Post by: jstone on September 15, 2009, 08:51:03 AM
Post by: jackelope on September 15, 2009, 08:54:10 AM
Quote
Yes i have lost a buck cause i hit him in no mans land and yes i felt like crap. Perfect broad side shot but just messed up.!!!
maybe he "just messed up" too.
i'll bet the hunter feels like crap too.
:dunno:
Post by: WAPITIHUNTER on September 15, 2009, 08:55:38 AM
Post by: cully on September 15, 2009, 09:16:57 AM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on September 15, 2009, 09:27:40 AM
I was in a pistol competition this weekend. After so many Thousands of rounds down range over the years, of the 270 shots I took Sunday, 88% of them were in the black, 99.3% of them were inside the scoring rings. Yes, I missed the scoring rings twice. Total human error!
Archery though... How many things could possibly affect the trajectory of an arrow? (other than human error) -And, I've seen rifle shooters miss when Buck fever sets in. I gotta figure that it's quite possible with archers too.
I hope he spends as much time as possible in the woods as he can and recovers that animal. I'm sure he feels bad too.
I look at a bad shot, as one where there is no clear path for bullet/arrow. One that is at such a long distance that even if a good hit, may not have enough energy to kill humanely. One that is a distance beyond the skills of the shooter and/or equipment.
-Steve
Post by: jstone on September 15, 2009, 09:52:09 AM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on September 15, 2009, 10:08:08 AM
OK, He's an ass! Talk about the potential amount of suffering that animal will go through.
-Steve
Post by: runamuk on September 15, 2009, 10:08:45 AM
I understand that there are bad shots I am Talking about trying to shoot through the BUTT and into the chest. Not a high perc. shot. Thats my issue
Is it possible that he drew on a good shot and the animal jumped :dunno: if the person is purposely shooting animals in the ass well then they have problems....
Post by: cully on September 15, 2009, 10:13:47 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on September 15, 2009, 10:21:55 AM
That said, the reflexes of big game animals are amazing. I have had a bull elk spin nearly 90 degrees between release and impact on a 42 yard shot, from perfect broadside to nearly faing me, and a mule deer buck lunge forward a good 2 feet and turn from broadside to quartering on. Both were recovered, the bull after 6 hours and 2 more arrows, the deer bled out from his femoral artery and was stone dead in seconds. I wouldn't have released on either animal if they presented the posture they were in on impact. I have also watched a friend's arrow deflect off a tiny branch, and turn from a perfect heart shot radically enough to hit the bull through the penis :yike: and out the off-side hindquarter (we recovered him dead too, after nearly 8 hours looking - never a drop of blood outside the body that we could see). I've also lost animals, and it really sucks.
So, if it was bad luck, my condolences to him. If he deliberately shot an elk in the butt, though, he's an ass and should take up video games and stay out of the woods.
Post by: jackelope on September 15, 2009, 10:23:37 AM
here's a question for you guys since we're on this topic.
whats the difference between a "texas heart shot" and a head-on frontal facing shot into the chest?
IMO there's not too much difference.
lets hear it.
Post by: cully on September 15, 2009, 10:38:44 AM
I have no problem with the full frontal chest shot though, may not be optimal but it's a whole lot better than through the ass!
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on September 15, 2009, 10:44:03 AM
whats the difference between a "texas heart shot" and a head-on frontal facing shot into the chest?
IMO there's not too much difference.
lets hear it.
I can only speak for me - the difference is I would never take the Texas heart shot, but I have shot two deer head-on facing frontal. Two of the fastest kills I've ever had - the first ran about 30 yards and fell dead within sight, the second dropped dead without a twitch (slightly uphill, the arrow also broke the spine).
I am very selective taking this shot. It has to be close, the animal has to be calm and unaware of me (in both cases, feeding), and the release when the animal is looking away. The target is small, perhaps 3"x6"and has to be a total chip shot if I was shooting at a target. The biggest difference is the proximity of the vitals to the point of impact (few inches vs. a long distance through guts and/or bone), and lesser density of the sternum compared to the pelvis if the shot is off target. On both animals, the fletchings never entered the animal, but the circulatory disruption and bleedout was immediately dramatic, lots of blood on the ground. I would be hesitant to attempt the same shot on an elk, due to the heavier bones (even though the kill zone is bigger), but it can be an ethical shot on deer-sized animals, IMHO.
The only vitals on a facing away animal, deer or elk, are too far away from the point of impact, require too much penetration, and have very little chance of a quick death or adequate blood trail - chances of losing the animal are too high. I am discounting the femoral arteries as too small a target for which to ethically aim, at any distance.
Post by: CP on September 15, 2009, 10:48:42 AM
To me making a good clean shot is more important than antler size. But everyone has their own priorities.
Post by: GrainfedMuley on September 15, 2009, 10:59:08 AM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on September 15, 2009, 12:22:36 PM
To be honest, I've never heard of intentionally shooting through the rectum. (Texas Heart Shot)
I have seen the full frontal shot made more into a neck/spine shot if a Deer is looking right at you, center of white patch Will bust the neck on the far side or take a carotid artery.
