Post by: nanum on August 31, 2009, 10:21:37 PM
Post by: wildebeast on August 31, 2009, 10:36:55 PM
Personally I never have snagged salmon and would rather catch them early in the season when fresh from the ocean, I don't even smoke a salmon that's not fresh and bright.
Last year wasn't a great year for salmon, but have been watching them go up river for a week...not a lot of them but some nice chinooks... and if it rains like they say on thursday and friday they should realling get going up the river when they smell the fresh rain water.
cliff
Post by: littlebuf on August 31, 2009, 10:42:15 PM
Post by: RightPlace-RightTime on September 01, 2009, 04:21:43 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on September 01, 2009, 04:29:11 AM
littlebuf, nice response, i like it
:yeah:
Post by: rasbo on September 01, 2009, 05:18:58 AM
Post by: singleshot12 on September 01, 2009, 06:19:32 AM
Snaggers are the same a-holes that cast into your line,cut your line with their boat moter,and anchor up right in front of you while you're casting from shore. SNAGGERS ARE SOME OF THE LOWEST FORMS OF LIFE THERE IS,,,Gotta hope in their next life they will be the salmon with a big treble hook in their ass.
Post by: BigGoonTuna on September 01, 2009, 07:40:01 AM
Post by: elkoholic on September 01, 2009, 10:31:30 AM
Post by: Ray on September 01, 2009, 12:06:04 PM
Post by: klickman on September 01, 2009, 02:05:31 PM
um.....are you serious wildebeast? im not sure if any one has explained it to you yet but i'll try. when they go up river its not really a waste its called spawning and its where baby salmon come from. when a mommy salmon and a daddy salmon love each other very much this is what they do, and then later we get to catch more fish. i really hope you were kidding
Dang it you beat me to it. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: I hope he's joking
KLICKMAN
Post by: JoshT on September 01, 2009, 02:44:16 PM
Now, I hate those guys with the 6' leaders that set the hook on the slightest tick... those guys give us all a bad name... and what they're doing is illegal. But lets call a spade a spade here... I'm sure there's quite a few fish that are snagged in the mouth, that we're not calling "snagged"... just because of where the hook ended up.
Post by: bow4elk on September 01, 2009, 03:13:02 PM
Post by: BLKBEARKLR on September 01, 2009, 03:17:34 PM
um.....are you serious wildebeast? im not sure if any one has explained it to you yet but i'll try. when they go up river its not really a waste its called spawning and its where baby salmon come from. when a mommy salmon and a daddy salmon love each other very much this is what they do, and then later we get to catch more fish. i really hope you were kidding
And to think I never thought of it as love when you have someone gut you rip your aggs out of you throw them in a basket, then have your boyfriend get picked up and squashed over the top of you.
But all joking aside littlebuf is right on the money if nothing gets up stream then 3-4 years later when there is no return they will be the first ones bitching that there is nothing to catch and that WDFW is doing a crappy job, or they have all been netted!!!
Post by: sisu on September 01, 2009, 04:51:56 PM
Post by: Antlershed on September 01, 2009, 06:23:45 PM
Post by: PolarBear on September 01, 2009, 06:29:03 PM
Read the definition of snagging inthe regs, and then try and tell me that flossing doesn't fall into that definition... :twocents::yeah:
Flossing is snagging and both are illegal no matter how you try to justify it.
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on September 01, 2009, 06:31:22 PM
Post by: sisu on September 01, 2009, 07:41:03 PM
Post by: Antlershed on September 01, 2009, 09:23:45 PM
You read what you want into the law. I'm a short timer in this state anyway and it's not illegal where I come from.Now there's a good attitude to have... :rolleyes:
Post by: cohoho on September 01, 2009, 09:46:45 PM
You read what you want into the law. I'm a short timer in this state anyway and it's not illegal where I come from.
I'm with you on this one Sisu for sure... I remember this very same conversation when I first got here the summer before.... Hey darn it, I used to be one of the best flossers running and that would be fishing with a Trooper friend of mine, you can tell the difference between a true flosser and a snagger......... :chuckle:
Wouldn't call it actually snagging, cause I would pick a fish and catch it all legally in the mouth... I won't lie by stating I never foul hooked one, but can state never kept a foul hooked fish. Snagging is aimlessly flipping a line out then ripping it at the end and hoping a fish is on the other end... or treble hook with weight, which is also legal in AK in the Salt by the way....
