Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: bearhunter59 on December 10, 2007, 11:31:14 PM

Title: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: bearhunter59 on December 10, 2007, 11:31:14 PM: You see a bull with a spike and double eyeguards on one side, and a forked horn above the ear and eyeguard on the other side. Would this elk be considered legal in both a spike-only unit, and a three-point minimum unit? It meets the definition for both type units...
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: high country on December 11, 2007, 05:46:52 AM: a spike is a single point. if it has more than a total of one point on one side it is not a spike. you can shoot a branch bull that broke the mainbeam off before the first browtine on one side as that is a single point, but a spike with a 1" sticker on each side could land you in a mess.
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: billythekidrock on December 11, 2007, 05:54:59 AM: Not a spike by definition because of the eyeguards. As for the other side with a fork above the ears it only counts as a 3 pt if the eyeguards meet the size requirement which at this time is one inch. It used to be four inches.
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: GoldTip on December 11, 2007, 07:25:15 AM: Actually I do believe that would be considered legal in both area's if you read the definitions in the regulations. For the spike area it must have a single antler that does not fork above the ear on one side, so your would meet the definition of a spike the way I read the reg. For a three point area the bull must have an eyeguard and a branched antler above the ear on one side, hence your description meets a 3 point minimum as well. Maybe theres a F&G guy on the site who could confirm this.
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: wastickslinger on December 11, 2007, 07:30:45 AM: From the regulations:
"having at least one antler that that has only one antler point above the ear. An animal with a spike on one side is legal in spike only units."

bearhunter59- you are correct. It meets the definition of a spike in a spike unit and a 3 point in a 3 point min unit.

The big debate is that part that states only one antler point above the ear. An eyeguard forks below the ear. Many people have over looked the regulation on this one.
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: robodad on December 11, 2007, 08:45:07 AM: So does that mean that eyeguards do not count as points ever ?? and if they do count how do you determine if it is above the ear, it seams that they are above the ear as they break through the skin on top of the head !! and if it is a spike with two eyeguards below the ear is it still a legal 3 point ?? :dunno:
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: bearhunter59 on December 11, 2007, 08:50:22 AM: Check with the F&G guys...it must fork "above the ears", and all eyeguards fork out of the antler below the tip of the ear, therefore for the definition of a spike, eyeguards don't count. But they do count for a three-poiint minimum unit, if they are longer than an inch.
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: wastickslinger on December 11, 2007, 11:30:44 AM: robodad- they do count as point, in a 3 point minimum area. In a spike only area the point must be a fork above the top of the ear. Thus, an eyeguard, coming off the main bean below the top of the ear, is not counted in a spike only area.

This is actually one of the only things that the game department has done to help protect hunters from being fined for accidents. What I mean by that is, it saves the butt of the person who can visibly see only a spike when the elk is standing there broadside, but after the fact they find out that the ear covered up the 2 " inch point down low. It allows for more room for error I should say. Accidents do happen and those brow points can be though to see if the critter is broadside because of the ears.

I am rambling so I will stop. But I hope you get the picture.
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: billythekidrock on December 11, 2007, 05:12:41 PM: Maybe I am wrong, but the way I understand it a spike with double eyeguards would be illegal.. :dunno:
From the book, "eyeguards are antler points when they are at least one inch long".
So a spike with a single, one inch eyeguard on both sides would be a two point? :dunno:
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: bearhunter59 on December 11, 2007, 05:48:56 PM: BTKR, that definition is for a 3-point minimum. Spike Bull Restriction definition says "...must have at least one antler that has ONLY ONE (emphisis added) antler point above the ear." Doesn't matter how long that eyeguard is, it's below the ear, therefore this spike meets the legal definition "...only one antler point above the ear."

Now let's say we go with your understanding....and we're only talking this one side right now. If it's not a spike, does that mean in your opinion, that it meets the 3-point minimum requirement? Answer is No. The definition and requirement state "...with at least 2 of those antler points above the ear." So, if he doesn't meet the definition for a spike, and he doesn't meet the definition for a 3-point, what is he??? :chuckle: :chuckle: (I'm having fun with this)... :tung:

I beleive my imaginary bull meets both definitions....makes me wonder though what I'd do if I saw a bull like that out in the field for real.... :chuckle: :chuckle: Guess it depends on how late in the season it was and how desperate I am for meat in the freezer.... :chuckle:
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: billythekidrock on December 11, 2007, 06:04:43 PM: Quote from: bearhunter59 on December 11, 2007, 05:48:56 PM
BTKR, that definition is for a 3-point minimum. Spike Bull Restriction definition says "...must have at least one antler that has ONLY ONE (emphisis added) antler point above the ear." Doesn't matter how long that eyeguard is, it's below the ear, therefore this spike meets the legal definition "...only one antler point above the ear."

