Post by: BrockWeilep on August 06, 2025, 08:16:06 PM
I’m just curious if anyone else is seeing this or if I’m just finding bucks that are getting old and can no longer grow that antlers they once had.
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Post by: hunter399 on August 06, 2025, 08:53:11 PM
I'm sure there is a thousand factors that can and will effect growth, including just getting old.
Older bucks have to hide through multiple hunting season.
Then rut very hard at the same time as these hunting seasons.
By spring I've seen older bucks ,that look like they are gonna drop over dead. Spring green up,how fast they can pull themselves out of that half dead condition. And actually start antler growth.
That's my theory.
Older/bigger the buck,harder they rut.
Which puts them in bad condition in the spring.
With winter die off possible in the spring green up if they can't recover.
Definitely stunt the antler growth, the longer it takes to pull out of that condition.
With no bait ,or feeding allowed.
Older bucks naturally decrease,unless all there nutritional needs are meet year round.
Post by: Wingin it on August 06, 2025, 09:53:24 PM
Post by: huntnnw on August 06, 2025, 10:50:26 PM
Post by: BrockWeilep on August 06, 2025, 11:16:39 PM
every single nice buck I saw last year has grown bigger this year. It takes 9 plus in most cases to see a real regression. I have hunted bucks for up to 5 years in some cases and they all had up and down years in that span. One buck for instance would have 2 drop tines 1 year then the following had 0 then another year he had 1 drop and back to 2 dropsAgreed for the most part. Not sure where you’re getting the 9+. Some bucks biggest years are much younger than that, but it has been linked to winters/conditions.
I’m just mostly confused because we seemed to have a good amount of snow pack while leaving the valleys and winter grounds with a very easy winter. We did have a dryer spring and the mountains are still very green. I thought those conditions would’ve been very good for antler growth.
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Post by: hunter399 on August 07, 2025, 04:59:23 AM
What's the hunting pressure like in these areas.
Private vs public .
Mountain buck vs AG buck
Do the bucks go nocturnal,only eat at night during hunting season.
Big bucks do not eat during the rut. Only one thing they want.
By late December/January most big bucks are starved before winter starts. Running on fat reserve,is why they continue to look healthy. By spring may look half dead.
Then you have genetics from one area or another.
May be that one area bucks will top out antler growth at 4-5 years.
Some 6-7 years . Ten years ,who knows. These are genetic traits.
Growing extra points,trash points,double eye guards,drop times,all that. Pure genetics,seen young bucks with double eye guards.
Sometimes they carry those genetics there whole life,other times it happens as they age .
The only way to know for sure ,is to keep an eye on individual bucks for many years. Look at all the factors in its life,see the genetics for that given area . And make your best guess.
Post by: Rainier10 on August 07, 2025, 07:50:59 AM
Post by: hunter399 on August 07, 2025, 03:40:59 PM
I know around my place the deer antlers are much smaller this year. I also know that with the new baiting law I haven’t been putting out antlermax. I also know this year I’m not seeing as many fawns. That antlermax helped the does and fawns as well not just the bucks.
Yup ,seeing is believing.
Supplement feeding has probably helped our deer/elk ,a lot more than most realized.
At least someone noticed.
Yes, I quit putting supplements,salt, other attractant out.
Since it was public I did my stuff on ,there will be nothing to drive the deer to public this year.
Post by: boneaddict on August 10, 2025, 01:49:43 PM
Post by: bearpaw on August 10, 2025, 04:28:21 PM
I know around my place the deer antlers are much smaller this year. I also know that with the new baiting law I haven’t been putting out antlermax. I also know this year I’m not seeing as many fawns. That antlermax helped the does and fawns as well not just the bucks.
Totally agree about the minerals and nutrition.
In the northeast I’m seeing a few more bucks reaching maturity, we are one year further away from the blue tongue die off. But I would be willing to bet if all my feeders were going that the deer would be a little fatter and bigger racked. Obviously the whole countryside has less highly nutritional food available due to the bait ban.
Post by: huntnnw on August 10, 2025, 05:35:37 PM
Post by: kodiak06 on August 10, 2025, 07:47:51 PM
I don’t buy the antlers being smaller cause people are not baiting. Their browse has a far greater effect on antler growth . I’ve read several studies on feeding deer and antlers. Free ranging deer and dumping feed has little effect if any. A buck in spring and summer will consume 10-12lbs of food a day. Watch a buck at feed and what he will actually eat . It’s very minimal compared to his whole day. High quality ag and browse is what will create the best antler size. The study I read also said the amount of feed needed to actually do anything was pretty staggering . You would go broke and would need to dump a truck bed full at a time. Plus lotta the stuff guys were dumping does nothing in the spring summer for antlers
I agree, I don't think it's a noticeable difference. I think from the reading I've done in the past, minerals do more for pregnant/nursing does than a bucks antler growth.
Post by: Rainier10 on August 10, 2025, 09:46:53 PM
I don’t buy the antlers being smaller cause people are not baiting. Their browse has a far greater effect on antler growth . I’ve read several studies on feeding deer and antlers. Free ranging deer and dumping feed has little effect if any. A buck in spring and summer will consume 10-12lbs of food a day. Watch a buck at feed and what he will actually eat . It’s very minimal compared to his whole day. High quality ag and browse is what will create the best antler size. The study I read also said the amount of feed needed to actually do anything was pretty staggering . You would go broke and would need to dump a truck bed full at a time. Plus lotta the stuff guys were dumping does nothing in the spring summer for antlers
Is a pallet, 2,000 pounds, of antlermax every four weeks staggering?
