Post by: BlackRiverTaxidermy on August 30, 2024, 06:48:24 PM
This is so much ridiculousness and if any biologist or cat specialist is reading this, please let me know the reason behind this absurd requirement. Bobcats are at NO risk for species decline or listing; furthermore, why in the flying-fornication can't the same information be obtained via a tooth sample just as we do with bear and cougar. You are now asking a successful hunter/trapper to remove the jaw of the cat whose European skull is a prized possession in remembrance of the hunt and memory. Furthermore, removal of the lower jaw, unless you have done this quite a few times, is tough and requires more time for the hunter to take the cat to a taxidermist if had plans for a rug, mount, etc. The jaw must be removed, given time to dry, THEN submit to WDFW before a seal is applied, THEN the hunter can take it back to the taxidermist in order to have mount work/tanning completed. Let's make this process even more hard for the very people that supply you (WDFW) with the funds to do your 'studies' while inconveniencing and taking half the skull? What kind of nonsense is this?
Sorry....having a moment. I'm pretty levelheaded but this new rule is absolute garbage and has no value to an animal that is at risk...
**off soap box***
Post by: Cougartail on August 30, 2024, 06:51:25 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 30, 2024, 06:53:17 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on August 30, 2024, 07:03:59 PM
Because the wdfw game commission is doing their best to make it as difficult as possible for the sportspeople of Washington state. If they make the rules difficult to adhere to, they are hoping people will just give up.
Or make us all criminals...
Post by: MADMAX on August 30, 2024, 07:29:22 PM
What a bunch of maroons
Post by: BigCutty3 on August 30, 2024, 07:55:49 PM
Post by: MADMAX on August 30, 2024, 08:01:48 PM
Hooooowoooolllllll
Post by: Cougartail on August 30, 2024, 08:16:29 PM
Because the wdfw game commission is doing their best to make it as difficult as possible for the sportspeople of Washington state. If they make the rules difficult to adhere to, they are hoping people will just give up.
:yeah: that's what 24 hour checks are all about.
Post by: lewy on August 30, 2024, 09:54:09 PM
Post by: HillHound on August 30, 2024, 10:44:11 PM
Post by: jrebel on August 30, 2024, 11:33:25 PM
Post by: Cylvertip on August 31, 2024, 08:14:45 AM
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 31, 2024, 08:25:30 AM
What would be the penalty if you don’t? Sounds like they will not seal your pelt….but beyond that, is there a stated penalty?
They sealed pelt is a Cities requirement, which I believe is a Federal ordinance.
They also state to not put it in a plastic bag!! Just bag it let it ferment a bit then present it to the regional office for verification.
Post by: slm9s on August 31, 2024, 08:59:52 AM
Post by: Huckleberry on August 31, 2024, 09:31:51 AM
Nobody is thrilled about having their boat checked for invasive species or the new and burdensome CWD rules but hopefully we all get how big of impacts failures to comply can have. If the hunters/fishers/trappers can not work together and put in some extra effort towards working with the WDFW then perhaps we shouldn't be harvesting or transporting game. It is not a right and never has been. This is simply a fact that must be accepted. Play nice, pull the bad apples out of the bin, and move forward with life. I don't need a bunch of bobcat jaws and I bet most of you don't either. My antler pile already finds itself hanging from barn rafters.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on August 31, 2024, 09:51:32 AM
I drop off grouse wings at the bin whenever possible. I have a large stack of envelopes for mailing duck/goose wings to the feds. My fish are checked at the dock regularly. Selfishly it is always sad to see a fin cut on my lingcod or a salmon head get hacked apart but I also understand that there are good people spending their life trying to find solutions to complex problems. As the world grows we must somehow incorporate science and data into game management. You can be involved, make some efforts to help, or sit on the side lines criticizing these decisions.
Nobody is thrilled about having their boat checked for invasive species or the new and burdensome CWD rules but hopefully we all get how big of impacts failures to comply can have. If the hunters/fishers/trappers can not work together and put in some extra effort towards working with the WDFW then perhaps we shouldn't be harvesting or transporting game. It is not a right and never has been. This is simply a fact that must be accepted. Play nice, pull the bad apples out of the bin, and move forward with life. I don't need a bunch of bobcat jaws and I bet most of you don't either. My antler pile already finds itself hanging from barn rafters.
Maybe when the Commission starts using actual science....
