Post by: HUNT on July 10, 2009, 02:53:26 PM
Post by: stumprat on July 10, 2009, 03:01:55 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on July 10, 2009, 03:04:38 PM
As I got older I better understood what a terribly strenuous time that is for a bull. If I stopped then I might just play a small part in his continued survival and continuance of his gene pool.
I just go listen and watch from a distance now days. To me, it's just as much fun.
Post by: elkaholic on July 10, 2009, 03:22:48 PM
Post by: HUNT on July 10, 2009, 03:53:03 PM
pluses and minuses.
Post by: 6x6in6 on July 10, 2009, 03:59:03 PM
If you suspect the presence of a someone on the hunt then back away.
Post by: rasbo on July 10, 2009, 04:01:54 PM
Post by: WAPITIHUNTER on July 10, 2009, 04:20:35 PM
Also you have a good chance at bugling in a hunter and getting and arrow or 500 grain lead musket slug through your belly.
I would not feel all that sorry for the person. It is pretty freaking stupid if you ask me. Why not go bugle them in the National Parks etc. where hunting is not allowed.
Scenario. An avid bow hunter hears all the elk calling and sneaks in down wind undetected. He see's the giant bull that you just called in to 10 yards. You are obscured from his vision in a nasty clump of brush.
He draws back on the bull from 45 yards out. You are starting to get a little worried this bull is going to step on you so you stand up and step out of the brush so the bull will see you. Granted you have been so into taking all these pictures that you are oblivious to what is going on behind you.
As you stand up and step over the hunter releases his arrow. You have just intercepted a very deadly sharp object somewhere into your body. Maybe it just grazes your arm but you still end up bleeding to death because you are so far from help. Hmmmm. Not possible you say.
Stranger things have and will happen every hunting season.
Post by: jackelope on July 10, 2009, 04:23:47 PM
spot and stalk with your camera...i see no problem with it...but lay off the calls.
:twocents:
Post by: Kain on July 10, 2009, 04:49:07 PM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on July 10, 2009, 05:20:52 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on July 10, 2009, 05:26:47 PM
Post by: TheHunt on July 10, 2009, 05:27:35 PM
I hated the people who were in Arizona prime units calling bulls in to video clip. They have that right but the Game and Fish people would make them show all sorts of crap empty their bags all sorts of crap to make it painful to do that during the rut. I think they did not care when hunters were not in the field but gave greif when archery hunters were in the field.
Just my opinion...
Post by: jackelope on July 10, 2009, 05:31:56 PM
National parks is a great idea. Being an archery elk hunter on the west side I would prefer you not do it but I dont own the animals or the woods. Any chance you could tag along and take picture with a hunter? He might need a good caller. :dunno:
in yellowstone it's illegal to call animals...no calling elk, no howling wolves, etc. not sure if this holds true for all national parks but...
Quote
Also you might want to consider the legal aspects, hunting without a tag for instance....according to the definition: ANY effort to kill,capture,injure,or HARASS a wild animal or wild bird Not just other hunters might have a problem....
are you trying to say calling an animal in for photography purposes is harassing wildlife? i guess then so would be calling in an animal and not shooting it....as in passing...hmmm not sure about your thinking there.
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on July 10, 2009, 05:34:27 PM
Post by: stumprat on July 10, 2009, 05:36:51 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on July 10, 2009, 05:41:11 PM
National parks is a great idea. Being an archery elk hunter on the west side I would prefer you not do it but I dont own the animals or the woods. Any chance you could tag along and take picture with a hunter? He might need a good caller. :dunno:
in yellowstone it's illegal to call animals...no calling elk, no howling wolves, etc. not sure if this holds true for all national parks but...QuoteAlso you might want to consider the legal aspects, hunting without a tag for instance....according to the definition: ANY effort to kill,capture,injure,or HARASS a wild animal or wild bird Not just other hunters might have a problem....
are you trying to say calling an animal in for photography purposes is harassing wildlife? i guess then so would be calling in an animal and not shooting it....as in passing...hmmm not sure about your thinking there.
Legally you can call, pursue, harass,injure,kill etc.. as long as you have the appropriate tag. My thinking is only according to the law, yes calling in an animal IS harassing it , but if you have a tag and are hunting in an open area during an open season you are legal. Calling in an animal (for ANY REASON) during an open season, in an open area is HUNTING, and you need the appropriate tag.