Shooting through the ass would be like trying to make a bullet or arrow travel more than a few feet through 'gelatine' to get to the vitals. Probability on an Elk, I would think would be very very low. Maybe successful on a little Texas White Tail. Dunno.
-Steve
Post by: NWBREW on September 15, 2009, 01:23:18 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 15, 2009, 01:26:59 PM
:dunno:
Post by: Ray on September 15, 2009, 01:27:21 PM
The important things. Don't make them intentional. If you make one - Take the experience and learn what you can from it so that you could try and avoid it in the future.
I have only taken one bad shot - it was not actually a bad shot but it turned out bad. I learned from it.
Just because you never took a bad shot or had a bad shot experience - doesn't mean you are ethically superior but you might be doing a lot of things right and it's a good point to consider the success. It also doesn't mean you never will.
There's definitely a distinction between taking a bad shot and having it turn out bad.
Post by: jackelope on September 15, 2009, 01:30:55 PM
that is money in the bank, Ray.
Just because you never took a bad shot or had a bad shot experience - doesn't mean you are ethically superior but you might be doing a lot of things right and it's a good point to consider the success. It also doesn't mean you never will.
Post by: NWBREW on September 15, 2009, 01:50:52 PM
I've been taught that a deer that jumps and kicks high is a gut shot deer.
:dunno:
Bad shots on animals.
The important things. Don't make them intentional. If you make one - Take the experience and learn what you can from it so that you could try and avoid it in the future.
I have only taken one bad shot - it was not actually a bad shot but it turned out bad. I learned from it.
Just because you never took a bad shot or had a bad shot experience - doesn't mean you are ethically superior but you might be doing a lot of things right and it's a good point to consider the success. It also doesn't mean you never will.
There's definitely a distinction between taking a bad shot and having it turn out bad.
You are right jakelope. I do believe it was gut shot. It was a broadside shot that turned out really bad. Like I said...12 years and I still think about it every hunting season. Has not happened since. Did I learn from it..HELL YES. Does this make me a bad HUNTER? I don't think so.I know I am not the only one, for those it has happened to....you know the feeling. Still...Texas heart shot....never do it :bdid:
Post by: bearpaw on September 15, 2009, 02:11:05 PM
I've been taught that a deer that jumps and kicks high is a gut shot deer.
:dunno:
I have seen heartshots and lungshots do the same thing.... :twocents:
Post by: LongTatLaw on September 15, 2009, 03:11:45 PM
Ill put myself out there a bit!
I used to refuse to take anything but a broadside shot STANDING STILL even on deer shooting under 150 yards with a 300 win mag.
Then I heard Larry Wysun (sp?) saying a texas heart shot was VERY EFFECTIVE.
Since then Ive probably done it maybe 8-9 times...only on deer... only with a 300 win mag (one time in Wisconsin with a 12 guage slug). ALL were bloody messes and all but one left the deer dead within just a few feet. The furthest Ive seen one travel was about 40 yards but it tried to get up when I got close and I gave it a follow up shot!
Sooo, Id say Im not opposed to it with a big damn gun on a deer or smaller!
Id never try it with an elk...not even with a 375 HH.
Now, Id say Ive had as many experiences with a head on shot on deer with the same guns... all of these were very successful. Put em down in their tracks... I dont remember any of them taking a single step!
Id take a head on shot on a DEER or smaller bear with a big gun!
THAT SAID...
Ive had several opportunities to disprove the idea of a head on shot with a bow :bash: :bash: :bdid:
The 3rd biggest WT I killed in Mississippi was shot at 19 yards with a strong quartering to me angle and I would be ashamed to describe the details.
Ive done it a few times and its a shot Ill absolutely NEVER do again on any animal!
Ive seen that shot go bad on a damn 30 lb beaver at 30 yards shooting a 76lb bow and a broadhead!!
Its a NO GO on ANY animal!
as for a Texas heart shot... one of the 5 biggest WT's Ive ever seen was in Mississippi and I was at full drawn at 15 yards as it walked straight away... I didnt take that shot and Im completely ok with that!
anyone that takes a THS on any animal with a bow is a *censored* in my book!
PS....you can add the straight down / spine shot to that as well...always seems ok and probably is with a big gun... with a bow...its a recipe for a half shaft or less that misses vitals and leaves almost NO blood trail!
Ive tried it a few times on 60 pound Georgia WT's with about 80% FAILURE :bash:
The very first deer I ever shot with a bow I went for the spine breaker straight above from a tree stand shot... 14 hrs later I decided Id never find her without any blood....
Some would say Ive had a decent year...
12 or so pigs in Georgia ranging from 20 lbs to over 250 lbs
a 4pt mulie in OR
a 5pt rosey in WA
all ended great...100% recovery.... all went down very quick and left HUGE blood trails! some shot as far as 52 yards out....
why?
Im not a great hunter nor an amazing shot!!!
all exactly broadside or quartering away!
all shot with a virgin broadhead (never touched anything but a quiver and even that was done gently!!)
marginal shots are the stuff "almost got him" stories are made of!
an intentional bad angle shot that ends with a wounded and not recovered animal is a badge of disgrace that ALL hunters should strive to avoid!
