Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: NoBark on June 22, 2009, 08:34:49 PM

Title: Thinking out loud
Post by: NoBark on June 22, 2009, 08:34:49 PM: Just thinking out loud and interested in your thoughts. Don't want to stir a big pot of
brew-ha-ha, so just take it and think aobut it. It may become an issue in the future.

We all know the blues elk tags are highly coveted in Washington. My friends wife drew a tag for this fall. In talking with the biologist, he mentioned it's tough for most to draw in part because so many people have "poacher points" and put in for those units.

First, it's his opinion (might be fact but can't prove it) Second, my friends wife had 5 points. Soooo, who's to say?

Thinking down the road alittle. SUPPOSE it becomes obvious that there are enough people with "poacher points" that the vast majority of Blues tags go to them and the rest of us only scratch out a few of them.

The input I'm looking for is this.........What kind of adjustment would you like to see made to the system if any?
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: nwhunter on June 22, 2009, 10:26:33 PM: I would be curious really how many people drew blues tags or any premier tag for that matter, with poacher points in comparison with regular pointsholders. I would be suprised if there were that many but I could be wrong. I know of at least one for sure. Is it fair to guys who have waited ten plus years without drawing and someone gets drawn twice in that time span because of poacher points , no its not fair at all but really with how are draw system is set up someone with 2 points could draw again too so trying to make it fair isn't an option.Our points system involves so much luck that I don't think the poacher points make a huge impact. I think the poacher bonus points are a good deal and it is helping the problem and makes people think twice about doing something stupid because someone will turn them in. I think that we need to have a wait period on our premier elk and deer tags of 5 years before you can put in again. Also you shouldn't be able to draw a OIL tag and any other tag in the same year, spread the tags out to more people. I defenitely see both sides of this argument and sympathize with guys that have ten plus points the hard way and can't draw a tag but I think our draw is more being lucky than anything. It would be interesting if wdfw could show how many people are holding poacher points so we could know for sure the impact. nwhunter
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Branden on June 22, 2009, 10:32:11 PM: I know of two guys that have drawn a tag in the blues that had poacher points. I'm glad cause then maybe more guys will start turning other guys in.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: ing on June 22, 2009, 11:08:34 PM: That's funny, we always hear about people getting poacher points, but we never hear about the poachers themselves getting busted. I always thought it was b.s. anyways.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: SHANE(WA) on June 23, 2009, 01:31:09 AM: i drew on 3 pts in the area, muzzy tag.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: BIGBULLBALLS on June 23, 2009, 07:07:24 AM: I know of at least 4 tags in the blues that went to poacher points in the last several years. Bottom line, you catch a poacher and their convicted, start packing your bags because you're going on an awesome elk hunt in the next 2-3 years. I think the 10 points or $1000 is a joke. What hunter in their right mind would pass up 10 points. If you had to pay for the hunt you will now draw you will be looking a closer to $7000 actual value. Don't get me wrong, if I catch a poacher I will absolutely take the 10 points and hunt big bulls in the Blues.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Woodchuck on June 23, 2009, 07:37:04 AM: i hunt the blues every year, living here and all, i ahve not run into one guy with a bull tag that has told me he got it on poacher points, however the guy from kennewick that "just started hunting two years ago" that shot the big 6x6 500 yds from camp was a little irritating. i have no issue with the point reward, hopefully get somne of the buttholes out of the woods if they know we are all watching, hopefully will give the law abiding folks some more oppurtunities if we arent losing animals to scum :twocents:
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: NWBrute on June 23, 2009, 08:43:59 AM: I know of one bull tag(tag was 1 of 2) taken with poacher points in the first year of trying, I think he had 13 total. Then I drew moose with only 4 points this year and my father has 11 and can't draw an elk hunt with more tags (15) than the one that was drawn with poacher points. I agree that it is complete luck.

