My recent communication with Seekins included them telling me, "I would 100% push you in the direction of Hornady Precision Hunter or Hornady Match! They are what we shoot and accuracy test rifles with!". So I just have to wonder....they are getting the results they want to see using the lower cost product....but paper doesn't equate to kills.
What is the deal with the significant price difference? I don't know Since it costs more, does it kill better? I don't know.
thats why ive been steering away from the accubond. They got really expensive and sometimes they dissapear for months and months. I think i couldnt get 140 grain .284's for almost three years. They were selling on gun broker for more than 2$ a bullet.
Post by: jrebel on September 23, 2024, 02:29:32 PM
It is entertaining to see folks buy a $1000-$5000 rifle, top it with a $500-$2500 scope and put another $250-$1000 worth of accessories...... Just to worry about the cost of a bullet. :chuckle: :chuckle:
I shoot Mono's and they average $1-$3 per round. We shoot a lot and I practice with my hunting rounds. I refuse to shoot cheap bullets for he sole reason they are cheap. If they work and they are cheap....by all means....but don't just buy a bullet because it is cheap after spending what you spent on your rifle.
Inventory was a definite issue over the last three years.....but knowing that was the case, now is the time to stock up. Bullets don't go bad, buy 3-5 years worth based on your shooting habits. Store them correctly and you will be good to go.
Post by: addicted on September 23, 2024, 03:00:10 PM
Post by: addicted on September 23, 2024, 03:04:29 PM
I've seen plenty of "good" shots with stiff bullets let an animal run. Its all about picking a soft/stiff enough bullet for your application and how likely you are as a hunter to need to shoot through the a-s-s on the animal to get through to the goods. The 308 is a relatively lethargic cartridge so a soft bullet is great, even softer than the ELD-X.
Post by: b23 on September 23, 2024, 05:32:47 PM
You get what you pay for.
It is entertaining to see folks buy a $1000-$5000 rifle, top it with a $500-$2500 scope and put another $250-$1000 worth of accessories...... Just to worry about the cost of a bullet. :chuckle: :chuckle:
I shoot Mono's and they average $1-$3 per round. We shoot a lot and I practice with my hunting rounds. I refuse to shoot cheap bullets for he sole reason they are cheap. If they work and they are cheap....by all means....but don't just buy a bullet because it is cheap after spending what you spent on your rifle.
Inventory was a definite issue over the last three years.....but knowing that was the case, now is the time to stock up. Bullets don't go bad, buy 3-5 years worth based on your shooting habits. Store them correctly and you will be good to go.
I don't, personally, know a single person that shoots Berger or Hornady bullets, over ANY mono on the market, because they cost less. They all choose to shoot Berger's or Hornady's over mono's simply because they shoot as well as perform better for them.
I'm a firm believer in using whatever makes you happy so if mono's work/perform to your liking nothing else matters but it is no secret, on the whole and by a relatively large margin, conventional bullets shoot better for the vast majority of shooters than do mono's.
Post by: jrebel on September 23, 2024, 05:47:20 PM
You get what you pay for.
It is entertaining to see folks buy a $1000-$5000 rifle, top it with a $500-$2500 scope and put another $250-$1000 worth of accessories...... Just to worry about the cost of a bullet. :chuckle: :chuckle:
I shoot Mono's and they average $1-$3 per round. We shoot a lot and I practice with my hunting rounds. I refuse to shoot cheap bullets for he sole reason they are cheap. If they work and they are cheap....by all means....but don't just buy a bullet because it is cheap after spending what you spent on your rifle.
Inventory was a definite issue over the last three years.....but knowing that was the case, now is the time to stock up. Bullets don't go bad, buy 3-5 years worth based on your shooting habits. Store them correctly and you will be good to go.
I don't, personally, know a single person that shoots Berger or Hornady bullets, over ANY mono on the market, because they cost less. They all choose to shoot Berger's or Hornady's over mono's simply because they shoot as well as perform better for them.
