Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Other Big Game => Topic started by: coachcw on July 01, 2009, 08:21:21 AM

Title: Cali records
Post by: coachcw on July 01, 2009, 08:21:21 AM: Does any one know the archery state record for California big horns ? The book I have shows 164 7/8 from yakima county . Thank's Coach ( I'm going crazy counting sheep at night )
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: starbailey on July 01, 2009, 09:12:09 AM: I'm not sure of the record either as lots of people don't enter them. I would think is might be as high as 170ish.
Ramslam, what is the biggest cali you know of killed by a bow hunter?
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: elkoholic1 on July 01, 2009, 09:52:43 AM: according to nothwest big game Inc. its 164 7/8 killed in yakima county in 1987, there web page says its the latest and greatest... state record is 182 6/8 killed in 2002 by rifle.. :twocents:
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: coachcw on July 01, 2009, 11:47:45 AM: some thing to shoot for 170ish
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: boneaddict on July 01, 2009, 12:22:03 PM: I don't think I have seen a 170 on Clemans for a long while.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: jdb on July 01, 2009, 12:26:56 PM: what would you guess the one we saw in the canyon was Doug?
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: boneaddict on July 01, 2009, 12:30:22 PM: Thats the biggest one I've seen for awhile down here. I need to have Pope eval it. I suck at sheep.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: jdb on July 01, 2009, 12:38:12 PM: I honestly dont even know where to begin on sheep, I saw a dandy out on the very end of clemans in about feb. that was nice but Im not sure if he was as good as the one we saw.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: Austrian Hunter on July 01, 2009, 12:43:20 PM: This pic I took on Mt. Clemens.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: jackelope on July 01, 2009, 12:56:32 PM: pretty solid ram in the back, 7 year old?
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: jdb on July 01, 2009, 03:36:19 PM: I hope some of our sheep experts way in on a score for that one.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: Slider on July 01, 2009, 04:02:10 PM: 165 tops!!!
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: huntnphool on July 01, 2009, 05:12:24 PM: 162 for the back one :twocents:
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: coachcw on July 01, 2009, 06:19:14 PM: ok guys how about 165 then, he's got to be there late .aim high right?[quick=475,325][/quick]
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 01, 2009, 09:15:56 PM: No length or mass. 154-158" from that angle... 7 year old.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: jager on July 01, 2009, 09:20:48 PM: He, he.... I was going to say 155"- 158"
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: huntnphool on July 01, 2009, 09:55:04 PM: Looks like he has decent mass to me, but I have to agree on the short length.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 02, 2009, 09:45:17 AM: Has mass at the bases, but the 3rds and 4ths are... :crap:

33+33, 14+14, 12+12, 10+10, 6+6 = 150"

If his bases are more like 14.5 then all the other mass could put him in that mid 150 range... :dunno: Anyone got a photo from a different angle? He might be longer from a different angle... ;)
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: boneaddict on July 02, 2009, 09:47:40 AM: Stay tuned Pope, I am trying to find pics of the one JDB is asking about.
This sucks at work not being able to see pics, but I have my ways. LOL
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: boneaddict on July 02, 2009, 10:16:58 AM: Not as big as I thought he was. I did see a couple bigger on Clemans.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2Fmassiveram.jpg&hash=c3d7b1005a567a3c8f87c8b34d8e647a20cc991b).
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2Fsmallcanyon.jpg&hash=5bcf195fbd16db171001f1fac3a75f73536cfa00)

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2Friverram.jpg&hash=52ecb0672b407fb557df1aaf47f6ad851255ad98)
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: boneaddict on July 02, 2009, 10:24:38 AM: How about this one. Seems to have less mass, more length???
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2Flatersh1.jpg&hash=3590eef6b0cfeab2444007a06bafb46f5b766693)
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 02, 2009, 10:25:19 AM: Regarding Bone's post #19: I think still 33-34" long. Pretty similar to the other ram. Upper 150's... :dunno: Don't pull the trigger Coach... :chuckle:
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 02, 2009, 10:30:16 AM: That's a good ram Bone in reply #20. Good length and flare.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: jackelope on July 02, 2009, 10:35:39 AM: Is he (#20)broomed on the left and not on the right?
does that affect his score?
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 02, 2009, 10:40:09 AM: It's hard to tell but you may be right there jackelope. It would deduct from his net. I would tell Coach if he liked him to shoot if I couldn't find a mega ram... :chuckle:
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: boneaddict on July 02, 2009, 10:42:19 AM: Chipped, but contains about the same length Jack.