Post by: HillHound on August 31, 2024, 01:12:40 PM
I drop off grouse wings at the bin whenever possible. I have a large stack of envelopes for mailing duck/goose wings to the feds. My fish are checked at the dock regularly. Selfishly it is always sad to see a fin cut on my lingcod or a salmon head get hacked apart but I also understand that there are good people spending their life trying to find solutions to complex problems. As the world grows we must somehow incorporate science and data into game management. You can be involved, make some efforts to help, or sit on the side lines criticizing these decisions.Sounds great, but they are completely against us and do not go with the science so tell me again why we should help them collect it? And nobody has yet answered. What information can they get from this lower jaw that they cannot get from the tooth? If Someone can tell me what extra info can be gleaned from this it might be easier to comply because I do not believe there is any benefit to taking the whole jaw from us other than to devalue our trophy
Nobody is thrilled about having their boat checked for invasive species or the new and burdensome CWD rules but hopefully we all get how big of impacts failures to comply can have. If the hunters/fishers/trappers can not work together and put in some extra effort towards working with the WDFW then perhaps we shouldn't be harvesting or transporting game. It is not a right and never has been. This is simply a fact that must be accepted. Play nice, pull the bad apples out of the bin, and move forward with life. I don't need a bunch of bobcat jaws and I bet most of you don't either. My antler pile already finds itself hanging from barn rafters.
Post by: Platensek-po on August 31, 2024, 02:58:24 PM
I drop off grouse wings at the bin whenever possible. I have a large stack of envelopes for mailing duck/goose wings to the feds. My fish are checked at the dock regularly. Selfishly it is always sad to see a fin cut on my lingcod or a salmon head get hacked apart but I also understand that there are good people spending their life trying to find solutions to complex problems. As the world grows we must somehow incorporate science and data into game management. You can be involved, make some efforts to help, or sit on the side lines criticizing these decisions.Sounds great, but they are completely against us and do not go with the science so tell me again why we should help them collect it? And nobody has yet answered. What information can they get from this lower jaw that they cannot get from the tooth? If Someone can tell me what extra info can be gleaned from this it might be easier to comply because I do not believe there is any benefit to taking the whole jaw from us other than to devalue our trophy
Nobody is thrilled about having their boat checked for invasive species or the new and burdensome CWD rules but hopefully we all get how big of impacts failures to comply can have. If the hunters/fishers/trappers can not work together and put in some extra effort towards working with the WDFW then perhaps we shouldn't be harvesting or transporting game. It is not a right and never has been. This is simply a fact that must be accepted. Play nice, pull the bad apples out of the bin, and move forward with life. I don't need a bunch of bobcat jaws and I bet most of you don't either. My antler pile already finds itself hanging from barn rafters.
Part of me gets what you are saying with the non compliance. Another part of me says that as sportsmen we have to show we are better than the commission. Even if it doesn’t work we have to continue to show our support for the bios and for the science being collected. Otherwise we get to be painted as the bad guys who are just innit for the trophies. Can’t stoop to their level. I’m not sure why they would want the whole jaw but I can speculate it might provide better information about size of the animal, overall health and development during its lifespan and possibly if it had been sick at some point. Probably a good question for the bios at wdfw. Again I understand the frustration and sometimes feel the same way you do about this commission and its rules but still have to strive to be the better more responsible party in this fight.
Post by: Not selected on August 31, 2024, 03:12:51 PM
I drop off grouse wings at the bin whenever possible. I have a large stack of envelopes for mailing duck/goose wings to the feds. My fish are checked at the dock regularly. Selfishly it is always sad to see a fin cut on my lingcod or a salmon head get hacked apart but I also understand that there are good people spending their life trying to find solutions to complex problems. As the world grows we must somehow incorporate science and data into game management. You can be involved, make some efforts to help, or sit on the side lines criticizing these decisions.
Nobody is thrilled about having their boat checked for invasive species or the new and burdensome CWD rules but hopefully we all get how big of impacts failures to comply can have. If the hunters/fishers/trappers can not work together and put in some extra effort towards working with the WDFW then perhaps we shouldn't be harvesting or transporting game. It is not a right and never has been. This is simply a fact that must be accepted. Play nice, pull the bad apples out of the bin, and move forward with life. I don't need a bunch of bobcat jaws and I bet most of you don't either. My antler pile already finds itself hanging from barn rafters.
Well, that’s enough internet for me today. Bet some of you think you’re still helping out by wearing a mask. Unreal.
Post by: BlackRiverTaxidermy on August 31, 2024, 06:17:33 PM
I drop off grouse wings at the bin whenever possible. I have a large stack of envelopes for mailing duck/goose wings to the feds. My fish are checked at the dock regularly. Selfishly it is always sad to see a fin cut on my lingcod or a salmon head get hacked apart but I also understand that there are good people spending their life trying to find solutions to complex problems. As the world grows we must somehow incorporate science and data into game management. You can be involved, make some efforts to help, or sit on the side lines criticizing these decisions.