I'm a firm believer in using whatever makes you happy so if mono's work/perform to your liking nothing else matters but it is no secret, on the whole and by a relatively large margin, conventional bullets shoot better for the vast majority of shooters than do mono's.
I apparently didn't make my point clear enough.....And I could care less what what others shoot.... But, I continuously hear how expensive some bullets are and that people refuse to pay "X" for said bullet. It is just laughable to me that folks will buy thousands of dollars worth of gear and then complain over a couple dollars.
Same is true for folks that complain about the cost of broadheads. The Arrows they are shooting are 10-20 dollars per arrow and they complain about the price of the broadhead.
Or they buy a 80-1000K truck and say they are not hunting this year because gas / diesel is $4/gallon.
Accubonds are some of the best hunting bullets on the market (in my opinion) and folks complain about the cost. I still shoot accubonds in a few of my rifles and won't change those rifles to mono's till the state forces our hands. I also shoot mono's in many of my rifles and they are some of the most accurate and deadly rounds I have ever shot. My point is simple....quality usually cost more. Not always...but usually.
I would challenge your performance points with mono's though. I have been reloading for 25 years and can say without question, the mono's I am reloading are some of the most accurate rounds I have ever loaded. They are also the easiest rounds I have ever loaded (the process in it's entirety). They kill very effectively and quickly and I have never recovered a shank as they always produce and entry and exit wound. Would a pick a mono for extreme long range.....probably not, just do to the limitations of velocity. That said, I'm also not really into the extreme long range hunting scenario....I'll keep my shots to 800 or less and in most cases 600 or less.
Post by: Stevewazfishing on October 20, 2024, 05:56:45 PM
Post by: fowl smacker on October 20, 2024, 10:02:22 PM
I can say after a good amount of experience with a 143 gr eldx out of the 6.5 creedmoor, they perform excellent out of that cartridge. I’ve taken 11 deer and bear with that combo now from 50 to a little over 300 yards and have been nothing but impressed with zero issues. At this point in time after the results I have seen, I have nothing but confidence in this combo on deer and bear sized game at reasonable hunting distances.Same. We've killed 3 whitetail and 4 blacktail with the same bullet out of my 6.5 creed now. Closest was 43 yds, furthest was 570 yds. Not one went more than 15 yards from where they stood.
Post by: zwickeyman on October 21, 2024, 05:06:00 AM
I can say after a good amount of experience with a 143 gr eldx out of the 6.5 creedmoor, they perform excellent out of that cartridge. I’ve taken 11 deer and bear with that combo now from 50 to a little over 300 yards and have been nothing but impressed with zero issues. At this point in time after the results I have seen, I have nothing but confidence in this combo on deer and bear sized game at reasonable hunting distances.Same. We've killed 3 whitetail and 4 blacktail with the same bullet out of my 6.5 creed now. Closest was 43 yds, furthest was 570 yds. Not one went more than 15 yards from where they stood.
I have heard of guys using the same arrow/broadhead on multiple animals but never a bullet :dunno:
Sorry couldnt help myself
Post by: Rob on October 21, 2024, 06:27:38 AM
I can say after a good amount of experience with a 143 gr eldx out of the 6.5 creedmoor, they perform excellent out of that cartridge. I’ve taken 11 deer and bear with that combo now from 50 to a little over 300 yards and have been nothing but impressed with zero issues. At this point in time after the results I have seen, I have nothing but confidence in this combo on deer and bear sized game at reasonable hunting distances.Same. We've killed 3 whitetail and 4 blacktail with the same bullet out of my 6.5 creed now. Closest was 43 yds, furthest was 570 yds. Not one went more than 15 yards from where they stood.
I have heard of guys using the same arrow/broadhead on multiple animals but never a bullet :dunno:
Sorry couldnt help myself
There was a guy on the Accurate Reloading forum who pulled a fired solid, reloaded it and shot it again. Can't recall if he was shooting an animal or a newspaper pen test target he had set up though.
