Post by: bigtex on October 23, 2024, 03:25:05 PM
So "snagging" is taking fish where the fish didn't voluntarily take the lure. But yet you can possess a fish that was hooked on the head forward of the gill plate? Makes sense!
In order to "floss" you need a long leader, sometimes in excess of 6 or 10 feet. Oregon instituted a 3-foot leader restriction a decade ago, other states have similar restrictions. Some fishing groups are talking about submitting a rule change proposal instituting a 3-foot leader restriction while fishing in rivers where there is an open salmon season.
Your opinion?
Post by: HntnFsh on October 23, 2024, 03:29:02 PM
Post by: CP on October 23, 2024, 03:43:24 PM
:tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown:
Post by: HUNTIN4SIX on October 23, 2024, 03:44:40 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on October 23, 2024, 03:49:53 PM
Didn't they try this in 2013 ish? And the data didn't support it.
I always loved casting my 6-8' leader with single point hook on the skok back in the day and watching the kids across the river casting a bundle of treble hooks into the same pool... :chuckle:
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on October 23, 2024, 04:26:01 PM
There’s so many restrictions as it is, I can’t see this making much of a difference.😉
Post by: fireweed on October 23, 2024, 04:36:26 PM
Post by: scotsman on October 23, 2024, 04:41:50 PM
Post by: SuperX on October 23, 2024, 04:43:00 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on October 23, 2024, 07:10:06 PM
Post by: Special T on October 24, 2024, 12:41:13 PM
I talked to a game warden that works the Samish river run. he has told me he has yet to write a fishing infraction because he cant get farther that 300yards from the bridge before he finds some one with a warrant.
Would this change really help, or is it just a feel good measure?
:dunno:
Post by: HikerHunter on October 24, 2024, 12:59:57 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 24, 2024, 02:16:15 PM
Post by: Dhoey07 on October 24, 2024, 02:30:00 PM
Just let them think they are good fishermen, or that it's required because salmon won't bite in rivers and just go on with your day.....
Post by: WSU on October 24, 2024, 02:32:44 PM
That said, places were flossing is effective are places with a whole lot of fish stacked up. Often those are hatchery fish created for us to harvest. I don't see why we should let the rest of the fishers (commercial and tribal) fish with nets and more effective gear and then limit our ability to harvest our share. In reality, we should get rid of bag limits in those situations and do everything possible to harvest all the hatchery fish we can. Taking away flossing would be counterproductive.
Post by: ducks4days on October 24, 2024, 02:35:36 PM
I dislike flossing and flossers. It some cases, like the Skok, it can take biters and turn them into worse biters because they are constantly being harassed. I avoid fishing in those types of situations.
That said, places were flossing is effective are places with a whole lot of fish stacked up. Often those are hatchery fish created for us to harvest. I don't see why we should let the rest of the fishers (commercial and tribal) fish with nets and more effective gear and then limit our ability to harvest our share. In reality, we should get rid of bag limits in those situations and do everything possible to harvest all the hatchery fish we can. Taking away flossing would be counterproductive.
Numerous lawsuits have decided that the purpose of the hatcheries is to preserve SRKWs and treaty fishing rights. They should be, but those fish arent for recreational anglers.
Post by: fishngamereaper on October 25, 2024, 06:23:32 PM
Come on DFW...get it together
Post by: bigtex on October 25, 2024, 07:34:45 PM
Sounds like it's already illegal... :chuckle:Like I said, flossing is illegal but its difficult to prove. That's why Oregon and others instituted a leader length restriction.
Come on DFW...get it together
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Post by: jackelope on October 25, 2024, 07:45:21 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on October 25, 2024, 08:22:50 PM
Sounds like it's already illegal... :chuckle:Like I said, flossing is illegal but its difficult to prove. That's why Oregon and others instituted a leader length restriction.
Come on DFW...get it together
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Well unless you guys can interview the fish....But..
Ya based on the way WA laws are written...it seems impossible to prove.
Who's pushing the proposed rule... BIOS or Enforcement?