Thats about what my impression was Pope. I actually thoughtthe river ram was bigger when I was there. I think I was done in on the mass. Looking over the pics he seemed awefully "tight", or no flare, not much for length. I liked #20 much better, and for good reason I guess.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: boneaddict on July 02, 2009, 10:42:59 AM: I'd shoot #20 in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 02, 2009, 10:44:14 AM: It's always tough with one angle. The length is the key on that 2nd ram. He flares out and drops below the jaw and the circle his horn makes is bigger. I like flaring rams so he just looks better to me. If I had different angles we could refine the scores and get them close.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: boneaddict on July 02, 2009, 10:44:41 AM: I'll see what other pics I have of him Jack to see about your question for sure.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: boneaddict on July 02, 2009, 10:59:39 AM: Should be this guy right here. I'll have to wait until I get home to see if I have others. You'll note he is chipped but didn't lose much on it.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2Fthelook.jpg&hash=55907d927d92a2c0365c3a215b297e27861be6f4)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2Fbed.jpg&hash=55d63aa900c2dec36350ffad3297c1503d5c6c42)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2Fsh3.jpg&hash=6cdec2c39d5ec80df61e91923191e7634af7bb01)
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 02, 2009, 11:07:25 AM: Ut oh, I think I way overestimated the mass. His bases don't look like they are over about 14". Length was also a bit long. Let's redo this:

36+36, 14+14, 13+13, 10+10, 7+7 = 160

And that's not conservative... :bash:
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: jackelope on July 02, 2009, 11:07:49 AM: if i understand sheep scoring correctly those short fat horns help mass measurements but not length...whats more important?
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 02, 2009, 11:14:42 AM: They do that so old rams that broom don't get discounted on score. Short fat horns can be good because mass affects 3 mass scores whereas length only affect 2 scores. That being said, if you want to be a mega ram you must have both. Me personally, I think length is usually better if they aren't skinny all the way out like the ram you just posted is. He has length but mass is lacking on those thirds and fourths.

Let's say you have a 40" ram that has decent mass but still has his lamb tips. That outter mass measurement will be small and maybe the 3rd quarter. If he broomed off 4" on each side and became a 36" ram he has lost 4" on both sides and 8" total from his score. However, that 3rd and 4th quarter mass measurement will now go up. You just need to hope the mass will go up enough to make up 8" of total score. So if a ram is thick all the way until the 4th mass measurement he might gain a lot by brooming off the lamb tip and he can make up for the lost score.

I think with average rams that length usually helps a tad better.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: coachcw on July 02, 2009, 11:29:10 AM: Thanks guys , I'm learning a bunch from your posts. Coach , ps some one may have to hold my ammo .
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 02, 2009, 11:31:25 AM: Look at this ram. He has huge mass at the bases and first quarter but dies in his outside mass measurements. If he broomed 5" of those lamb tips off it would probably help his score. This is not a typical gradual transition that you see in most rams though.

(https://hunting-washington.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10250/teeth2.jpg)
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: Skyvalhunter on July 02, 2009, 11:35:39 AM: You figure he is a younger ram with decent genetics?
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 02, 2009, 11:37:13 AM: Yes and yes. Maybe 4 years old with huge potential... If this ram grows 6 more years he'll be 200". I'm sure a hunter will kill him before that though.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: boneaddict on July 02, 2009, 11:45:30 AM: Thats about max what I have been seeing down here. I'll keep my eyes out maybe for some more nailbiting eyecandy for coach. I ran into a bunch of sheep the otherday where I really didn't think there were any, so I will see if I can get some decent ram pics.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 02, 2009, 11:53:10 AM: Look at Andrew's dad's ram. This is a good one that is decieving and the mass adds a lot. He holds the mass and is longer than he looks. Cool ram because his first quarter is almost or probably bigger than the bases. I know the length measurements were 37 and 35. Pull the trigger Coach! :chuckle:

37+35, 15+15, 14+14, 12+12, 9+9 = 172

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11470.0;attach=12816;image)
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 02, 2009, 12:04:12 PM: Let's use Jagers ram. Hopefully you don't mind Jager? Do you have the measurements from your ram?