Post by: Buckjunkie on October 21, 2024, 06:32:02 AM
That said, I have one bad experience with an ELDX. 300 RUM with the 220g ELDX. Uphill shot on a Mule deer at 650. At the shot, the deer bucked, spun around and ran. There was a 2-3” red dot on the off side right where it should be. Four of us hiked up there to 10,000 elevation where the deer was. Looked for hours and found one spec of blood. A big snow storm moved in that night and the next day we caught a couple glimpses of the buck feeding in timber, but weren’t able to shoot him again. That bullet never expanded. Since then I have been told similar stories, but not with the 143 ELDX.
Post by: CamoDup on October 21, 2024, 08:45:11 AM
My all time favorite bullet is the 165 grain Nosler Ballistic tip which they no longer produce.
Going back to the lost bear. I have heard of MANY stories about people losing bears. Different bullets, calibers, grains.... they are a tough animal.
Post by: B4noon on October 21, 2024, 09:21:41 AM
First picture is the accubond exit hole on the far shoulder of my elk
Second picture is my wife’s deer explosion
As said on here how dead is dead I’m not a fan of some of the damage I’ve seen with the eldx but certainly not excited about how many rounds with accubond it took either
Post by: MeepDog on October 21, 2024, 10:12:17 AM
Post by: OutHouse on October 21, 2024, 10:19:11 AM
I am no expert but I think the bullet does a ton of damage right when it enters the body cavity. That is the value that I see in it because I don't know if either of the bullets referenced above expanded or not.
Post by: jrebel on October 21, 2024, 10:25:49 AM
So after a little debate I decided to switch it up this year having witnessed the explosive damage on animals in the past with the eldx they definitely kill have had 3 elk and multiple deer harvested most with 1 shot with them but upon reading this thread decided to switch to the 140gr accubond for my cow elk hunt this year. I was able to harvest my cow however she really took the accubond like a champ to the point I thought I was missing her. First shot was at 400yds and when I realized she was hit I started cutting the distance hitting her again in what should have been the sweet spot multiple times from 300 down to the last shot at 100 yds. In all I hit her 6 times 5 behind the front shoulder 1 in the shoulder blade all pass through leaving pin holes for exit wounds certainly not the results I was hoping for in the end she was dead but IMO with shot placement she should of tipped on the first shot. 2 days later I took my wife deer hunting switch back to the 143 eldx 1 shot low shoulder and hamburger total destruction however deer didn’t go 10 yds and done
First picture is the accubond exit hole on the far shoulder of my elk
Second picture is my wife’s deer explosion
As said on here how dead is dead I’m not a fan of some of the damage I’ve seen with the eldx but certainly not excited about how many rounds with accubond it took either
What caliber and weight bullet? Was this the accubond or accubond long range? This is definitely not the experience I have had with accubonds (not long range).
Currently, the two bullets we shoot and love are Accubonds and Hammer Hunters. Accubonds have killed many deer, elk, bear, moose in our family and have never penciled.....so this is weird to hear. We have captured many of the accubonds on the offside hide and the performance / weight retention has been phenomenal.
As I read this thread, it appears the 143 ELD-X in the 6.5 creed and PRC appear to work for most. It may be that the big 30 cal., heavies are just not built for the speed and kinetic energy they produce on impact. The ELD-X in the 143 / 6.5 may be the cat's meow.....Only shot them in 300 wm with super poor performance.
Post by: B4noon on October 21, 2024, 10:39:58 AM
6.5 creedmoor 140 gr nosler trophy grade accubond was on my elk which is all that I shoot out of my 30.06 with great results which made me think I should see similar results with the 6.5
Post by: jrebel on October 21, 2024, 10:44:33 AM
6.5 creedmoor 143 eldx was the deer and numerous elk in the past
6.5 creedmoor 140 gr nosler trophy grade accubond was on my elk which is all that I shoot out of my 30.06 with great results which made me think I should see similar results with the 6.5
Yeah, that is super weird. Prior to switching my 6.5's to mono's, we exclusively shot 140 gain accubonds with great success. Wonder if the newer production accubonds are different from the older production. We have a pile of the 140's but they were all bought more than 4 years ago.
