Post by: Crunchy on May 15, 2025, 12:36:00 PM
Post by: ELKBURGER on May 15, 2025, 12:51:07 PM
Ok. I have noticed my first shot on a clean and cold barrel is about 2.5 inches high and a tad to the right at 200 yards. Is it a clean barrel or cold barrel that likely causing this? It is also about 30 fps slower. I didn't clean my barrel after shooting today to see what it does on my next range trip. Anyone figure this out? Groups awesome and roughly 12fps SD over 25 rounds.I have noticed similar affects with cold bore mostly. Since it is mostly noticed between coyote hunts with very few shots, I dont clean the barrel after every hunt. When I check zero with a cold bore, first shot is a bit high and subsequent shots will stack on original zero.
Question is, do you zero for cold bore or follow up shots on warm barrel. For a hunting setup, cold bore shot should be the most important.
Post by: fishngamereaper on May 15, 2025, 12:57:07 PM
My rifle's where always high right. Still sub moa....but off.
Every gun is different.
Was it off enough to make a difference for hunting...no
But for what we did it was necessary knowledge.
We also fouled our barrels after cleaning.
A clean barrel seemed to make the cold bore worse.
Post by: Mtnwalker on May 15, 2025, 12:59:17 PM
Post by: Bob33 on May 15, 2025, 02:14:30 PM
A three to five shot group taken that way tells me much more about what I can expect while hunting. The first shot is the one that should matter most in a hunting situation.
Post by: jrebel on May 15, 2025, 02:27:51 PM
Same is true for a muzzleloader.....though usually one fouling shot is plenty. :tup:
Post by: GWP on May 15, 2025, 02:37:58 PM
The only way to know on yours is to experiment, like you and others have said.
Post by: Buckjunkie on May 15, 2025, 02:42:59 PM
All shoot good cold fowled.
Post by: pickardjw on May 15, 2025, 06:12:05 PM
Post by: 30.06 on May 15, 2025, 07:13:16 PM
Probably as many different ways to approach the problem as there are different ways to hunt. Great topic!
Post by: Stein on May 15, 2025, 07:22:49 PM
Clean bore shots are way worse than cold bore shots in my opinion. I never hunt on a clean bore. I usually deep clean my barrels once a year before I put them away for the winter. From spring till the deep clean cycle, I may run a couple patches through the rifle ever 50-100 shots or as groups start to open up. After a deep clean, I find it could take 3-5 shots to foul the barrel before my groups start tightening up again.
Same is true for a muzzleloader.....though usually one fouling shot is plenty. :tup:
:yeah:
Clean barrel for sure. When you really get a barrel hot it will likely also stray, but that's not in the first several shots. My hunting rifle only takes 2 shots before it's back on, so I clean before hunting season and then one trip to the range for 5-10 shots to verify everything.
You can also sight in for a clean bore, but then it's only on for 1-2 shots so that never made any sense to me.
Post by: zwickeyman on May 15, 2025, 07:31:44 PM
Clean bore shots are way worse than cold bore shots in my opinion. I never hunt on a clean bore. I usually deep clean my barrels once a year before I put them away for the winter. From spring till the deep clean cycle, I may run a couple patches through the rifle ever 50-100 shots or as groups start to open up. After a deep clean, I find it could take 3-5 shots to foul the barrel before my groups start tightening up again.
Same is true for a muzzleloader.....though usually one fouling shot is plenty. :tup:
:yeah: Right on the money
Post by: Crunchy on May 15, 2025, 09:11:06 PM
Post by: Sneaky on May 16, 2025, 03:07:36 AM
Worth a listen/try
Post by: pickardjw on May 16, 2025, 07:11:14 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvLQ1rkpUTwo
Worth a listen/try
:yeah:
Post by: hookr88 on May 16, 2025, 03:01:37 PM
I fire 2 fouling shots from each rifle before arriving in hunting camp. 3 would be better but I am a cheapskate and don't reload. If I miss I clean the rifle and switch to the other one. I probably wouldn't miss so much if I fired 4 fouling shots from each rifle.How much do you invest in your hunting vs the cost of 2 extra rounds a year? Just buy the cheapest ammo you can for your fouling loads. If your not zeroing, just fouling it doesn’t matter where they go.
Probably as many different ways to approach the problem as there are different ways to hunt. Great topic!
Post by: shmacker on May 16, 2025, 03:12:02 PM
Post by: Stein on May 16, 2025, 04:47:22 PM
Post by: CarbonHunter on May 16, 2025, 06:15:38 PM
Post by: Fidelk on May 16, 2025, 06:26:32 PM
2. Once sighted in, do not clean if you will be hunting with it in the near future.
3. I believe a cold barrel is best to determine accuracy.......after taking the first shot, wait at least two minutes between following shots.......cool it down a bit.
That's all that I think I know. You can test this by setting up a steady rest and after doing the above, shoot the same number of shots as rapidly as you can without a cool down interval and then compare the results.
