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Big Game Hunting => Bow Hunting => Topic started by: cle elum bowhunter on August 18, 2009, 10:23:17 PM

Title: HELP! Whisker biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight(modified)
Post by: cle elum bowhunter on August 18, 2009, 10:23:17 PM: Thought I had this figured out, sorry if this has been asked before. My biscuit seems to be somehow leaving a rub mark on my bottom left fletch which after about a dozen shots starts to curl the fletch. Cock vain up, by all appearances I should be clearing the black bristles with the lower fletches, and plenty of clearance on all other parts of riser and other equipment. Shoot one set and all arrows fly good and tight group and then the next, a few will boat-tail and group speads out. Anyone have a problem with the biscuit rubbing and causing the fletches to curl? Shooting 2" blazers with right helical. Been bow hunting since 1984 and never had a problem getting any of my other bows to tune well. Good form, use a sling for open handed shot(no bow torque) and use a release. Bow is new, set up at AS&J archery, been back and had everything looked over. Right now my confidence with the new bow is shot to hell and I already sold the old bow or I would think about using it this year. Peaches Bull tag in hand and I want know where my arrows are going. Help please.
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: nwhunter on August 18, 2009, 10:29:13 PM: My advise is get rid of the whisker biscuit and get a drop away rest which is the only way to completely eliminate fletching contact. You have a great tag but you have to be able to have confidence in your bow setup and be able to make the shot. I would get to a bowshop and change the rest and get dialed in quick, three weeks and counting. nwhunter
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: huntnphool on August 18, 2009, 10:29:45 PM: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,19775.0.html
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: coldsteel3d on August 18, 2009, 10:32:44 PM: Ditch the whisker bisquit, they are for women and children. :chuckle: Go with a trophy taker full containment if you are worried about the arrow falling of your shelf.
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: BLKBEARKLR on August 18, 2009, 10:35:28 PM: Quote from: nwhunter on August 18, 2009, 10:29:13 PM
My advise is get rid of the whisker biscuit and get a drop away rest which is the only way to completely eliminate fletching contact. You have a great tag but you have to be able to have confidence in your bow setup and be able to make the shot. I would get to a bowshop and change the rest and get dialed in quick, three weeks and counting. nwhunter

:yeah:
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: Turkeyman on August 18, 2009, 11:14:58 PM: Ditch the whisker bisquit, they are for women and children. Go with a trophy taker full containment if you are worried about the arrow falling of your shelf.

:yeah:
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: Sneaky on August 18, 2009, 11:20:45 PM: A buddy of mine bought some arrows with 2" blazer vanes that are made of material that isn't soft enough to pass through the biscuit unfettered. his groups were all over the place til he picked up some bemans with 4" fletchings.
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: bowhunterforever on August 19, 2009, 12:31:38 AM: Whisker biscuit sucks! :tdown: Get a drop away rest. :twocents:
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: rooselk on August 19, 2009, 02:04:23 AM: Go to just about any archery site and you'll find a very vocal minority who will tell you to go get rid of the Biscuit and buy a drop away rest. My answer to that is always the same: I'll get rid of the Whisker Biscuit when you throw the training wheels away and get a bow where the arrow sits on the shelf.

Your Whisker Biscuit is fine, and it really excells for hunting. It probably just needs some adjustment. You might try Blazer vanes which, since they are stiffer, are a perfect match for the Whisker Biscuit. A little discoloration on the vanes doesn't necessarily mean that something is wrong. I'd say that you should take your bow to your local pro shop and let them about your concerns. Chances are that they'll be able to get the problem, if any, straightened out very quickly.
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: PolarBear on August 19, 2009, 05:44:09 AM: Quote from: Turkeyman on August 18, 2009, 11:14:58 PM
Ditch the whisker bisquit, they are for women and children. Go with a trophy taker full containment if you are worried about the arrow falling of your shelf.

:yeah:
:yeah:
I bought 2 whisker biscuits at Wally world in Yelm for $5 (normally $39). They were blowing them out after season. I put one on my 9 year old daughter's bow and sold the other for $25. It works fine for her but I would never use one if you actually practice a lot with arrows that you are going to hunt with. It tweaks the fletchings on her little arrows and they are hard as a rock.
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 19, 2009, 08:37:29 AM: Quote from: rooselk on August 19, 2009, 02:04:23 AM
Go to just about any archery site and you'll find a very vocal minority who will tell you to go get rid of the Biscuit and buy a drop away rest. My answer to that is always the same: I'll get rid of the Whisker Biscuit when you throw the training wheels away and get a bow where the arrow sits on the shelf.