Post by: B4noon on October 21, 2024, 11:07:55 AM
Post by: Mtnwalker on October 21, 2024, 11:39:05 AM
Post by: Buckjunkie on October 21, 2024, 01:51:32 PM
Not 6.5 but I quit loading 140 accubonds in my wife’s 270wsm 8 years ago because we were seeing barely caliber diameter expansion at impact velocities north of 2400fps
I believe there are bullet, velocity, spin rate combinations that just work and others…well they don’t. For instance, I and others have had terrible experiences with 300 RUM with 180 Accubonds, but the 200g Accubonds are magic. 7STW with 160 Accubonds or Partitions are lethal. Same rifle with a 140 Accubond going 3,500 FPS at the muzzle seems to blow everything up and require follow up shots. Slow the same bullet down to 3,100 FPs and it performs well. I believe spin rate has something to do with it, but of course impact velocity and bullet toughness are a priority.
Post by: addicted on October 22, 2024, 06:04:26 PM
40 yards. Looked like a good pass through. Normal entrance, 2" exit, took off the top pipe works of the heart. Didn't find any frags. He reared up and flopped.
Side note, There are also differences between bullet weights within a caliber to consider. Like the 284 ballistic tip for example, the 120 and 140 were known to have the same external dimensions so the jacket was just thicker on the 120 making it a stouter bullet than the 140. This could be a similar case for the hornady line.
Post by: dreadi on October 22, 2024, 11:35:18 PM
He dropped and didn't get up.
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Post by: hunter399 on October 23, 2024, 07:02:05 AM
They make the recovery process pretty easy,as long as you do your part with the rifle.
Post by: buglebuster on October 23, 2024, 07:16:55 AM
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Post by: duckmen1 on October 23, 2024, 07:43:20 AM
Great support toward Hornady for keeping components available for recreational users during tough times. Although my brother has found great success in the Hornady ELDX bullets. Among many others. I had tested the interlocks first with my 270 and found great accuracy and performance with game on said load. In the future I will try the ELDX bullets on that rifle too as I have every bit of confidence in that bullet for deer and bears from the countless success I have seen on game through a 6.5 Creedmoore and ELDX bullets. Great bullets for the 6.5 Creedmoore and its capabilities.
Post by: mountainman on October 23, 2024, 10:22:59 AM
Wish I could figure out how to load the video..
Post by: The Big Game Hunter on December 15, 2024, 03:45:54 PM
I’m really liking the 147 ELDM out of our 6.5 PRC. Have killed animals from 60 yards to 500 on an elk. All have barely went 20, or dropped on the spot. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241023/570b829a08b1d099482830106809f472.jpg)That's awesome! How fast were those 147s going from your 6.5 PRC? Have you recovered any of those bullets?
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Post by: buglebuster on December 15, 2024, 04:58:29 PM
I’ve got 2822 in my app and verified everything to 900 yards. That’s the farthest I’ve shot it. We have recovered a few, mostly shredded mess. Just what I like to see. Here is a pic of 3 recovered on the spike elk from 500 yards. He was dead as could he first shot, but was on his feet so I shot till he was down because of the eastern WA war zone spike hunting isI’m really liking the 147 ELDM out of our 6.5 PRC. Have killed animals from 60 yards to 500 on an elk. All have barely went 20, or dropped on the spot. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241023/570b829a08b1d099482830106809f472.jpg)That's awesome! How fast were those 147s going from your 6.5 PRC? Have you recovered any of those bullets?
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Post by: The Big Game Hunter on December 16, 2024, 05:13:50 PM
Post by: buglebuster on December 16, 2024, 05:36:37 PM
Thanks! Very interesting.
Forgot to mention. All 3 were lodged in skin on off side.