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on July 10, 2009, 06:05:35 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on July 10, 2009, 06:34:45 PM
i bugle up bulls all the time, wether im hunting or not. ive never taken pics but thinkin i might try, but i just got a point and shoot camera :dunno:
Post by: elkspert on July 10, 2009, 06:44:45 PM
Post by: sjhgraysage on July 10, 2009, 06:48:52 PM
How about this!
In units 175 & 178 between Sept 21 and Sept 30 there are no elk hunts going on as near as I can tell from looking at the regs, if you use some common sense it could be possible to call in a bull and do no more than educate the elk about humans sounding like an elk. There are I believe some deer seasons in progress during those dates though.
Post by: colockumelk on July 10, 2009, 07:28:13 PM
BTW if you can call in a Colockum bull then you can call in a bull anywhere because the bull-cow ratio is so far out of wack every bull you see has at least 15 cows with him. Hell 3 year old 5x5's are herd bulls up there.
Post by: RUTNBULL1 on July 10, 2009, 07:29:27 PM
Post by: TheHunt on July 10, 2009, 07:37:32 PM
Hunt,
How about this!
In units 175 & 178 between Sept 21 and Sept 30 there are no elk hunts going on as near as I can tell from looking at the regs, if you use some common sense it could be possible to call in a bull and do no more than educate the elk about humans sounding like an elk. There are I believe some deer seasons in progress during those dates though.
Here is your solution...
Post by: bearpaw on July 10, 2009, 07:50:04 PM
As a courtesy to other hunters I would avoid calling in an area that you see hunters vehicles parked or camps during hunting season, you should also try to avoid a bull when it sounds like another hunter may be working him. Other than that you should feel uninhibited about calling anywhere you wish.
Post by: jackelope on July 10, 2009, 08:39:49 PM
Post by: bugle-em on July 10, 2009, 09:04:16 PM
I am pretty sure you must have a weapon before you can be considered to be hunting. As far as I am concerned you have a right to be in the woods anytime of the year doing anything that is not against the law.well said bearpaw!
As a courtesy to other hunters I would avoid calling in an area that you see hunters vehicles parked or camps during hunting season, you should also try to avoid a bull when it sounds like another hunter may be working him. Other than that you should feel uninhibited about calling anywhere you wish.
Post by: rose-n-arrows on July 10, 2009, 09:28:24 PM
Post by: Huntbear on July 10, 2009, 09:33:01 PM
Post by: funkster on July 11, 2009, 07:49:50 AM
i'd be more concerned with educating bulls to the calls and associating them to people.
spot and stalk with your camera...i see no problem with it...but lay off the calls.
:twocents:
:yeah:
Post by: dave on July 11, 2009, 08:58:28 PM
Post by: bugle-em on July 11, 2009, 11:27:17 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 11, 2009, 11:45:51 PM
Quote
go call in a national park, the park will offer greater chance of a receptive bull, and probably a bigger one.
show me where it's legal to do so...i'd love to give it a go.
Quote
as a east side hunter i can tell you we work hard for our tags
you're from tacoma.
Post by: ShirtGuy77 on July 11, 2009, 11:49:50 PM
Post by: dave on July 11, 2009, 11:52:52 PM
SHOW ME WHERE ITS NOT LEGAL TO CALL AND TAKE PICS OF ANIMALS IN A NATIONAL PARK. AND I SAID I HUNT THE EAST SIDE, I DIDNT SAY I LIVE THERE. SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT.Quotego call in a national park, the park will offer greater chance of a receptive bull, and probably a bigger one.
show me where it's legal to do so...i'd love to give it a go.Quoteas a east side hunter i can tell you we work hard for our tags
you're from tacoma.
Post by: dave on July 12, 2009, 12:11:17 AM
Post by: billythekidrock on July 12, 2009, 06:17:11 AM
go call in a national park,
First of all National Parks are state land and they will even tell you that you are "not in the state of WA anymore, this is Federal Land". Believe me.
Second of all calling in a park can be considered harassment and open you up to a fine.