Post by: Sneaky on May 17, 2025, 05:48:29 AM
That podcast is an interesting listen. For the guys who don’t clean their barrels, do you run an oiled patch through the barrel before putting your gun in the safe for a few months? Or just zero cleaning/oiling?
I still oil to prevent any rust but I don't scrub the bore anymore. I am about 300 rounds in since cleaning on a suppressed 6.5cm and its running/grouping like a champ. The no clean thing is new to me and if I get an issue I will report back.
Post by: CaNINE on May 17, 2025, 07:06:27 AM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on May 17, 2025, 07:30:00 AM
Accuracy for me is 5 shots I can cover with my hand at 1000 yards.
Post by: CaNINE on May 17, 2025, 08:36:11 AM
I shoot big hunting magnums quite a bit at 1000 yards over the year. Accuracy drops off after 25-30 rounds I find and thorough cleaning of the carbon gets it back.
Accuracy for me is 5 shots I can cover with my hand at 1000 yards.
I suppose it varies by gun. I haven’t cleaned my RUMs for hundreds of rounds and they’ve maintained accuracy. I do keep a round count and am watching for changes in group size.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on May 17, 2025, 09:21:15 AM
Post by: dmoua on May 17, 2025, 10:24:04 AM
I have yet to see a big shift of impact with a cold bore shot with a barrel that’s already been fouled. Maybe a tenth or less at 100 yards and more than likely due to cold shooter syndrome. If a barrel has a noticeable shift with cold bore shots, it’s only good for plinking imo or close encounters.
Post by: pickardjw on May 17, 2025, 09:24:42 PM
That podcast is an interesting listen. For the guys who don’t clean their barrels, do you run an oiled patch through the barrel before putting your gun in the safe for a few months? Or just zero cleaning/oiling?
Yes, though I haven't in the last few years since I stopped cleaning. Just happen to shoot them all frequently enough. Small safe :chuckle:
Post by: Crunchy on May 20, 2025, 11:26:17 AM
speeds
1 2935
2 2952
3 2933
4 2946
5 2942
6 2950
Post by: jrebel on May 20, 2025, 12:30:44 PM
Well made to the range today to shoot a fouled cold bore to see how it grouped with the 5 other rounds. It grouped very well. at 200 it was within shooter error which was 1 inch right of point of aim. ES of 19 and SD of 7.1. Not thrilled with that but not sure where it's coming from . Looking at a new scale maybe or trying to figure out how to hard reset my Chargemaster 1500. Had it for 10 years so maybe I need to upgrade the scale.
speeds
1 2935
2 2952
3 2933
4 2946
5 2942
6 2950
That ES and SD are just fine if the rifle is grouping well. An ES of 30 or less with SD in the single digits is pretty darn good. 👍
Post by: Crunchy on May 20, 2025, 01:32:51 PM
Well made to the range today to shoot a fouled cold bore to see how it grouped with the 5 other rounds. It grouped very well. at 200 it was within shooter error which was 1 inch right of point of aim. ES of 19 and SD of 7.1. Not thrilled with that but not sure where it's coming from . Looking at a new scale maybe or trying to figure out how to hard reset my Chargemaster 1500. Had it for 10 years so maybe I need to upgrade the scale.
speeds
1 2935
2 2952
3 2933
4 2946
5 2942
6 2950
That ES and SD are just fine if the rifle is grouping well. An ES of 30 or less with SD in the single digits is pretty darn good. 👍
you are probably right but you know how that chasing your tail thing goes. If I don't settle soon I will burn this barrel out haha. Three different powders, two different primers and two different bullets. I am going to shoot one more ladder and I give. It is shooting very well.
Post by: Mtnwalker on May 20, 2025, 02:28:49 PM
Well made to the range today to shoot a fouled cold bore to see how it grouped with the 5 other rounds. It grouped very well. at 200 it was within shooter error which was 1 inch right of point of aim. ES of 19 and SD of 7.1. Not thrilled with that but not sure where it's coming from . Looking at a new scale maybe or trying to figure out how to hard reset my Chargemaster 1500. Had it for 10 years so maybe I need to upgrade the scale.
speeds
1 2935
2 2952
3 2933
4 2946
5 2942
6 2950
That ES and SD are just fine if the rifle is grouping well. An ES of 30 or less with SD in the single digits is pretty darn good. 👍
you are probably right but you know how that chasing your tail thing goes. If I don't settle soon I will burn this barrel out haha. Three different powders, two different primers and two different bullets. I am going to shoot one more ladder and I give. It is shooting very well.
Agreed, you're talking less than 3" of vertical dispersion at 1000 yards with your 19 ES. Unless you just enjoy tinkering
Post by: Crunchy on May 21, 2025, 06:46:01 PM
Ran a ladder from low to high and then high to low after letting the barrel cool. This was with a clean bore and took two foolers before starting. Ive been shooting at 66.4 but now thinking maybe I should be at 67.1ish.
66.1 2928. 2933
66.4. 2929 2947
66.7. 2956. 2951
67.0. 2964. 2963
67.3. 2971. 2958
67.6. 2993. 2984
Post by: Lowedog on May 22, 2025, 05:32:13 AM