Your Whisker Biscuit is fine, and it really excells for hunting. It probably just needs some adjustment. You might try Blazer vanes which, since they are stiffer, are a perfect match for the Whisker Biscuit. A little discoloration on the vanes doesn't necessarily mean that something is wrong. I'd say that you should take your bow to your local pro shop and let them about your concerns. Chances are that they'll be able to get the problem, if any, straightened out very quickly.

what does a whisker biscuit have to do with switching to a longbow or recurve?
get a good fall away rest, have it installed correctly and shoot a big ol bull!!!
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: Todd_ID on August 19, 2009, 09:09:19 AM: My :twocents: is that there is nothing wrong with using a biscuit rest for hunting. I choose to use a drop away, but I wouldn't push that on someone who has a biscuit. Get the fletch that is curling straightened back out by dipping it in near-boiling water or using a blow dryer. Then try rotating the nock in a manner that will turn the fletch on each arrow that is hitting maybe 1/32 of a turn farther away from the stiff bristles on the bottom (i.e., the cock vane will now be canted off to the side instead of dead vertical). Shoot a dozen times and see if it's still curling. Helical fletched Blazers will spin just enough to make contact from the release of the string to the rest, and that could be your problem. If you're shooting good clean arrows that don't wobble in flight and can hit what you want with a broadhead on your first few shots, then I'd say you're ready to hunt. If your first arrow is as erratic as your 30th, then you've got a tuning issue that moving the rest in tiny increments should fix. Blazers and biscuits are not exactly the best combination, but it can work once you've got it tuned well.
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: SpokaneSlayer on August 19, 2009, 09:22:03 AM: I don't see anything wrong with using a WB. I have one and use 2" Blazers. The only fletching damage that has happened was when I ripped the trailing edge of one of the vanes because I hit the arrow with another. Plus, I now have to get some more nocks from breaking them. If it doesn't work well with your set up, then by all means, swap it out for a fall away. Still doesn't make the WB a bad product though. :twocents:
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: rooselk on August 19, 2009, 10:45:00 AM: Quote from: BULLBLASTER on August 19, 2009, 08:37:29 AM
what does a whisker biscuit have to do with switching to a longbow or recurve?
get a good fall away rest, have it installed correctly and shoot a big ol bull!!!

Not a thing...just as telling someone to switch to a drop away isn't relevant when they ask a specific question about their Whisker Biscuit. If a drop away rest works for you, that's all fine and good. But for others, and especially for those who's hunting style is spot & stalk or still-hunting, the Whisker Biscuit is also fine and good.
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: Special T on August 19, 2009, 11:08:17 AM: tod_ID said it. I had a WB and i had all kinds of problems. I had 4in helicals and it messed my groups up. use smaller 2in sturdy straight fletches and that will help a ton... I switched to a drop away and my groups got smaller... If i was you i'd refletch 6 of yer arrows and see how they shoot. Low buck and won't monkey up yer gear right before the season :twocents:
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: andrew_12gauge on August 19, 2009, 04:43:13 PM: Quote from: nwhunter on August 18, 2009, 10:29:13 PM
My advise is get rid of the whisker biscuit and get a drop away rest which is the only way to completely eliminate fletching contact. You have a great tag but you have to be able to have confidence in your bow setup and be able to make the shot. I would get to a bowshop and change the rest and get dialed in quick, three weeks and counting. nwhunter