I like the idea of the poacher points, I know what was gone through to get those points. In this case it took many phone calls and at least three court dates in order to get the conviction, so in my opinion they deserve the points they are awarded. It was a long process.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: andrew_12gauge on June 23, 2009, 09:08:52 AM: my question is if you catch a poacher why would you put the 10 points toward elk, you can put them towards any of the special permit species so why not go OIL especially if youre one of the guys who doesnt have the full 14 points right now
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: provider on June 23, 2009, 09:22:03 AM: They don't apply towards OIL.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on June 23, 2009, 09:39:56 AM: I'm fine with anything that gets more poachers convicted. Also, the points are "up to 10"; depends on the seriousness of the offense, the effort put out by the witness, and the discretion of the officer.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: ing on June 23, 2009, 05:44:57 PM: Quote from: provider on June 23, 2009, 09:22:03 AM
They don't apply towards OIL.
Explain OIL please. I've seen this in a couple of other threads also.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: sjhgraysage on June 23, 2009, 06:00:05 PM: Once In a Lifetime
ie: moose, sheep, goat
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: andrew_12gauge on June 23, 2009, 07:27:36 PM: Quote from: provider on June 23, 2009, 09:22:03 AM
They don't apply towards OIL.

From everything ive ever read on the program if you turn in a poacher you can put them towards any of the permits you would like, including OILs
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Todd_ID on June 23, 2009, 09:35:04 PM: I personally like Idaho's draw idea. If you put in for the OIL tags, then you can't apply that year for elk or deer. If you draw for elk or deer, then you can't put in the next year. That keeps the people wanting a sheep tag out of the elk pool, and it keeps those wanting an elk tag out of the sheep pool: both groups are happy. That, and their premium units don't have a general season of any kind, so a premium tag is a premium unit, and they can give 125 tags instead of 2 like we get to try for here.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: NoBark on June 23, 2009, 10:21:37 PM: The poacher points can't be used on OIL tags...

At first I thought perhaps I would say that poacher points could only be used on units with at least 25 tags ( pick a number) .

But after thinking it through. Every year the max point crowd creeps up a point. In a few years getting an extra 10 may not be that much of an advantage. Statistically it should be less and less of an advantage in pulling a tag in a hard-to-draw unit. So it may never become an issue.

A side note to Branden. I'd love to get those points myself. But I guess I run in the wrong circles because I haven't found or heard of a poacher since this program started.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Map on June 23, 2009, 11:07:29 PM: I agree Todd.

I for one have seen the poacher point holders have a positive result in the draw, not only for elk but for deer too. I honestly think they have some sort of edge on the rest of the general point holders...I wouldn't be complaining if I got a tag! It might tick some guys off though.

I have heard that turning in people for bear baiting earns you 10 points as well.

It's hard not to want a blues tag with all the free information available and supporting proof to back it up.

I am going to auction off half of my points next year to the highest bidder to go in as a co-applicant with me. It will be for four archery elk choices. :chuckle:

I didn't draw one of the tags so if anybody who drew needs help on information for the Wenaha let me know.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: ing on June 23, 2009, 11:14:32 PM: Quote from: sjhgraysage on June 23, 2009, 06:00:05 PM
Once In a Lifetime
ie: moose, sheep, goat
Thanks sjhgraysage. I had a feeling it was something obvious I just couldn't put it together.
Title: Re: Thinking out loud
Post by: Branden on June 23, 2009, 11:24:35 PM: Quote from: NoBark on June 23, 2009, 10:21:37 PM
The poacher points can't be used on OIL tags...

At first I thought perhaps I would say that poacher points could only be used on units with at least 25 tags ( pick a number) .

But after thinking it through. Every year the max point crowd creeps up a point. In a few years getting an extra 10 may not be that much of an advantage. Statistically it should be less and less of an advantage in pulling a tag in a hard-to-draw unit. So it may never become an issue.

A side note to Branden. I'd love to get those points myself. But I guess I run in the wrong circles because I haven't found or heard of a poacher since this program started.

I can't find one either but I always keep my eyes and ears open.

Quote from: Map on June 23, 2009, 11:07:29 PM
I agree Todd.

I for one have seen the poacher point holders have a positive result in the draw, not only for elk but for deer too. I honestly think they have some sort of edge on the rest of the general point holders...I wouldn't be complaining if I got a tag! It might tick some guys off though.

I know a guy that turned in a couple poachers and he still hasn't got a tag so I'm not sure they have an edge except for more points and luck. :dunno: