Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: Elkslayer on August 12, 2009, 11:10:19 PM

Title: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: Elkslayer on August 12, 2009, 11:10:19 PM: Ok this might be a stupid question! What is the deal with this unit, I have never been down there but if this is National Forest Land, as I have been told. How can they keep people out of there? Also are you allowed in there before the season to scout and do you have to be a permit holder to go in and scout?
Reason I am asking is because I have a budy that drew a tag and was thinking of going down and scouting it out with him.
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: SHANE(WA) on August 13, 2009, 05:06:08 AM: He is referring to the only unit I know to be "watershed" in the blue mt's. I dont know what the deal is with that area, i too have wondered the same questions, why is it so difficult to get in and all the damn restrictions when hunting.
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: BLUEBULLS on August 13, 2009, 06:06:29 AM: I think the guys in wallawalla don't want you pissin in their water :dunno:
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: HUNT on August 13, 2009, 06:15:37 AM: :yeah:
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: SHANE(WA) on August 13, 2009, 06:16:22 AM: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: bear on August 13, 2009, 06:41:51 AM: I have a friend that drew the tag as well. Basically, not allowed to go in and scout. Once the hunt starts, you have to walk in and can only take one non tag holder with you when you hunt. Can take horses in only to pack out an elk, but I think that you have to pack out any horse crap. I think that's pretty accurate, but I'm not 100% sure. Bear
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: BLUEBULLS on August 13, 2009, 07:33:02 AM: Elk/deer piss must taste better than man' :chuckle:

I just wish they'd give a few deer tags in there.
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: HUNT on August 13, 2009, 08:10:47 AM: There's no elk or deer in there. What are you, crazy? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: BOHNTR on August 13, 2009, 12:25:43 PM: Have lived here in the Walla Walla valley most of my life, it is the City's water source, and there has always been a restriction on access, they have a full time shed rider that patrols the area, the fine is pretty steep if you get caught in there, most of the unit can be glassed from the edge, with out having to go in. I have no idea who would want to unless you are actually hunting steeeeeeeeeep !!!.
But then again that is why it is such a popular draw no one can go in there but once a year during elk season, wait till you see some of the mule deer in there !, you'll wet your self.
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: mtncook on August 13, 2009, 01:26:09 PM: Most of the comments are correct, however no one can go in without a permit until you are actually packing meat. The hunter can take 1 person to help pack meat. Until you have an animal down you are on your own. I have been trying to get a permit to pack in there since the other guy gave it up. Insurance in our business is expensive, I could keep a packer and mules busy there.I'm thinking if the FS had enough calls asking for some help they may reconsider issuing a permit. The Forest Service is not wanting to reissue the permit, so guys you are on your own. I have been in there with mules in the past. Now the person that regularly patrols walks, so the trails are not kept open as they once were. The trail up from the water masters residence crosses mill creek 8 times. The creek is good sized can be around 20 feet wide, but not real deep. Hard to tell when riding across. At the time when I was there several of the crossings had walk across logs, not sure now. We did see alot of heavy duty black garbage bags that the walkers pulled on to cross the creek. The mule deer there are really nice. You can see a good deal from the borders but be sure you know the State line boundry, good access from Green Peak, if you choose to come in the bottom you are in Oregon for a fair distance. You are not to spend the night in there either, but that is hard to patrol. Last year my cell phone had several messages as the WDFG gave my number to some guys that were not physical to get the job done, they were risking wasting the meat and the Game agent was on them. Don't know how it turned out. Good Luck.