I read that and looked at the pictures..of course the pictures don't show eyeguards..

Quote
Now let's say we go with your understanding....and we're only talking this one side right now. If it's not a spike, does that mean in your opinion, that it meets the 3-point minimum requirement? Answer is No. The definition and requirement state "...with at least 2 of those antler points above the ear." So, if he doesn't meet the definition for a spike, and he doesn't meet the definition for a 3-point, what is he??? :chuckle: :chuckle: (I'm having fun with this)... :tung:

That makes him lucky to live another year!

Quote
I beleive my imaginary bull meets both definitions....makes me wonder though what I'd do if I saw a bull like that out in the field for real.... :chuckle: :chuckle: Guess it depends on how late in the season it was and how desperate I am for meat in the freezer.... :chuckle:

It is a little clearer for me, but still makes me wonder what a gamie's interpretation would be.
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: ICEMAN on December 11, 2007, 07:38:32 PM: You guys are confusing the crap out of me! So what is this? : :dunno:
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: bearhunter59 on December 11, 2007, 08:00:00 PM: those are pics of a 2x2 that would classify as a spike in the spike only unit....In my opinion...
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: kirkl on December 11, 2007, 08:07:32 PM: bearhunter is right, that would be a legal spike in a spike only unit, guaranteed, better be banging away.
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: billythekidrock on December 12, 2007, 06:32:48 AM: So if I understand correctly..this would qualify as a spike in a spike unit?

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hunt101.com%2Fdata%2F500%2FaUntitled-1.jpg&hash=e1984886313f336c3aba5fed02117828a180df1e)
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: ICEMAN on December 12, 2007, 06:49:09 AM: Nice photoshop job!

You guys are all wrong!

This is my cow to spike conversion kit. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: kirkl on December 12, 2007, 08:13:29 AM: Billy, yes that would qualify as long as they dont branch above the ears.
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: jackelope on December 12, 2007, 08:36:39 AM: what about this bull...this is a wa bull from an any bull unit...
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi79.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj139%2FBAILEYDAD%2FElk2007006.jpg&hash=2ea837efeb5823aae28e469a3800997991ece359)

i blacked out his face cuz i pirated the pic from another site.
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: GoldTip on December 12, 2007, 08:50:29 AM: Jackelope, yep near as I can tell that bull would qualify as a spike in a spike only unit. I actually saw a bull getting checked on year down in the blues that was probably a 320-330 bull, it was being checked by the game warden. It was a nice 6 point on the one side and the other side he had broken the main beam between the eyeguard and second tine. So there was maybe 5" of main beam above the eyeguard on the broken tine. The warden considered that bull a legal spike. Now I'd be damn hesitant to shoot that bull, but the warden called it legal.
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: bearhunter59 on December 12, 2007, 12:29:16 PM: actually the second set of horns is my imaginary elk. The horn on the left qualifies as a spike in a spike only unit, and the horn on the right qualifies as a 3-point in a 3-point min. unit. That sonofagun was dead no matter where he stepped...
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: bearhunter59 on December 12, 2007, 12:34:09 PM: jacks...picture is a 2x4 that qualifies in either unit. The left one forks below the ear, and the rightside browtine is longer than an inch. And "below the ear" means below the tip of the ear, with the ear straight UP, not out to the side... :chuckle:
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on December 12, 2007, 06:10:12 PM: I am pretty sure in the regs it says a fork on the upper half of the main beam... Not above the ear.
Title: Re: Is this a legal spike? legal 3x
Post by: bearhunter59 on December 12, 2007, 06:19:09 PM: My earlier quote was directly from the game regs. "...above the ears." And I just went back and checked my old regs, and it looks like the definition changed in 2006. 2005 regs say "upper half", but 2006 say "above the ear."
(I have 10 years worth of huntin and fishin regs...always interesting to go back and check how something used to be regulated or how much licenses cost years ago...)