Post by: Tbar on October 25, 2024, 09:51:18 PM
Sounds like it's already illegal... :chuckle:This is purely a policy call. Samish is talking about cutting production because of the difficulty disposing of the biomass. He references ethics and resource which is wrong on at least two of the terminal areas he mentioned. Terminal areas where they exceed take, surplus and escapement. So ethical methods can be very broad unless there is a purist mentality.
Come on DFW...get it together
Post by: WSU on October 25, 2024, 10:20:42 PM
Sounds like it's already illegal... :chuckle:This is purely a policy call. Samish is talking about cutting production because of the difficulty disposing of the biomass. He references ethics and resource which is wrong on at least two of the terminal areas he mentioned. Terminal areas where they exceed take, surplus and escapement. So ethical methods can be very broad unless there is a purist mentality.
Come on DFW...get it together
Amen.
Post by: Rob Allen on October 26, 2024, 06:34:37 AM
regulations.. " the fish must voluntarily take the hooks into it's mouth" everything else is snagging. hmm yeah maybe not provable in court but you know you're doing it and you should feel guilt and shame over it and stop doing it or not be offended when someone calls you a poacher you cannot have it both ways.
Below the hatchery on the Satsop yeah you're a snagger
Oak Park on the Washougal yeah you're a snagger
hatchery hole on the North Lewis snaggers
the lower fly water on the Kalama, yeah you've got a fly rod but you're still a snagger
how about you just leave the corkies at home, buy some bobbers, buy some eggs or throw some spinners and just do things right
snaggers are NOT recreational anglers... they are poachers, no different than shooting an elk out of season
Post by: HntnFsh on October 26, 2024, 06:45:39 AM
Is this actually in the regs?
Dont they say something about must be hooked in the head?
If so seems like conflicting info.
I havent looked and dont have a set of regs in front of me.
There are several fisheries that I feel flossing should be fine. Cowlitz system coho for example.
Post by: freshgrease on October 26, 2024, 08:04:30 AM
Give wardens more leeway and their voice more weight in court.. they say you were snagging YOU WERE SNAGGING. hell if your "Drift fishing" with just a corkie for fall salmon no question about it you are snagging if there is a pool full of you all fishing corkies, you're all snaggers.. yeah you've been doing it your whole life and you don't think of yourself as a poacher but you are. if you have to hook a number of fish to get one " in the mouth" you are a poacher.
regulations.. " the fish must voluntarily take the hooks into it's mouth" everything else is snagging. hmm yeah maybe not provable in court but you know you're doing it and you should feel guilt and shame over it and stop doing it or not be offended when someone calls you a poacher you cannot have it both ways.
Below the hatchery on the Satsop yeah you're a snagger
Oak Park on the Washougal yeah you're a snagger
hatchery hole on the North Lewis snaggers
the lower fly water on the Kalama, yeah you've got a fly rod but you're still a snagger
how about you just leave the corkies at home, buy some bobbers, buy some eggs or throw some spinners and just do things right
snaggers are NOT recreational anglers... they are poachers, no different than shooting an elk out of season
This high horse attitude about flossing is the funniest hill to die on.
I hope you never go fishing in alaska and have to suddenly judge the thousands of locals flipping for reds. All awful people.
I've had family members that are fishing guides, and myself, catch plenty of trout, pink salmon especially, and other fish with a small red bead or corky pegged 2" above the hook drifting our boats on the Kenai. Must be completely unethical of us. Game wardens really let us have it with all the zero dollar tickets each time we chatted.
Ever watch people fish the Russian river?
This whole argument is a damn joke to be having. Yall just need to mind your own business when your fishing and remember why you're out there. It's the same effect as getting mad that some people shoot animals over mounds of corn
Post by: bigtex on October 26, 2024, 08:18:36 AM
the fish must voluntarily take the hooks into it's mouthThis is discussed in my original post.
Is this actually in the regs?
Dont they say something about must be hooked in the head?
If so seems like conflicting info.
I havent looked and dont have a set of regs in front of me.
There are several fisheries that I feel flossing should be fine. Cowlitz system coho for example.
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Post by: Tbar on October 26, 2024, 08:38:18 AM
Give wardens more leeway and their voice more weight in court.. they say you were snagging YOU WERE SNAGGING. hell if your "Drift fishing" with just a corkie for fall salmon no question about it you are snagging if there is a pool full of you all fishing corkies, you're all snaggers.. yeah you've been doing it your whole life and you don't think of yourself as a poacher but you are. if you have to hook a number of fish to get one " in the mouth" you are a poacher.This is a poor comparison on many levels. If you have a conservation reference please cite it. If not it's a policy or ego conflict. In many of the areas where conservation goals are met actual snagging could be viewed as ethical (use vs waste). There are several post take terminal areas in Alaska where snagging is allowed with liberal limits. In the samish, with the mess that it is, there isn't the horsepower to negatively effect the needs. Again these are terminal areas and stacked hatchery fish that are in excess of egg take, escapement AND surplus. Nutrient delivery to nearby forest has limitations and is mostly feel good (or accusatory).
regulations.. " the fish must voluntarily take the hooks into it's mouth" everything else is snagging. hmm yeah maybe not provable in court but you know you're doing it and you should feel guilt and shame over it and stop doing it or not be offended when someone calls you a poacher you cannot have it both ways.
Below the hatchery on the Satsop yeah you're a snagger
Oak Park on the Washougal yeah you're a snagger
hatchery hole on the North Lewis snaggers
the lower fly water on the Kalama, yeah you've got a fly rod but you're still a snagger
how about you just leave the corkies at home, buy some bobbers, buy some eggs or throw some spinners and just do things right
snaggers are NOT recreational anglers... they are poachers, no different than shooting an elk out of season
Post by: Rob Allen on October 26, 2024, 11:35:19 AM
Just like the Facebook poaching rings that get busted that's the same caliber of people..
Post by: BA Mongor on October 26, 2024, 02:40:15 PM
Heck, we might as well just give them the power to sentence you on the spot.
Post by: hollymaster on October 26, 2024, 04:18:42 PM
Post by: Platensek-po on October 26, 2024, 04:39:18 PM
Give wardens more leeway and their voice more weight in court.. they say you were snagging YOU WERE SNAGGING. hell if your "Drift fishing" with just a corkie for fall salmon no question about it you are snagging if there is a pool full of you all fishing corkies, you're all snaggers.. yeah you've been doing it your whole life and you don't think of yourself as a poacher but you are. if you have to hook a number of fish to get one " in the mouth" you are a poacher.
regulations.. " the fish must voluntarily take the hooks into it's mouth" everything else is snagging. hmm yeah maybe not provable in court but you know you're doing it and you should feel guilt and shame over it and stop doing it or not be offended when someone calls you a poacher you cannot have it both ways.
Below the hatchery on the Satsop yeah you're a snagger
Oak Park on the Washougal yeah you're a snagger
hatchery hole on the North Lewis snaggers
the lower fly water on the Kalama, yeah you've got a fly rod but you're still a snagger
how about you just leave the corkies at home, buy some bobbers, buy some eggs or throw some spinners and just do things right
snaggers are NOT recreational anglers... they are poachers, no different than shooting an elk out of season
How would anyone know if a fish voluntarily took the hook in the mouth?
This statement is super bizarre. Guess next time I’ll ask the fish if he meant to bit the hook or not.
Post by: furbearer365 on October 26, 2024, 05:03:53 PM
Give wardens more leeway and their voice more weight in court.. they say you were snagging YOU WERE SNAGGING. hell if your "Drift fishing" with just a corkie for fall salmon no question about it you are snagging if there is a pool full of you all fishing corkies, you're all snaggers.. yeah you've been doing it your whole life and you don't think of yourself as a poacher but you are. if you have to hook a number of fish to get one " in the mouth" you are a poacher.
regulations.. " the fish must voluntarily take the hooks into it's mouth" everything else is snagging. hmm yeah maybe not provable in court but you know you're doing it and you should feel guilt and shame over it and stop doing it or not be offended when someone calls you a poacher you cannot have it both ways.
Below the hatchery on the Satsop yeah you're a snagger
Oak Park on the Washougal yeah you're a snagger
hatchery hole on the North Lewis snaggers
the lower fly water on the Kalama, yeah you've got a fly rod but you're still a snagger
how about you just leave the corkies at home, buy some bobbers, buy some eggs or throw some spinners and just do things right
snaggers are NOT recreational anglers... they are poachers, no different than shooting an elk out of season
How would anyone know if a fish voluntarily took the hook in the mouth?