Post by: dave on July 12, 2009, 10:14:24 AM
Post by: Houndhunter on July 12, 2009, 10:31:46 AM
Post by: jackelope on July 12, 2009, 03:39:16 PM
Quote
Calling to attract wildlife
Bugling to elk, howling to wolves, etc. - is illegal.
from http://www.yellowstonepark.com/MoreToKnow/ParkRegulations.aspx
i'm pretty sure that means it's illegal in yellowstone. i'm not going to search every NPS website to decide where it is or isn't legal.
Dave--my point was you made it sound like you thought that you were special because you worked hard for your tags...not sure why you think that has something to do with being an eastside or a westside hunter.
:dunno: if i read your post wrong i apologize.
Post by: billythekidrock on July 12, 2009, 04:06:45 PM
that may be true but you will be open to the same fine out of the park, if it is harassing in the park then it is harassing out of the park. right...
You are not getting the point. The rules in the park are different from the rules outside of the park.
Post by: HUNT on July 12, 2009, 05:33:33 PM
Post by: RUTNBULL1 on July 12, 2009, 05:35:02 PM
I do it with my brother while out scouting for our general season. The way I see it, it I can take someone not experienced with elk hunting, and let them experience what it is like to call in elk, then maybe they will begin to hunt. It's a win win. With the amount of elk out there, I find it humorous when people say you will "Educate" the bulls. That particular bull, yes, he may think twice next time. But it isn't like he is telling all is buddies to be weary if he happens to hear a bugle or cow call. Come on, aren't we over analyzing this a bit?SH77 first of all kudos to you for taking the time to introduce another individual into the world of hunting, and probably no one better than a sib, and enjoying the time together. Has it ever crossed your mind that the bull that you called in before the season, just may be the bull of a lifetime or even a bull that you would love to harvest during your upcoming season that was maybe just hours or days away from opening day. You can do alot of sucessful scouting without draging out the old Primos tabernalce and telling the world hear I am, and don't think that the bull that you called in was the only one bull that came into your call, not all bulls come screaming, and I'm sure a few have came in silent and noticed Brad Ferris and Will wanabe over in the brush playing the plastic flute. I suggest :twocents: possibly let him experience that great experience of a called in bull during the season, and just maybe you or him harvesting that bull, wouldn't that be a two for one experience. :dunno: Trust me, I have been at this game of calling and elk hunting for along time and I have witnessed some situations that you wouldn't believe. Education of bulls by calling from the road has been on going problem for years. I have dove off down into a drainage into the quiet and still of the morning with a bull screaming below, have stalked within his zone waiting, and hundreds of feet above you can hear in the still of the crisp morning air the dreaded road hunter or just maybe the inexperienced, get out and start bugling down into the drainage below,and yeah the bull that was near me shut up and moved off just slightly until about twenty or so minutes after the truck had started his engine and drove off, then he bugled by himself but in much more mellow tone, this bull has now been EDUCATED for the year and he was never called into range. So keeping this in mind you don't have to call them in close to educate them. And for this reason thats why I personaly hunt many miles away from easy access due to so many people intrigued by calling from roads and excessively but not all people can fortunately get back into the woods that far, so shouldn't we respect them for the type of hunt they are going to partake within and not ruin it for them.
Post by: dave on July 12, 2009, 06:28:13 PM
QuoteCalling to attract wildlife
Bugling to elk, howling to wolves, etc. - is illegal.
from http://www.yellowstonepark.com/MoreToKnow/ParkRegulations.aspx
i'm pretty sure that means it's illegal in yellowstone. i'm not going to search every NPS website to decide where it is or isn't legal.
Dave--my point was you made it sound like you thought that you were special because you worked hard for your tags...not sure why you think that has something to do with being an eastside or a westside hunter.
:dunno: if i read your post wrong i apologize.
what i meant is we only get a bull tag every 5-10 years, and 2 weeks to seal the deal, we need as many cards in our favor as we can thats all. and calling to animals in the woods without a tag is harassing and also illegal.
Post by: bugle-em on July 12, 2009, 09:08:52 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 12, 2009, 09:10:42 PM
i have never done it and probably never will....just to add to my earlier posts re: this topic.