Nobody is thrilled about having their boat checked for invasive species or the new and burdensome CWD rules but hopefully we all get how big of impacts failures to comply can have. If the hunters/fishers/trappers can not work together and put in some extra effort towards working with the WDFW then perhaps we shouldn't be harvesting or transporting game. It is not a right and never has been. This is simply a fact that must be accepted. Play nice, pull the bad apples out of the bin, and move forward with life. I don't need a bunch of bobcat jaws and I bet most of you don't either. My antler pile already finds itself hanging from barn rafters.
I hear what you’re saying Huckleberry but don’t agree with it, and I will tell you why…..I also take a little offense to your comment about criticizing decisions without getting involved as I have been VERY involved with the WDFW fish and game meetings attendance, and being one of the founding members of the Conservation Coalition of Washington which has been active in fighting this anti-hunting and rules that go along with this narrative, such as this one. I’m not the only one that is very involved either, so I would think about making those assumptions in your post. This whole thing another tactic to make more leg work for hunters and or taking away parts of their harvest such as a FULL bobcat euro…I’m sorry you have lots of bobcat jaws laying around….
In regard to what you said, your examples, most of which are INSPECTIONS (not taking something away from your catch) that are not always mandatory but something your arbitrarily volunteered. Fish nipping on your salmon or lingcod are horrible analogies to the removal of a lower jaw of a hunters bobcat skull.
I would agree with you about ‘science based decisions’ only IF our own commission would actually go with science. The pick and choose what they decide is THEIR science and when it doesn’t meet up with ‘Big 4’ ( the hardcore 4 anti hunting commissioners) then make something up or request another study that wastes time/money or is used as an excuses to close a season on species that are thriving (loss of spring bear)….I've been in the very room when they spout this bs and it’s all recorded if you’d like to take a look.
Again…the bobcat is thriving in every state it is a native to and at NO chance of species decline so why the extremes new measure when a tooth suffices just like it does for bear and cougar. Crap man, I would even give up one of the cats canines for a study….but this whole lower jaw is ridiculous, unwarranted, and yet another extra steps for a ‘study’ to a species that is thriving. You get your fish inspected, you drop off a wing, you have your boat inspected at checkpoint…all in a single step. NOW the bobcat hunter harvests a cat, takes it to a taxidermist to remove the lower jaw in a delicate fashion to retain the hide for mounting or fur preservations, leaves the taxidermist to dry the cat jaw, takes it into WDFW several days later to present the jaw AND NOW gets the cat sealed, THEN has to take the cat back to the taxidermist because he can’t leave the cat at the taxi until there is a seal in accordance with law. I also find this new rule ironically introduced at the door step of many states trying to outlaw bobcat hunting such as Colorado. Coincidence?
So you tell me how this is not inconveniencing the hunter and is ‘science’ without the appearance of just making it harder on a successful hunter on one of these cats?
Post by: lewy on August 31, 2024, 09:32:09 PM
Post by: KNOPHISH on August 31, 2024, 09:43:36 PM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on September 01, 2024, 06:25:38 AM
All the commission does with science is ignore it and push their agenda
I wish they just ignored it. They do much worse and cherry pick the data that fits their agenda. When they cant even find a cherry in all the fiction, they resort to straight up lying.
Post by: Huckleberry on September 01, 2024, 09:56:20 AM
My previous experience with sealing has been a phone call and set up a meeting time/location. The department staff has been fun, engaged, and always left me feeling like it was not a total waste of time. I have only had to drive to the office a handful of times. We know the rules before the season starts so if they are a deal breaker do not participate. Pulling a jaw off the skinned animal is not difficult nor is leaving it out to dry. I hope most hunters are capable.
Bobcat are traditionally a “by chance” species. Jumping some hoops every now and then for a unique animal is not the end of the world or a reason not to shoot. I don't know the number of trappers who retain the full skull so I won't speak on that. I imagine it's reserved to those especially big cats. Again, perhaps ask for it back?
As for science, what is used or ignored, that has always been tricky but having a data set is never a bad thing. Why not use the available resources (hunters) to gather it. I'm game because I believe there is light at the end of the tunnel and without working together we won't make it there. I also like doing the leg work and extra engagement adds to the process.
I stand behind the WDFW. Both of my draw tags this year have undergone significant recent changes. These changes are for the better and due to hunters expressing concerns. I now stand to benefit.
There are a lot of folks that won't like my stance on spring bear or the changes to grouse season. I am OK with that as we are all entitled to our opinions. My comments to the commission were submitted in a thoughtful and educated fashion. A sacrifice in opportunity or personal time/property (in this case) is occasionally necessary. I am a conservationist for the resource and the heritage. The laws, and changes within, are quite simply are the only compliance tool available.