Post by: bigdub257 on December 16, 2024, 06:51:30 PM
Post by: hunter399 on December 16, 2024, 06:54:53 PM
Definitely a eld fanboy myself.Thanks! Very interesting.
Forgot to mention. All 3 were lodged in skin on off side.
After your rifle is dialed in,they just shoot and kill.
Post by: mountainman on December 17, 2024, 09:28:19 AM
Post by: HereDuckyDucky on December 17, 2024, 10:42:54 AM
In Alaska, I coach my guys to take shoulder shots with heavy-for-caliber bullets to anchor the bear on the beach (and thus not allowing them to run into the timber). On my last trip in 2017, one of my hunters shot a large bear at approximately 150 yards. The shot hit squarely on the bear's shoulder, which resulted in the bear going down immediately, spinning many circles, then getting up and taking off while biting at the wound the entire way. The bear was up and into the woods before the hunter could follow up. We spent 1.5 days on our hands and knees tracking that bear before it left us in the dust.
Later on, I had a hunter shoot another bear from about the same distance. I wrote off the earlier bear as an anomaly and had this hunter take a similar shot--directly into the shoulder. This bear absorbed the shot and immediately took off running down the beach. Thankfully the hunter was able to place two more shots into the bear's vitals, which eventually did the trick. Upon inspection, we discovered that the first shot DID NOT penetrate the shoulder blade. The two follow-up shots were directly into the lungs and did just fine.
Following that trip, I no longer use ELD-X bullets for bears, mostly because of what I need my bullets to do on bears: blow through the shoulder. I still use that load for deer, and my wife uses the 143 ELD-X in her 6.5 on deer as well. They are incredibly accurate bullets and seem to serve that purpose well.
RW
Post by: fowl smacker on December 17, 2024, 12:27:55 PM
I don't know about "exploding," but my experience with the 178 ELD-X in the .308 Win. on bears has steered me away from them towards either monos (TTSX) or bonded (Accubond).Sounds like they serve their purpose well on bears as well if hit in the vitals! :dunno:
In Alaska, I coach my guys to take shoulder shots with heavy-for-caliber bullets to anchor the bear on the beach (and thus not allowing them to run into the timber). On my last trip in 2017, one of my hunters shot a large bear at approximately 150 yards. The shot hit squarely on the bear's shoulder, which resulted in the bear going down immediately, spinning many circles, then getting up and taking off while biting at the wound the entire way. The bear was up and into the woods before the hunter could follow up. We spent 1.5 days on our hands and knees tracking that bear before it left us in the dust.
Later on, I had a hunter shoot another bear from about the same distance. I wrote off the earlier bear as an anomaly and had this hunter take a similar shot--directly into the shoulder. This bear absorbed the shot and immediately took off running down the beach. Thankfully the hunter was able to place two more shots into the bear's vitals, which eventually did the trick. Upon inspection, we discovered that the first shot DID NOT penetrate the shoulder blade. The two follow-up shots were directly into the lungs and did just fine.
Following that trip, I no longer use ELD-X bullets for bears, mostly because of what I need my bullets to do on bears: blow through the shoulder. I still use that load for deer, and my wife uses the 143 ELD-X in her 6.5 on deer as well. They are incredibly accurate bullets and seem to serve that purpose well.
RW
Post by: The Big Game Hunter on December 17, 2024, 01:37:27 PM
I don't know about "exploding," but my experience with the 178 ELD-X in the .308 Win. on bears has steered me away from them towards either monos (TTSX) or bonded (Accubond).This is very interesting. I just sent you a PM
In Alaska, I coach my guys to take shoulder shots with heavy-for-caliber bullets to anchor the bear on the beach (and thus not allowing them to run into the timber). On my last trip in 2017, one of my hunters shot a large bear at approximately 150 yards. The shot hit squarely on the bear's shoulder, which resulted in the bear going down immediately, spinning many circles, then getting up and taking off while biting at the wound the entire way. The bear was up and into the woods before the hunter could follow up. We spent 1.5 days on our hands and knees tracking that bear before it left us in the dust.