Post by: Branden on July 12, 2009, 09:12:53 PM
Post by: RUTNBULL1 on July 12, 2009, 09:19:21 PM
I would be seriously pissed if somebody came along just practicing and screwed up a bull I was hunting.It's great to see other people have some common sense with this post. :)
Post by: bugle-em on July 12, 2009, 09:34:26 PM
Post by: ShirtGuy77 on July 12, 2009, 10:35:55 PM
I do it with my brother while out scouting for our general season. The way I see it, it I can take someone not experienced with elk hunting, and let them experience what it is like to call in elk, then maybe they will begin to hunt. It's a win win. With the amount of elk out there, I find it humorous when people say you will "Educate" the bulls. That particular bull, yes, he may think twice next time. But it isn't like he is telling all is buddies to be weary if he happens to hear a bugle or cow call. Come on, aren't we over analyzing this a bit?SH77 first of all kudos to you for taking the time to introduce another individual into the world of hunting, and probably no one better than a sib, and enjoying the time together. Has it ever crossed your mind that the bull that you called in before the season, just may be the bull of a lifetime or even a bull that you would love to harvest during your upcoming season that was maybe just hours or days away from opening day. You can do alot of sucessful scouting without draging out the old Primos tabernalce and telling the world hear I am, and don't think that the bull that you called in was the only one bull that came into your call, not all bulls come screaming, and I'm sure a few have came in silent and noticed Brad Ferris and Will wanabe over in the brush playing the plastic flute. I suggest :twocents: possibly let him experience that great experience of a called in bull during the season, and just maybe you or him harvesting that bull, wouldn't that be a two for one experience. :dunno: Trust me, I have been at this game of calling and elk hunting for along time and I have witnessed some situations that you wouldn't believe. Education of bulls by calling from the road has been on going problem for years. I have dove off down into a drainage into the quiet and still of the morning with a bull screaming below, have stalked within his zone waiting, and hundreds of feet above you can hear in the still of the crisp morning air the dreaded road hunter or just maybe the inexperienced, get out and start bugling down into the drainage below,and yeah the bull that was near me shut up and moved off just slightly until about twenty or so minutes after the truck had started his engine and drove off, then he bugled by himself but in much more mellow tone, this bull has now been EDUCATED for the year and he was never called into range. So keeping this in mind you don't have to call them in close to educate them. And for this reason thats why I personaly hunt many miles away from easy access due to so many people intrigued by calling from roads and excessively but not all people can fortunately get back into the woods that far, so shouldn't we respect them for the type of hunt they are going to partake within and not ruin it for them.
My apologies Mossback, I should have clarified a little more. Where we choose to bugle bulls is in an area that does not currently have a season going on. In fact, there isn't an archery season that I know of. I wouldn't go in for practice while others are hunting. We choose to do it in an area where we hunt during the general rifle 2 months after our scouting trip. For us, it's the enjoyment of getting out and seeing what animals are in the area at that particular time, and to get us excited for our hunt.
If there was a possibility of screwing up another hunters opportunity, we wouldn't do it. And we don't bugle from the road :)
Post by: bugle-em on July 13, 2009, 12:38:11 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on July 13, 2009, 06:43:45 AM
Public land elk hunting is supposed to be hard. Even with that oh-so special tag, we should expect to work hard to get a few miles off the legal road access, and if successful bust hump, either solo or with a buddy or two, to get that meat, cape and rack back to civilization. If you're not up for that, hire a packer for a drop camp. If that is still too much, and you need to hunt close to vehicle-accessible open roads, maybe you should set your sights lower and be thankful for the better opportunity to kill an elk, period. Or take up dove hunting during the elk rut.
Post by: whacker1 on July 13, 2009, 07:41:21 AM
If the animals are active and in the same area as you are - there should be no need to call in order to locate, get close, and take pictures. The elk will be doing that on their own. Yes it would be more fun to call them in, but many hunters gravitate toward the elk and minimize the amount of calling until they get very close. Scouting and photography would be the same as you are trying to stalk in close for the great shot or experience.
lots of different techniques out there, lots of different terrain requiring different methods... I have stalked animals during the rut, and done some limited calling, but only when I have carried an archery tag.
I do know several people that go out and call that are non-hunters, as they are just out for the experience. I think they have the right to do so, unless the game laws and or state laws dictate it as harrassment.