This statement is super bizarre. Guess next time I’ll ask the fish if he meant to bit the hook or not.
It's not super bizarre. The point he's making is really basic. There is a difference between ethics and law. Law needs to be proven, ethics are an unspoken rule. Both of which have merit in hunting and fishing. His point is, people who snag know they are doing so, and they know if a fish is caught from a bite, or caught from a line bump. If you want to play dumb and act like since you can't prove a difference in court, that shows who you are as an outdoorsman
Post by: Platensek-po on October 26, 2024, 05:12:24 PM
Give wardens more leeway and their voice more weight in court.. they say you were snagging YOU WERE SNAGGING. hell if your "Drift fishing" with just a corkie for fall salmon no question about it you are snagging if there is a pool full of you all fishing corkies, you're all snaggers.. yeah you've been doing it your whole life and you don't think of yourself as a poacher but you are. if you have to hook a number of fish to get one " in the mouth" you are a poacher.
regulations.. " the fish must voluntarily take the hooks into it's mouth" everything else is snagging. hmm yeah maybe not provable in court but you know you're doing it and you should feel guilt and shame over it and stop doing it or not be offended when someone calls you a poacher you cannot have it both ways.
Below the hatchery on the Satsop yeah you're a snagger
Oak Park on the Washougal yeah you're a snagger
hatchery hole on the North Lewis snaggers
the lower fly water on the Kalama, yeah you've got a fly rod but you're still a snagger
how about you just leave the corkies at home, buy some bobbers, buy some eggs or throw some spinners and just do things right
snaggers are NOT recreational anglers... they are poachers, no different than shooting an elk out of season
How would anyone know if a fish voluntarily took the hook in the mouth?
This statement is super bizarre. Guess next time I’ll ask the fish if he meant to bit the hook or not.
It's not super bizarre. The point he's making is really basic. There is a difference between ethics and law. Law needs to be proven, ethics are an unspoken rule. Both of which have merit in hunting and fishing. His point is, people who snag know they are doing so, and they know if a fish is caught from a bite, or caught from a line bump. If you want to play dumb and act like since you can't prove a difference in court, that shows who you are as an outdoorsman
lol. I have caught uncountable steelhead fly fishing and with just a bead or ez eggs. Every single one hooked in the mouth. Yet according to him that’s snagging cause it’s not using bait or a spinner?? I e also caught fish foul hooked with spinners in the head cause they missed the take, is that a snagged fish?
Post by: snake on October 26, 2024, 05:32:29 PM
Post by: bigtex on October 26, 2024, 05:48:43 PM
Flossing is the only way to catch fish in the puke and carbon. Inch or two of visibility.What do you think people did to catch fish before flossing came around? People still caught fish, just not to the levels they do now.
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Post by: Taco280AI on October 26, 2024, 06:40:15 PM
No. There is a lot of fishing using longer leaders that aren't flossing.
:yeah:
And we don't need more and more and more laws/regs about what we can't do.
Post by: bigtex on October 26, 2024, 06:42:59 PM
It's fishing groups organizing the petition. I assume if/when it comes up formally that Enforcement will support it.Sounds like it's already illegal... :chuckle:Like I said, flossing is illegal but its difficult to prove. That's why Oregon and others instituted a leader length restriction.
Come on DFW...get it together
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Well unless you guys can interview the fish....But..
Ya based on the way WA laws are written...it seems impossible to prove.
Who's pushing the proposed rule... BIOS or Enforcement?
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Post by: Tbar on October 26, 2024, 07:09:34 PM
Which groups?It's fishing groups organizing the petition. I assume if/when it comes up formally that Enforcement will support it.Sounds like it's already illegal... :chuckle:Like I said, flossing is illegal but its difficult to prove. That's why Oregon and others instituted a leader length restriction.
Come on DFW...get it together
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Well unless you guys can interview the fish....But..
Ya based on the way WA laws are written...it seems impossible to prove.
Who's pushing the proposed rule... BIOS or Enforcement?
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Post by: Macs B on October 28, 2024, 03:54:20 PM