Crimean Shrimp is the best set up for flossing.... :chuckle:
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on September 01, 2009, 09:53:55 PM
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on September 01, 2009, 09:56:35 PM
Post by: Antlershed on September 02, 2009, 06:18:59 AM
Post by: BigGoonTuna on September 02, 2009, 07:09:45 AM
Post by: Gobble on September 02, 2009, 07:20:53 AM
I see nothing wrong with flossing. REAL snagging pisses me off. Flossers...well I fly fish for a reason especially when fishing for reds. If it bothers someone then move away from me, but if you are casting out a 1oz. of lead with a 01 treble hook and whacking away with the pole as you reel in then that my friend is SNAGGING.
I'm with you on this one Sisu.
I am NOT a snagger and I get very tired of seeing people doing it. I usually fill out 2 punch cards a year on average fishing for in salmon in the rivers. Flossing is not snagging. You cannot prevent a fish from running into you line as it is drifting (esp with the numbers in the river now) Fish swim with their mouth open and closing to breath. Snagging is when you rip the line in hopes of driving your hook into its side, there is no comparison. I very rarely foul hook a fish because I have learned over the years how not to fish to avoid it foul hooking, plus with experience you learn how to feel the bite which can be very light in some salmon breeds. :twocents:
Post by: BigGoonTuna on September 02, 2009, 07:41:01 AM
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on September 02, 2009, 05:14:34 PM
Very rarely do i drift fish anymore.
Post by: fishunt247 on September 02, 2009, 05:45:29 PM
Post by: Tom Tamer on September 02, 2009, 06:40:42 PM
I see nothing wrong with flossing. REAL snagging pisses me off. Flossers...well I fly fish for a reason especially when fishing for reds. If it bothers someone then move away from me, but if you are casting out a 1oz. of lead with a 01 treble hook and whacking away with the pole as you reel in then that my friend is SNAGGING.
I'm with you on this one Sisu.
I am NOT a snagger and I get very tired of seeing people doing it. I usually fill out 2 punch cards a year on average fishing for in salmon in the rivers. Flossing is not snagging. You cannot prevent a fish from running into you line as it is drifting (esp with the numbers in the river now) Fish swim with their mouth open and closing to breath. Snagging is when you rip the line in hopes of driving your hook into its side, there is no comparison. I very rarely foul hook a fish because I have learned over the years how not to fish to avoid it foul hooking, plus with experience you learn how to feel the bite which can be very light in some salmon breeds. :twocents:
:yeah:
In fact todayI fished the Puy til about 4:30 and left mainly because the fish got SOOOO thick you could no longer feel for a real bite one cast and about ten or more fish would bump into your line every time, was able to manage a biting Silver that ran about 12 pounds :)
Post by: h2ofowlr on September 02, 2009, 06:56:32 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on September 02, 2009, 06:58:06 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on September 02, 2009, 07:02:29 PM
Post by: fishcrazy on September 02, 2009, 07:05:35 PM
The problem I have with snagging is all the fish that come off. Those fish are left with damage that in most cases will kill them. I sat and observed springers being snagged at Barier dam oneday. I think the guy lost about 80% of the fish he hooked. That was in May. Now how many of those fish were going to live untill fall when thye would spawn? Probably none of them.
I would like to see all hatcheries open the traps up after they get the fish they need. IE you just walk up and dip out the fish you want. The fish would not be wasted and snaggers would have no reason to fish. Leaving the fun part to those who fish to have a good time.
Kris
Post by: h2ofowlr on September 02, 2009, 07:31:28 PM
Just as a matter of friendly disagreement. Most of those fish that I have witnessed seem to survive. Usually the area's where I would see a lot of snagging seemed to be area's close to the hatchery where they stack up. Not in all instances. When I have helped out in the fish traps or hatchery I just kept a set of pliers and pulled all the hooks, corkies, spiners, etc. out of the fish. Many were turning white with all sorts of stuff stuck in them. Still swimming fine. Many would even have net marks on them and seal bites. Most of the ones end up living unless the fish gets snagged back to back by multiple fisherman, which I'm sure also happens.
It would be nice if they would let many of the fish spawn past the various rivers with barrier damns. There are also reasons for this as they try to meet fish counts on certain rivers. Sometimes they only let, ex. steelhead past the damn or Chinook as reds, chum, pink, etc. would compete for the valuable spawning beds, food etc. So, the other fish are killed or recycled. It depends on the Federal / State guidlines for that river. So, a lot of politics. This information can be argued one way or the next depends on which side wants to spin it.