Post by: BLUEBULLS on July 13, 2009, 07:42:42 AM
It's a great way to enjoy OUR elk, be careful doing it and have fun.
If you have a big bull tag, do your scouting to get away from other people or deal with like we did.
Post by: boneaddict on July 13, 2009, 08:25:21 AM
Post by: HUNT on July 13, 2009, 08:33:52 AM
Post by: jackelope on July 13, 2009, 09:33:17 AM
Quote
No. There are no regulations regarding such activity.
Thank you,
WDFW, Enforcement Program
360-902-2936
FAX: 360-902-2155
Poaching hotline 1-877-933-9847
WDFW website: http://wdfw.wa.gov/
Enforcement website: http://wdfw.wa.gov/enf/enforce.htm
Report a Poacher (TIP): http://wdfw.wa.gov/enf/poaching.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: -
Sent: Mon 7/13/2009 7:51 AM
To: Enforcement Office (DFW)
Subject: harassment
good day--
is there anything illegal about calling an elk in or any other animal solely for the purpose of photography? specifically, without a hunting license in my pocket.
thank you for your time.
Post by: bugle-em on July 13, 2009, 05:31:13 PM
Post by: RUTNBULL1 on July 13, 2009, 06:42:03 PM
No problem its great you and your brother can experience the outdoors together. And you are trying to be considerate of other hunters. :PI do it with my brother while out scouting for our general season. The way I see it, it I can take someone not experienced with elk hunting, and let them experience what it is like to call in elk, then maybe they will begin to hunt. It's a win win. With the amount of elk out there, I find it humorous when people say you will "Educate" the bulls. That particular bull, yes, he may think twice next time. But it isn't like he is telling all is buddies to be weary if he happens to hear a bugle or cow call. Come on, aren't we over analyzing this a bit?SH77 first of all kudos to you for taking the time to introduce another individual into the world of hunting, and probably no one better than a sib, and enjoying the time together. Has it ever crossed your mind that the bull that you called in before the season, just may be the bull of a lifetime or even a bull that you would love to harvest during your upcoming season that was maybe just hours or days away from opening day. You can do alot of sucessful scouting without draging out the old Primos tabernalce and telling the world hear I am, and don't think that the bull that you called in was the only one bull that came into your call, not all bulls come screaming, and I'm sure a few have came in silent and noticed Brad Ferris and Will wanabe over in the brush playing the plastic flute. I suggest :twocents: possibly let him experience that great experience of a called in bull during the season, and just maybe you or him harvesting that bull, wouldn't that be a two for one experience. :dunno: Trust me, I have been at this game of calling and elk hunting for along time and I have witnessed some situations that you wouldn't believe. Education of bulls by calling from the road has been on going problem for years. I have dove off down into a drainage into the quiet and still of the morning with a bull screaming below, have stalked within his zone waiting, and hundreds of feet above you can hear in the still of the crisp morning air the dreaded road hunter or just maybe the inexperienced, get out and start bugling down into the drainage below,and yeah the bull that was near me shut up and moved off just slightly until about twenty or so minutes after the truck had started his engine and drove off, then he bugled by himself but in much more mellow tone, this bull has now been EDUCATED for the year and he was never called into range. So keeping this in mind you don't have to call them in close to educate them. And for this reason thats why I personaly hunt many miles away from easy access due to so many people intrigued by calling from roads and excessively but not all people can fortunately get back into the woods that far, so shouldn't we respect them for the type of hunt they are going to partake within and not ruin it for them.
My apologies Mossback, I should have clarified a little more. Where we choose to bugle bulls is in an area that does not currently have a season going on. In fact, there isn't an archery season that I know of. I wouldn't go in for practice while others are hunting. We choose to do it in an area where we hunt during the general rifle 2 months after our scouting trip. For us, it's the enjoyment of getting out and seeing what animals are in the area at that particular time, and to get us excited for our hunt.
If there was a possibility of screwing up another hunters opportunity, we wouldn't do it. And we don't bugle from the road :)
Post by: rosscrazyelk on July 13, 2009, 07:02:25 PM
Post by: RUTNBULL1 on July 13, 2009, 08:27:53 PM