octane hostage is not a drop away but has 100 percent fletch clearance, 3 contact points on the arrow with bristles and the rest is wide open, just another option if the whisker biscuit doesnt work out and you dont wanna get into the fall aways
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: rosscrazyelk on August 19, 2009, 06:26:28 PM: I know everyone has their own opinions on what to do. But i have a whisker biscuit and I love it. I have had one for 5 years now. There is a blazer vain that is made just for the WB. I have never had a problem with the vanes bending and my grouping is fine. Just the other day at the range a guy was giving me hell about it. that is until at 80 yards all 4 of my arrows were touching. Shut him up in a hurry :)
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: popeshawnpaul on August 19, 2009, 06:51:55 PM: You just used the wrong fletching with it Special T. It's made for a shorter non helical fletch. Soft plastic vanes also don't work well. As stated above, the Blazer 2" vane is made just for the WB. You don't put mud tires on a Porche...
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: Da stump on August 19, 2009, 09:28:05 PM: Hey I am a redneck, i would put mud tires on a porche. As for the wisker biscuit I don't like them, tried them for a few years but they tore up fletchings and the wiskers in the biscuit. Look for a good quality drop away that has high sides to help keep your arrow in place. Walk, stoop, shot and sit with it to get used to it before season. :hello:
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: EastWaViking on August 19, 2009, 09:36:27 PM: Quote from: coldsteel3d on August 18, 2009, 10:32:44 PM
Ditch the whisker bisquit, they are for women and children. :chuckle: Go with a trophy taker full containment if you are worried about the arrow falling of your shelf.

Ditto. A guy told me he was at a archery convention and the WB rep told him his bow would shoot just as fast with the WB as with his current fall away. They bet dinner on it. 38 FPS slower, the guy had a great free dinner.
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: bow4elk on August 19, 2009, 09:47:34 PM: Guys, guys, guys...it's not as simple as "this worked for me" or "get XYZ because..."

First, are you shooting fingers or a release? Have you checked your nock point and cam timing? Are you arrows the correct spine for your draw length/bow weight? Have you checked your centershot? Are you shooting with a bow sling to avoid grabbing the bow grip upon release? Are you sure you don't do this common bad habit?

Everyone is different and what works for you may not work or be appropriate for the next guy. As someone mentioned, get yourself into a pro shop or find a local resource to help you get dialed in. This is no time for confidence issues stemming from real tuning issues. And you're doing the right thing by asking for help now. PM me if you want some shooting coaching help.

Check these things (above) in addition to some minor adjustments with your WB windage before discounting this product. No rest is worth a hoot if the whole system - you, your form, the bow, the arrows, etc. are in sync and working as a well oiled machine.

:twocents:
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: SHANE(WA) on August 19, 2009, 10:45:42 PM: Go to a shoot, see how many competitive archers are shooting WB :chuckle:
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: dreamingbig on August 19, 2009, 11:27:12 PM: Yep, hurry and ditch the WB; in fact, take it off right now. I recommend the Trophy Taker Shakey Hunter; it is a very good rest and you could have it set up and shooting great in less than an hour.
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: runniNgunnin on August 19, 2009, 11:43:52 PM: put this thing on your bow, i just bought my diamond bow and i love it...
http://www.gandermountain.com/assets/images/products/medium/401858_M1.jpg
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: let.it.fly on August 20, 2009, 08:43:30 AM: i was shooting a WB for awhile but i also noticed that my fletcing was getting ripped up so i switched, i dont remember the name but i love my new rest, it has a single vertical post with a plastic rest, then two arms that come down from the top at a 45 degree angle with wiskers on it. 100% vane clearance and not to expensive. very quite as well. i like drop aways but with any mechanicle there is a chance for failure. my :twocents:
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: jstone on August 20, 2009, 09:22:51 AM: Drop aways are the best, If you want to use your WB try feathers. More forgiving
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: passing-thru on August 20, 2009, 09:30:47 AM: Many of my partners have had similar problems, when I got new bow this year I had the NAP 360 rest put on and have had no problems, It still contans arrow but has 0 fletching contact..Good Luck...Great Tag by the way :drool:
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: passing-thru on August 20, 2009, 09:35:31 AM: They are around $40 I think http://www.huntersfriend.com/arrow-rests-archery/nap-quiktune-360-rest.htm
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: Intruder on August 20, 2009, 09:41:07 AM: Sorry... no first hand experience w/ a WB. I would agree with a lot of the other posts on here though and recommend a fall away if you can afford the extra $ to spend on it.
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: Special T on August 20, 2009, 10:07:03 AM: popeshawnpaul, you are right on the fletchings. I think WB are great for hunting when tuned, I had some bad info also.. My Wif uses the octane.... Mud tires do belong on my kind of porche, but i'm molre of a mud flinging Lambo guy
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: huntnphool on August 20, 2009, 10:19:31 AM: Bow4elk is right, there are a whole bunch of variables and if one is off it could be affecting it. On my daughters bow I trimmed a couple rows right where each vane went through, problem solved. :twocents:
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: batsquatch on August 20, 2009, 10:41:49 AM: Quote from: runniNgunnin on August 19, 2009, 11:43:52 PM
put this thing on your bow, i just bought my diamond bow and i love it...
http://www.gandermountain.com/assets/images/products/medium/401858_M1.jpg
ya this is a good rest i have it on my mathews i havent had a problem, shoots great no contact.
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: elkman11032 on August 20, 2009, 01:41:22 PM: ditch the bitch and go with a trophy taker fall away!! just my :twocents:

also the wisker buscuit will make each and every arrow you fling fly different, it will not help you be consistent!!!! = no groups= no dead animals

elkman
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: rosscrazyelk on August 20, 2009, 02:36:13 PM: Quote
it will not help you be consistent!!!! = no groups= no dead animals

Did you not read my post? Tell me if this deer does not look dead to you.
That was at 70 yards..
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: huntnphool on August 20, 2009, 02:45:11 PM: Yep, dead deer Ross, toad of a buck too :tup:
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: runniNgunnin on August 20, 2009, 02:51:30 PM: thats a brute of a spike too.... :chuckle:
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: coachcw on August 20, 2009, 04:53:51 PM: I like simple when it comes to rests , i had a fall away fail and cost me a nice buck last year , i shoot a bisket with four fletch blazers and they fly like darts. make sure that bow papers well . If you wanna fall away let me know I have a pile of them. super doodles shoot good too I still have a couple of them . Coach
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: rooselk on August 20, 2009, 10:00:13 PM: There have been plenty of tests on the Whisker Biscuit regarding the loss of speed issue. On average the WB loses only 2-3 fps, which is negligible.

Here's a rule of thumb you need to always remember about archery message boards: If you ask a question about a Mathews you're going to get told to buy a Hoyt or Bowtech (and vise versa). Ask about buying a Ford pick up truck for hunting and you'll be told to buy a Chevy or Dodge. Same thing applies to questions about the Whisker Biscuit. There's never any shortage of guys out there willing to step forward to tell you that unless you use what they do then you're using lesser equipment.
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: Ray on August 20, 2009, 10:06:34 PM: Quote from: huntnphool on August 20, 2009, 02:45:11 PM
Yep, dead deer Ross, toad of a buck too :tup:

I don't know anything about arrow rests other than wood and leather or bare handed but that damn buck is sweet.
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: huntnphool on August 20, 2009, 10:08:20 PM: Nice looking rig Special T, to pretty to take off road though.
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: runniNgunnin on August 20, 2009, 11:22:13 PM: Quote from: rooselk on August 20, 2009, 10:00:13 PM
There have been plenty of tests on the Whisker Biscuit regarding the loss of speed issue. On average the WB loses only 2-3 fps, which is negligible.

Here's a rule of thumb you need to always remember about archery message boards: If you ask a question about a Mathews you're going to get told to buy a Hoyt or Bowtech (and vise versa). Ask about buying a Ford pick up truck for hunting and you'll be told to buy a Chevy or Dodge. Same thing applies to questions about the Whisker Biscuit. There's never any shortage of guys out there willing to step forward to tell you that unless you use what they do then you're using lesser equipment.

Agreed, but basicly it comes down to useing the right 2" blazer fletchings for the WB, or using a drop away or WB like set up that doesnt have vein contact..... i think everyone that has posted ont his thread can agree on that??
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: KillBilly on August 21, 2009, 02:04:12 PM: I didn't read every post so someone might have ask this already. Based upon the topic title, I have to ask what the difference between a Whisper biscuit and a Whisker biscuit is. Do you tell secrets to a whisper biscuit? :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: HELP! Whisper biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight
Post by: elkman11032 on August 21, 2009, 09:48:57 PM: yeah hes dead alright.... i guess it really depends on the bow... and you know that as well as I do....
Title: Re: HELP! Whisker biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight(modified)
Post by: cle elum bowhunter on August 21, 2009, 11:39:53 PM: 38fps loss through a biscuit? My Turbohawk is 320 IBO and with my hunting arrows was shooting right at 305fps set at 66 pounds draw weight. I don't buy that. Many thanks to those taking the time to help me out.
Title: Re: HELP! Whisker biscuit damaging fletching, erratic flight(modified)
Post by: 328-archer on August 22, 2009, 07:28:45 PM: Eric,

You are gonna get your bull at 10 yards and the biscuit won't even be a factor. ;)
Randy