mtncook www.westernlifeoutfitters.com
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: sjhgraysage on August 13, 2009, 01:58:06 PM: mtncook,
Thanks for the info update. The deal about not being inthere unless you have a permit or are helping pack meat is somewhat new as years ago you could go in with the permit holder prior to killing an elk.
Where would we send comments to for the FS to consider issueing a new permit??
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: HUNT on August 13, 2009, 02:07:17 PM: Those permits are issued by the City of Walla Walla from what I've been told. I don't think you have been able to take someone with you before the kill for quite a while. At least 10 years for sure. The main trail from the bottom has been cleared up about 7 miles or so. They also cleared the trail on the north side and the trail that runs paradise ridge. As far as I know- after I kill an animal I can hire a packer to some pack it out for me as long as I am with him.
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: westsideoutdoorsman on August 13, 2009, 03:53:09 PM: lots of good info, thanks for posing.
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: Elkslayer on August 13, 2009, 05:29:37 PM: Thanks for the info guys! I guess he is on his own until packing time. I still dont see how they can keep people out of there legally since this is public land. I can understand them wanting to protect the water source. My buddy said that one of the rules is that you have to drag your elk either 100ft or 100yds from any stream before you can gut and clean it.
I think it would make more sense to have a buddy with you during the hunt just for safety reasons if nothing else.
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: bear on August 13, 2009, 08:54:21 PM: Soooo, by yourself without any help you have to drag the whole elk 100 ft or yards away from a stream. And being that streams are in the bottom of the canyon, that means you have to drag it uphill. Riiiiiiiiggggghhhhht
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: mtncook on August 14, 2009, 07:43:21 AM: Hunt

Good Luck on your hunt! However you will NOT find a legal packer operating there. The FS would be the issuing agency for special use permits. People with hunting permits like yourself can enter with horses and mules but like you said. Not sure now but you used to be able to ride in hunt then back out
for the day. There may be a new restriction on stock only there for packing. There could be someone operating there but they will not have the a permit, with a permit comes insurance which is for your protection. Good to know they have opened the trails.

If someone would want to contact the FS, the district officer for the watershed is Walla Walla Ranger District. I'l get the regular phone number. Thanks to those who call.

mtncook
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: HUNT on August 14, 2009, 07:50:21 AM: Mtn Cook

So you are saying that I can't hire you to go in with me on my permit, with your stock, to pack out my elk?

I don't know for sure. I am just going on conversations that I had with the caretaker of the watershed who works for the city of Walla Walla.

I haven't received my packet yet explaining all the rules for this year. He did tell me that there may be some changes this year in the rules.
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: sjhgraysage on August 14, 2009, 02:35:45 PM: I believe what mtncook is saying is that his use permit for the Umatilla Forest does not cover that portion of the national forest, the Mill Creek Watershed (Walla Walla's municipal water supply). He has stated in other posts that he is the only FS permit holder for the Wenaha and Tucannon GMUs.
Which means that if you contract (pay) someone else to pack you, your gear, or your meat in those areas you have made a transaction with someone that is not allowed to conduct business on FS lands.
I'm sure that he will come back on and clarify that.
This / these restrictions are some of the reason(s) I don't apply for that hunt any more.
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: mtncook on August 14, 2009, 03:19:26 PM: Here it is guys.

I'm permitted for parts of Wenaha East/West and Tucannon, not the only permittee but the only one with those 3 units. Hunt,, I cannot be hired to pack for you. You cannot legally pay anyone for services rendered on USFS land that does not have a special use permit. The Walla Walla Ranger District number is 509-522-6290 the special use permit person is Jeff Bloom. I would suggest you express the need for a licensed/permitted packer to operate during that short 9 day season. My insurance would allow me to operate there. For someone to only operate there the insurance premium could be between 2 and 3 thousand. That is why the guy gave it up. The FS requires $500,000 liability I carry $1,000,000 as the premium is not much more. I understand the FS having some non commercial units like Dayton and the Western part of Wenaha West but the Watershed needs to be handled differently with the limited access restrictions they have. The 100 foot from water gut deal should not be a real problem for you guys. It is a long ways to the creek where most of you will find elk. Good Luck Guys

mtncook
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: HUNT on August 14, 2009, 03:38:41 PM: Good to know... Thanks for the info . I guess I need to call in some favors and have some of my friends come down and pack out. Thanks mtncook for the info....
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: mtncook on August 14, 2009, 04:01:15 PM: Hunt

Give me a call toll free 877-251-8535

You will have to take your friends in one at a time, unless they have changed it. That is the tough part of the watershed too many rules.

mtncook
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: mtncook on August 26, 2009, 07:01:22 AM: New rules in the watershed. I guy called last night wanting me to pack his meat. He just received a letter that the new deal is you can have a non gun toting companion the whole time, and you can take 3 people with you to pack meat after the kill. That is new this year. am working on getting a copy of the letter.
Title: Re: Question on Watershed Unit?
Post by: HUNT on August 26, 2009, 01:28:58 PM: I can confirm that this is the case. I got the letter.