Later on, I had a hunter shoot another bear from about the same distance. I wrote off the earlier bear as an anomaly and had this hunter take a similar shot--directly into the shoulder. This bear absorbed the shot and immediately took off running down the beach. Thankfully the hunter was able to place two more shots into the bear's vitals, which eventually did the trick. Upon inspection, we discovered that the first shot DID NOT penetrate the shoulder blade. The two follow-up shots were directly into the lungs and did just fine.
Following that trip, I no longer use ELD-X bullets for bears, mostly because of what I need my bullets to do on bears: blow through the shoulder. I still use that load for deer, and my wife uses the 143 ELD-X in her 6.5 on deer as well. They are incredibly accurate bullets and seem to serve that purpose well.
RW
Post by: Rick on December 17, 2024, 03:25:50 PM
My daughter’s spike bull 2 years ago was killed with a 143gr eld-x out of her 6.5 PRC. Broke both shoulders at 220 yds. Yes I intentionally told her to aim for the shoulder to hopefully stop the bull from running downhill into a nasty canyon full of blow down.
The eld-x performed perfectly. The bull stumbled about 10yds and fell over dead.
I used my daughters rifle on this fall’s cow elk. One shot at 80 yards and she dropped in her tracks. Sample size of two but the eld-x from her 6.5 PRC has been perfect so far
Post by: HereDuckyDucky on December 17, 2024, 04:15:55 PM
I don't know about "exploding," but my experience with the 178 ELD-X in the .308 Win. on bears has steered me away from them towards either monos (TTSX) or bonded (Accubond).Sounds like they serve their purpose well on bears as well if hit in the vitals! :dunno:
In Alaska, I coach my guys to take shoulder shots with heavy-for-caliber bullets to anchor the bear on the beach (and thus not allowing them to run into the timber). On my last trip in 2017, one of my hunters shot a large bear at approximately 150 yards. The shot hit squarely on the bear's shoulder, which resulted in the bear going down immediately, spinning many circles, then getting up and taking off while biting at the wound the entire way. The bear was up and into the woods before the hunter could follow up. We spent 1.5 days on our hands and knees tracking that bear before it left us in the dust.
Later on, I had a hunter shoot another bear from about the same distance. I wrote off the earlier bear as an anomaly and had this hunter take a similar shot--directly into the shoulder. This bear absorbed the shot and immediately took off running down the beach. Thankfully the hunter was able to place two more shots into the bear's vitals, which eventually did the trick. Upon inspection, we discovered that the first shot DID NOT penetrate the shoulder blade. The two follow-up shots were directly into the lungs and did just fine.
Following that trip, I no longer use ELD-X bullets for bears, mostly because of what I need my bullets to do on bears: blow through the shoulder. I still use that load for deer, and my wife uses the 143 ELD-X in her 6.5 on deer as well. They are incredibly accurate bullets and seem to serve that purpose well.
RW
The problem is I need them to drop the bear in its tracks and not allow it to run, but you are correct that they seem to work perfectly well for shots in the vitals if running into the woods isn't a concern.
RW
Post by: jrebel on December 17, 2024, 05:54:46 PM
I don't know about "exploding," but my experience with the 178 ELD-X in the .308 Win. on bears has steered me away from them towards either monos (TTSX) or bonded (Accubond).Sounds like they serve their purpose well on bears as well if hit in the vitals! :dunno:
In Alaska, I coach my guys to take shoulder shots with heavy-for-caliber bullets to anchor the bear on the beach (and thus not allowing them to run into the timber). On my last trip in 2017, one of my hunters shot a large bear at approximately 150 yards. The shot hit squarely on the bear's shoulder, which resulted in the bear going down immediately, spinning many circles, then getting up and taking off while biting at the wound the entire way. The bear was up and into the woods before the hunter could follow up. We spent 1.5 days on our hands and knees tracking that bear before it left us in the dust.