Post by: Houndhunter on September 02, 2009, 07:38:49 PM
The problem I have with snagging is all the fish that come off. Those fish are left with damage that in most cases will kill them. I sat and observed springers being snagged at Barier dam oneday. I think the guy lost about 80% of the fish he hooked. That was in May. Now how many of those fish were going to live untill fall when thye would spawn? Probably none of them.
ya i dissagree with that, how many times have you caught a fish that had been scared up by a seal, net, bird, ect? i think it would be safe to say that just bout all those fish will be fine
Post by: Antlershed on September 02, 2009, 08:45:16 PM
Snagging is snagging. You can sugar coat it and call it flossing if you want. If the fish doesn't TAKE the hook voluntarily it's snagging!! Hooking them on he top of the head is the same as in the tail. IT"S SNAGGING >:(:yeah:
Post by: Dustin07 on September 02, 2009, 09:03:22 PM
Post by: JoshT on September 02, 2009, 09:16:12 PM
Snagging is snagging. You can sugar coat it and call it flossing if you want. If the fish doesn't TAKE the hook voluntarily it's snagging!! Hooking them on he top of the head is the same as in the tail. IT"S SNAGGING >:(
Dude... you're just going to smack it over the head with a rock anyway.
Get you 4 fish... and get out of Dodge. If the guy next to you is "flossing"... who gives a schitt... as long as he's not being a dick to you or anyone else. The only one that can decide if a guy is being "ethical"... is that guy. If a fish is caught in the face... it's a legal caught fish... who freaking cares how the hook got there?
Post by: WAcoueshunter on September 02, 2009, 11:01:08 PM
On the other hand, there's plenty of pinks in the [insert river here] to easily meet escapement, so why do we care? We regularly hunt populations that are in much worse shape and are okay with it. Why the double standard? As long as people don't take more than their limit, why do we care?
I guess it gets down to hunting/fishing ethics to me. At some level, we all hunt/fish to apply our knowledge and experience, apply great effort, and take great satisfaction if/when we are successful. I think people get pissed off because snagging/flossing doesn't require much in the way of knowledge, experience, or effort, so it dilutes the relative success of those that do it the hard way. Maybe that's the great thing about winter steelhead, for example. There's really no easy way to catch one.
I won't give much credit for great humpy reports, at least in the rivers. If you catch 74 in the salt...well done. If you catch 74 on the Puyallup, you get a Barry Bonds *. Sorry if you're dry fly fishing for them, but you get lumped in with the rest...cuz I know you soaked that dry fly with your sinking line. :chuckle:
Sorry for the diatribe...just read too many threads on this topic lately and figured I'd give my :twocents:
Post by: BigGoonTuna on September 02, 2009, 11:12:37 PM
Post by: wildebeast on September 02, 2009, 11:28:08 PM
When the barrier dam closes off the upper river they stay below the hatchery in the closest deep holes and stay either to die or be clubbed and sold for dog food. It's a waste, so if a person snags a few for food for the family I don't have a problem.
It's not for me to judge as long as they use the fish for personal food. Better than welfare.
Seems like a good year for salmon, the toutle should be getting hot after we get a rain, now it's pretty low but some are heading up. Last year I watched thousand of salmon pass by my house and the hatchery filled up in several weeks on Green River.
I caught my first salmon over 50 years ago , so I do know about mommy and daddy fishy's. Even carried baby salmon in buckets that I got from my brothers small hatchery in a creek by the house to stock many of the small streams in our county back when I was younger.
cliff
Post by: cohoho on September 02, 2009, 11:47:19 PM
Maybe I am still a salmon snob, but it is crazy to hear how certain subjects conjure up so much debate.... Probably the reasons , I myself will not go to the Pyullaup River, extreme crowds and trash everywhere....
Post by: remington300mag on September 03, 2009, 12:51:13 AM
Also.....one point that I would make to anyone that says the fish must willingly bite the hook or take the bait......If any of you use cut plug herring for salmon...and use a double hook herring rig....most likely you leave the bottom hook free......So, if after landing your salmon, you notice that bottom hook hooked to the fish......would you consider that "snagging", would you think of yourself as a "Snagger"??.....since the salmon tried to bite the herring, which was on the top hook, not the bare bottom hook?!?!?!