Post by: grousetracker on September 01, 2024, 10:11:26 AM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on September 01, 2024, 11:04:43 AM
With out a doubt there will be a small subset of individuals impacted to a point of a PITA - those industry folks working to make a living off wild game and dealing with large numbers of bobcat and the occasional recreationalist who wants more than a hide. For those who want a euro mount perhaps ask for it back?
My previous experience with sealing has been a phone call and set up a meeting time/location. The department staff has been fun, engaged, and always left me feeling like it was not a total waste of time. I have only had to drive to the office a handful of times. We know the rules before the season starts so if they are a deal breaker do not participate. Pulling a jaw off the skinned animal is not difficult nor is leaving it out to dry. I hope most hunters are capable.
Bobcat are traditionally a “by chance” species. Jumping some hoops every now and then for a unique animal is not the end of the world or a reason not to shoot. I don't know the number of trappers who retain the full skull so I won't speak on that. I imagine it's reserved to those especially big cats. Again, perhaps ask for it back?
As for science, what is used or ignored, that has always been tricky but having a data set is never a bad thing. Why not use the available resources (hunters) to gather it. I'm game because I believe there is light at the end of the tunnel and without working together we won't make it there. I also like doing the leg work and extra engagement adds to the process.
I stand behind the WDFW. Both of my draw tags this year have undergone significant recent changes. These changes are for the better and due to hunters expressing concerns. I now stand to benefit.
There are a lot of folks that won't like my stance on spring bear or the changes to grouse season. I am OK with that as we are all entitled to our opinions. My comments to the commission were submitted in a thoughtful and educated fashion. A sacrifice in opportunity or personal time/property (in this case) is occasionally necessary. I am a conservationist for the resource and the heritage. The laws, and changes within, are quite simply are the only compliance tool available.
Real question, what is this new "data set" you are talking about?
Please explain what new and important data this will supply above & beyond that a single tooth cannot.
Post by: Huckleberry on September 01, 2024, 11:32:16 AM
da·ta
noun
facts and statistics collected together for reference or analysis.
There is a lot of information available online for those actually interested in why they added this new law. Washington is behind other states in asking for the whole jaw. I do not see a reason why a monetary reimbursement aka “bounty” should be used (Idaho?). Age, sex, size, duplicate measurements, etc. knowledge is power and asking for volunteers only yields a small subset of the available samples.
Post by: Skillet on September 01, 2024, 01:22:29 PM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/newsroom/news-release/new-bobcat-jaw-submission-requirements-effective-sept-1 (https://wdfw.wa.gov/newsroom/news-release/new-bobcat-jaw-submission-requirements-effective-sept-1)
“WDFW will now collect the lower jaw from bobcats harvested in Washington so we can use the canine teeth to determine the age structure of harvested bobcats and track changes over time,” said Stephanie Landry, WDFW carnivore, furbearer, and small game section manager. “Bobcat canine teeth cannot be removed as easily as the teeth of other species, which is why the bobcat’s entire lower jaw must be submitted.”
This is just an imposition placed up on hunters and trappers, a taking of value, with no additional benefit.
Good luck getting your destroyed bobcat jaw back if you ask for it...
Post by: JakeLand on September 01, 2024, 01:45:46 PM
I drop off grouse wings at the bin whenever possible. I have a large stack of envelopes for mailing duck/goose wings to the feds. My fish are checked at the dock regularly. Selfishly it is always sad to see a fin cut on my lingcod or a salmon head get hacked apart but I also understand that there are good people spending their life trying to find solutions to complex problems. As the world grows we must somehow incorporate science and data into game management. You can be involved, make some efforts to help, or sit on the side lines criticizing these decisions.you have officially drank their coolaid that bobcat skull is money out of my pocket I trap cats and that’s part of what I sell and without the lower jaw it is worthless period oh ya and the same rule applies for cougar too
Nobody is thrilled about having their boat checked for invasive species or the new and burdensome CWD rules but hopefully we all get how big of impacts failures to comply can have. If the hunters/fishers/trappers can not work together and put in some extra effort towards working with the WDFW then perhaps we shouldn't be harvesting or transporting game. It is not a right and never has been. This is simply a fact that must be accepted. Play nice, pull the bad apples out of the bin, and move forward with life. I don't need a bunch of bobcat jaws and I bet most of you don't either. My antler pile already finds itself hanging from barn rafters.
This game dept is as corrupt as the democrat party
Post by: fishngamereaper on September 01, 2024, 01:50:32 PM
DFW distances itself from any semblance of reasonable management every chance they get..
If people can't see that then...well I don't know..
It's no wonder very few people trust them anymore..
Post by: shotguunar on September 01, 2024, 03:02:15 PM
Post by: MADMAX on September 01, 2024, 04:48:37 PM
Post by: LHaub on September 14, 2024, 11:36:29 AM