35+35, 14+14, 13+13, 10+10, 8+8 = 160"

(https://hunting-washington.com/cpg/albums/userpics/12869/Ram_r_side_4137.jpg)
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: Ridgerunner on July 02, 2009, 12:12:05 PM: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

When do I get to draw...... :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 02, 2009, 12:16:38 PM: This one should be fun to score... :drool:

41+41, 15+15, 14+14, 12+12, 10+10 = 184

(https://hunting-washington.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10250/Brown_Butt.jpg)
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 02, 2009, 12:17:47 PM: Man, I'm not going to get any work done today. Guess it's time to go to court now...
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: coachcw on July 02, 2009, 12:33:27 PM: Wow !!! It would be nice if went a on a long walk south .Will the canyon sheep travel to clemans for ewes? This is gonna be the longest four months ever.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: boneaddict on July 02, 2009, 12:37:06 PM: Yes and no. LOL Its possible but not likely, though I have nice rams behind my house in the wintertime, whose to say where they came from, but do to all the game fences...... :dunno:

#20 was a Clemans ram.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: boneaddict on July 02, 2009, 12:37:23 PM: and he'll have another year under his belt.....
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: jackelope on July 02, 2009, 01:33:59 PM: 2006 clemans ram
Quote
Jeff Thorpe sent in this photo of his friend, Mike Hagemeier. Mike drew a California bighorn tag in Washington, and was lucky enough to take this great ram in his home state. The ram was taken in Yakima County on September 15th, and is reported to score in the mid-170s.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: Skyvalhunter on July 02, 2009, 01:42:48 PM: Wasnt that pic posted on the site at one point?
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: jackelope on July 02, 2009, 01:44:21 PM: dunno...i scalped it off of b/c trophy watch from oct. 06 i think it was.
http://www.boone-crockett.org/NEWS/trophyWatch_detail.asp?area=news&ID=AA48BC0B-BF82-4CB9-8538-767D512C20C1
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: jager on July 02, 2009, 02:13:49 PM: No problem Pope,

35.5"+35"
14.25"+14"
13"+12.75"
11.75"+11.5"
7.75"+7.5"

163.25"

Judging rams from these nice close photos is the easy part.

Judging them from a few hundred yards and being able to tell the difference between 3" or 5" is a whole 'nother world. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: Todd_ID on July 03, 2009, 08:19:19 PM: Damn close guess there Pope! And damn nice ram Jager!
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: videoman on July 04, 2009, 10:07:14 AM: shot this ram in washington when I was 12 yrs old. Seeing if anyone wanted to score it.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: WDFW-SUX on July 04, 2009, 10:13:31 AM: Did you realize how special that tag was when you were 12?

Nice ram by the way. 175?
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: huntnphool on July 04, 2009, 10:19:16 AM: Damn, thats a nice ram videoman, congrats
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: BC CHASER on July 04, 2009, 10:44:15 AM: Quote from: videoman on July 04, 2009, 10:07:14 AM
shot this ram in washington when I was 12 yrs old. Seeing if anyone wanted to score it.

Im going to guess in the mid 180's? :dunno: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: andrew_12gauge on July 04, 2009, 11:03:03 PM: 162 really good length but the mass just isnt there
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: videoman on July 04, 2009, 11:56:14 PM: Its not a cali and it goes 180 3/8 black butte tag. 40" length and 16 inch bases.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: 280ackley on July 04, 2009, 11:58:48 PM: Nice ram videoman.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: provider on July 05, 2009, 12:07:13 AM: That is beautiful!
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: andrew_12gauge on July 05, 2009, 04:08:11 PM: damn those bases dont look 16" i was way off
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: popeshawnpaul on July 05, 2009, 08:57:13 PM: I would have guessed 39" and 15.5" bases. Hard to tell from that photo though... Nice ram videoman.
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: coachcw on July 06, 2009, 06:54:21 AM: I went over to clemans sat night . spotted a group of sheep near dark probably 35 head . went in sunday circling around them spotted five rams in the next canyon over two looked nice at 800 yards ? when I came back around the sheep had moved to the opposite side of the canyon . came around a little cut and had three more rams at 35 yards they ran right out in front of me and stopped , pulled off my pack to get my camera 300mm lens wouldn't focus . would have been an easy bow kill , one of the rams had a collar on . Do any of you know how many collared rams are in there? I just scratched the area and saw 24-26 rams in five hours , a guy could get addicted to this . does any one know the best way in from the hwy ? Thanks guys Coach. ps my pictures turned out terrible , I need to regroup on the camera . my video camera got bumped on in my pack and all my spare batteries were in my truck .
Title: Re: Cali records
Post by: bearpaw on July 27, 2009, 10:22:31 PM: It's been a long time back, but when I hunted clemans there was no road up the southeast side. I spotted from the naches fruit stand parking lots along the highway for three days until I found the ram I wanted to go after. Then I just went to an orchard along the base and got permission to park and walk in after them. The people were nice that I talked to and had no problem with me parking and hiking on up from there. Might be a road there today, but back then there was none and I doubt it has changed.

All the best rams I saw were up the southeast slopes above naches where no one else wanted to hike in. As you know by now there are easy access sheep on Clemens but I never seen a good ram in the easy access area.
Good Luck