Post by: h2ofowlr on September 03, 2009, 07:27:53 AM
Post by: Dustin07 on September 03, 2009, 09:09:51 AM
If it's on the inside of mouth it is a legal hook up end of story.
in my business ethics class we had a venn diagram which showed a circle of law, and a circle of ethics. The two overlapped where there was a place that ethics and law coexisted, but outside of the inner circle was about a 1/2 circle were ethics were outside of the law, and a 1/2 circle where the law was outside of ethics.
kinda like this but not exactly:
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ethics.org.au%2Fresources%2Fimg%2Fgeneral-content%2Farticles%2F0149a-venn-diagram.gif&hash=2d2c3c9dd7729ee6a42c59ecaf738f5929b652e8)
Post by: cohoho on September 03, 2009, 02:45:50 PM
Post by: Dustin07 on September 03, 2009, 03:05:09 PM
Post by: h2ofowlr on September 03, 2009, 04:25:49 PM
Post by: Dustin07 on September 03, 2009, 04:29:38 PM
Post by: bowtech721 on September 04, 2009, 10:12:39 AM
Post by: Dustin07 on September 04, 2009, 10:16:16 AM
I have one question about this "flossing" which is new to me... I went to the puyallup yesterday and how the heck could anyone without x-ray vision see through that water to floss a fish on purpose??? i got my limit of legally hooked fish and released a ton of snagged ones that hooked just reeling my line in after a drift :dunno: how am i supposed to not do that? I mean i released them but it kinda seemed unavoidable
I think what you just describe is exactly why the WDFW laws are setup the way they are. If you bring an accidental snagged fish in, let it go. If you fair hook it in the mouth, bring 'er in.
the way a lot of guys describe flossing... to me... is basically the same as snagging like you described, the exception being that the line goes through the mouth of the fish rather than along the dorsel or tail fins. what are the odds of that? And again, like I said before... if you flossed through their mouth, the hooked would probably be hooked from the OUTSIDE of the mouth going in. All my non-snagged fish were hooked inside of the mouth going out, implying that the fish did indeed take a bite.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on September 04, 2009, 03:19:08 PM
The "feel" of a fish on a drift and a hook set is a "snagged" fish but, is it always intentional? I don't think so.
A guide watching me teach two buddies how to fish for pinks two years ago was talking smack about me near the prison on the Sky. Too bad his client ended up coming over and asking for some pointers on how to fish it. He then said I was disturbing all the reds and so on.....I grew up on the River and I'm sure the dude was from Iowa or something....I just kept moving along keeping close to him and his clients.....kept catching fish and kept watching him give me the stink eye because he didn't hook a single fish for him or his clients.
I had two friends who had flyfished about 4 times in their lives catching 2-3 fish an hour till dark.......
Flyfishing with a lot of repeated casting does pull in quite a few flossed fish, no doubt about that....but seriously, when your not keeping a single fish does it matter?
BTW, Flossing isn't about sight fishing either.....all about feeling the fish on your line and pulling before you feel a bite. That is flossing. Hap.
Post by: huntinfool2007 on September 04, 2009, 06:04:34 PM
Post by: littlebuf on September 04, 2009, 07:04:22 PM
littlebuf, now do you understand my first post.
When the barrier dam closes off the upper river they stay below the hatchery in the closest deep holes and stay either to die or be clubbed and sold for dog food. It's a waste, so if a person snags a few for food for the family I don't have a problem.
It's not for me to judge as long as they use the fish for personal food. Better than welfare.
Seems like a good year for salmon, the toutle should be getting hot after we get a rain, now it's pretty low but some are heading up. Last year I watched thousand of salmon pass by my house and the hatchery filled up in several weeks on Green River.
I caught my first salmon over 50 years ago , so I do know about mommy and daddy fishy's. Even carried baby salmon in buckets that I got from my brothers small hatchery in a creek by the house to stock many of the small streams in our county back when I was younger.
cliff
this is one river so know i dont follow the logic :dunno:
Post by: fishcrazy on September 04, 2009, 07:15:49 PM
I don't think fish should be wasted. Like I said. Open the traps at hatcheries for people to dip net the fish out. Food problem solved. And I can get more eggs to go catch them with. :chuckle:
Fish hooked outside the mouth are NOT legally hooked. Better read the laws before you get a ticket.
As for the fish that are hooked by the second hook on a bait. I think it's clear the fish took the bait. But If the only hook is outside the mouth you might wanna think about it. The law is the law. Have Ikept these fish? YEP! but that is the chance I chose to take. Ethically and morally I knew the fish took the bait. If you can see that it WAS hooked in the mouth by the other hook and only the second held then at least it has a mark for the law to see it was hooked in the mouth and you probably will not get a ticket.
Kris