Later on, I had a hunter shoot another bear from about the same distance. I wrote off the earlier bear as an anomaly and had this hunter take a similar shot--directly into the shoulder. This bear absorbed the shot and immediately took off running down the beach. Thankfully the hunter was able to place two more shots into the bear's vitals, which eventually did the trick. Upon inspection, we discovered that the first shot DID NOT penetrate the shoulder blade. The two follow-up shots were directly into the lungs and did just fine.
Following that trip, I no longer use ELD-X bullets for bears, mostly because of what I need my bullets to do on bears: blow through the shoulder. I still use that load for deer, and my wife uses the 143 ELD-X in her 6.5 on deer as well. They are incredibly accurate bullets and seem to serve that purpose well.
RW
The problem is I need them to drop the bear in its tracks and not allow it to run, but you are correct that they seem to work perfectly well for shots in the vitals if running into the woods isn't a concern.
RW
The worst bullets ever produced....will kill an animal if it is put in the vitals. The best bullets ever produced......will kill with less than ideal shots. I am with HereDuckyDucky on this one.....a well placed shoulder shot should kill a bear.
I keep seeing people post bullet fragments from their ELD-X experience and say they worked perfect.....I would say if a bullet that has an interlock ring is separating (jacket from core), then it is not working as it should. Yes.....double lunged and the animal dies, that's great....but doesn't mean the bullet performed optimally. I want the shank of the bullet to remain intact and drive through the animal, breaking bone in the process. Mono's do this really well. Bonded bullets also do this really well.
To each their own.....but I want a bullet that will work even if I make a non-perfect / non-optimal shot....knowing that is never the objective, but sometimes the reality.
Post by: duckmen1 on January 03, 2025, 10:44:00 AM
Post by: hunter399 on January 03, 2025, 10:55:02 AM
Many bullets are built differently for different results. From my experience bonded bullets and all copper bullets you have more forgiving angles on deep penetration but animals seem to travel a ways after a shot for recovery. Sometimes with low blood trail for a while before they start pumping it out externally from the animal. But overall work well. ELDX bullets I have always seen animals drop in their tracks, or drop within about 20 yards. No issues. Yes they do loose weight retention but it causes large internal shock causing bears and deer to drop quickly. Even some experience of the same on elk. They are more less a cup core bullet with a canular grip ring. Anyone expecting the same terminal performance out of an EldX bullet as a copper bullet needs to relook at the construction of bullets. Also those who try to push ELDX bullets at extreme speeds with hand loads. I don’t believe personally any bullet with such design should be done so in that manner. It is just like sierra gamekings. A standard cup core bullet that I am getting complete pass throughs on both shoulders of elk multiple times. Elk dropping very fast. But I have the cup core bullets only going 2800 fps with a 165 grain bullet. Another example which has had a hate relationship is Berger bullets. The all copper guys say Bergers are trash because they explode and don’t hold weight retention. Well that is kind of the design of the bullet. And all animals we have harvested have had extreme trauma dropping the animals very fast. Everyone wants deep penetration and that is fine. Not complaining with garenteed penetration but there are other factors of trauma that help with trauma with a shot that help put an animal down quickly. Understanding the bullets is step one, their capabilities within speeds and load data for optimal performance. But the biggest lies on the hunter doing his part and making a well placed shot and not thinking he can take sub par shots. Shocker and openly honest about this. The one bear I ever lost was with a 300wsm and Nosler Partition bullets. Must be the bullets and the caliber. Could never have been on my end with shot placement. Or so everyone says. A bullet with such high reputation and to be clear I do like. Then there are sierra gameking bullets, Hornady interlocks, Bergers, etc that are all general cup core bullets in which we have had countless success and never any let downs in loosing any animal. But they are not all the new designs out there so they must not be any good. Anyways it all comes down to perspective and what works for you.I agree :yeah:
2800-2900 fps does seem like the ELDX sweet spot.
I definitely don't go into the 3000 fps.
If your planning a long range shots ,you might push it over 3000.
Post by: mountainman on January 03, 2025, 07:39:49 PM
450 yards