Post by: BrockWeilep on August 10, 2025, 10:11:46 PM
I don’t buy the antlers being smaller cause people are not baiting. Their browse has a far greater effect on antler growth . I’ve read several studies on feeding deer and antlers. Free ranging deer and dumping feed has little effect if any. A buck in spring and summer will consume 10-12lbs of food a day. Watch a buck at feed and what he will actually eat . It’s very minimal compared to his whole day. High quality ag and browse is what will create the best antler size. The study I read also said the amount of feed needed to actually do anything was pretty staggering . You would go broke and would need to dump a truck bed full at a time. Plus lotta the stuff guys were dumping does nothing in the spring summer for antlersMy thoughts exactly. I think Bone is more accurate with the dry spring.
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Post by: huntnnw on August 10, 2025, 10:14:17 PM
Post by: hunter399 on August 11, 2025, 05:53:38 AM
Yes you would have to dump a truck load.
Feed store different story, all livestock peeps know what they need to make it bigger and better.
That's all I can say on open forum
Post by: nwwanderer on August 11, 2025, 09:39:57 AM
Post by: bearpaw on August 11, 2025, 10:33:06 AM
I realize it’s not wildlife management’s goal to turn all our wild animals into game ranched animals. I think that issue and the fact the anti-hunting commissioners want to stop anything they can, had more to do with the wildlife bait ban than disease did, even though disease was the excuse used for the ban.
Another example of the impact extra feed can make on wildlife, we used to kill bear that weighed 400+ nearly every year in northeastern WA. After bear baiting was banned the average weight of bear we’ve taken in eastern Washington has probably dropped by 50 to 100 pounds and once we got more than 10 years past when baiting was ended we have not killed a single bear over 400 pounds in northeastern WA. I don’t hear of many other people taking as heavy of bear either!
When you consider what areas produce the heaviest animals in any species, there are almost always excessive amounts of quality feed, either natural or human provided, available to help those animals grow so large.
Getting back to the main questions in this topic, I think there is plenty of feed this year in the areas I hunt, but the whole season has been earlier, because spring was early I think we got dry earlier, but I think there is still plenty of browse for deer. I will be more concerned if winter starts early and is long and hard.
Post by: teal101 on August 11, 2025, 10:53:59 AM
Your asking a question that most biologist, probably couldn't answer. Would tell you there personal opinion.
What's the hunting pressure like in these areas.
Private vs public .
Mountain buck vs AG buck
Do the bucks go nocturnal,only eat at night during hunting season.
Big bucks do not eat during the rut. Only one thing they want.
By late December/January most big bucks are starved before winter starts. Running on fat reserve,is why they continue to look healthy. By spring may look half dead.
Then you have genetics from one area or another.
May be that one area bucks will top out antler growth at 4-5 years.
Some 6-7 years . Ten years ,who knows. These are genetic traits.
Growing extra points,trash points,double eye guards,drop times,all that. Pure genetics,seen young bucks with double eye guards.
Sometimes they carry those genetics there whole life,other times it happens as they age .
The only way to know for sure ,is to keep an eye on individual bucks for many years. Look at all the factors in its life,see the genetics for that given area . And make your best guess.
Every buck I caught on camera last year over my pear pile took a bite while he was chasing tail :dunno: The small bucks just ate, but the big ones would take a few bites them start chasing again. Was interesting to see.
Post by: hunter399 on August 11, 2025, 12:23:18 PM
I might be wrong,I've never seen them eat much during rut.Your asking a question that most biologist, probably couldn't answer. Would tell you there personal opinion.
What's the hunting pressure like in these areas.
Private vs public .
Mountain buck vs AG buck
Do the bucks go nocturnal,only eat at night during hunting season.
Big bucks do not eat during the rut. Only one thing they want.
By late December/January most big bucks are starved before winter starts. Running on fat reserve,is why they continue to look healthy. By spring may look half dead.
Then you have genetics from one area or another.
May be that one area bucks will top out antler growth at 4-5 years.
Some 6-7 years . Ten years ,who knows. These are genetic traits.
Growing extra points,trash points,double eye guards,drop times,all that. Pure genetics,seen young bucks with double eye guards.
Sometimes they carry those genetics there whole life,other times it happens as they age .
The only way to know for sure ,is to keep an eye on individual bucks for many years. Look at all the factors in its life,see the genetics for that given area . And make your best guess.
Every buck I caught on camera last year over my pear pile took a bite while he was chasing tail :dunno: The small bucks just ate, but the big ones would take a few bites them start chasing again. Was interesting to see.
I'm talking that week ,dead nuts rut.
Not post or pre rut.
All the bucks that would show on my camera with a doe.
They always would stand in the background,with this crazy look in there eyes. Where as not rutting ,they would push the doe out and eat.
Then I've had smaller 4pt or something be eating for just a few pics,then maybe ten minutes later a bigger or biggest in the area shows. He doesn't eat at all . Just chasing them smaller guys off.
Those are just trends I noticed,but of course if your bait pile is a good one. There's always that exception .
So your probably correct.
Post by: kodiak06 on August 11, 2025, 05:56:35 PM
This is kind of getting away from the original post but I truly believe extra feed and minerals over the long term (providing feed most or all of the year) makes more difference than many people realize. Case in point, how do you think these game ranches produce such huge antlers? Selective breeding and feeding! Why are Midwest whitetails living in ag rich areas so much heavier than northwestern woods whitetails?
You answered your own question.... The AG field areas have more nutritional foods. The black belt of Alabama is a good example. Richer soils, more ag, more antler... Research has shown this for decades.