IMO :twocents:
I pissed off a guy in oregon last weekend because he was about to take a bad angle shot at 48 yards on a deer through a thread the needle opening ( Iwas helping him try to get his first bow deer).
I dont know anyone that could have pulled off a happy ending with that shot...
it meant he got no shot...and for that...Im an *censored*!
Im ok with that!
now...Ive gotta go find me a bear!
dave
Post by: boneaddict on September 15, 2009, 07:52:14 PM
Post by: nw_bowhunter on September 15, 2009, 08:20:20 PM
Good comment by Ray: There's definitely a distinction between taking a bad shot and having it turn out bad.
Post by: Track-er on September 15, 2009, 10:14:12 PM
Mike
Post by: bobcat on September 15, 2009, 10:42:25 PM
WOW just talked to my contractor and he said that one of there co-workers shot a 7x7 bull in the ASS (TEXAS HEART SHOT) what is going on with people and bad shots. He shot it Sunday and had to work yesterday. has not found it yet. I have MAJOR Issues with that. I have missed out on a lot of animals because i only want a high perc. shot. Yes i have lost a buck cause i hit him in no mans land and yes i felt like crap. Perfect broad side shot but just messed up.!!! :dunno: :bash:
Was this a Texas heart shot with a bow and arrow? I couldn't find where you said it was but it looks like others are assuming such. I can't imagine taking that shot with a bow. On the other and it actually works great with a rifle and the right bullet. I killed a spike bull elk that was going straight away with a 270 and a 140 grain Barnes Triple Shock bullet. I actually only took the shot because I thought I had already put a bullet in him. First shot was at 150 yards or so with him standing just about broadside. He turned and ran straight down the hill and that's when I took the only shot I had which was the "Texas Heart Shot." He did require another finishing shot after that one but he didn't go far. I was amazed he didn't go down though because the bullet traveled from his rear all the way through him lengthwise and stopped in his head. Turned out I had missed that first shot. So the Texas heart shot is what did him in. Believe it or not it didn't even make a mess of the guts. It missed them completely.
Post by: SHANE(WA) on September 15, 2009, 10:51:13 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 16, 2009, 04:39:58 AM
Gut shot animals hunch up when hit, a double lung will always a high jump and the rear legs to kick, its the air being taken from the lungs that causes the jump kick
shane, that's been my experience most of the time too.... :twocents:
I prefer to get vitals with a shot, but in my experience an a$$ shot is a deadly shot. :twocents: My best whitetail I shot right up the a$$ running full bore straight away, texas heart shot....he ate good and he is on the wall.... :twocents:
I think that some people are way to worried about ego or ethics on all this placing the shot business. I was raised in a poor household and we went hunting because we needed the food.....I was taught to look for a killing shot but try to avoid wasting meat. An arrow doesn't waste much meat and an arrow right through both hind quarters is deadly. I don't like losing meat by shooting an animal there with a rifle, but there have been a few times that we had a good a$$ shot with a rifle and we decided to take the shot because we knew we would get the animal and it seemed that we were not going to get another shot. Even though it wasn't the preffered shot, it was what we had, what we took, and it resulted in meat on the table.
That's probably not what some of you want to read, but it's the truth.....
Post by: SHANE(WA) on September 16, 2009, 04:53:27 AM
Post by: jackelope on September 16, 2009, 08:13:04 AM
Gut shot animals hunch up when hit, a double lung will always a high jump and the rear legs to kick, its the air being taken from the lungs that causes the jump kick
this must not be the case every time because i saw a deer get shot in the guts once that jumped higher than any deer i've ever seen jump when shot. not arguing, just sayin...i saw what i saw. some of you guys have seen a lot more deer killed than little old me and are probably mostly right. fortunately an immediate follow up shot put that buck down for good and the suffering was short lived.
my original question regarding ass shots or full frontal shots was not condoning one way or the other...just looking for thoughts on it. i've never taken shots at either end of a deer. i don't think i'd take either shot with a bow...too much potential for running into bone from either end for my liking.
Post by: halflife65 on September 16, 2009, 05:39:22 PM
The guy that did it really is a good guy that made a totally stupid shot. He wanted to throw his rifle away and not hunt anymore and it took a little pep talk to get him back and moving around again. He'll NEVER take that shot again and I'll NEVER take that shot, period.
The problem was that he knew that he took a bad shot - someone posted above that a bad shot is different than a shot gone bad. That's what bothered this guy so much - he knew that he caused this problem.
Post by: bearpaw on September 16, 2009, 05:41:14 PM
Gut shot animals hunch up when hit, a double lung will always a high jump and the rear legs to kick, its the air being taken from the lungs that causes the jump kick
this must not be the case every time because i saw a deer get shot in the guts once that jumped higher than any deer i've ever seen jump when shot. not arguing, just sayin...i saw what i saw. some of you guys have seen a lot more deer killed than little old me and are probably mostly right. fortunately an immediate follow up shot put that buck down for good and the suffering was short lived.
my original question regarding ass shots or full frontal shots was not condoning one way or the other...just looking for thoughts on it. i've never taken shots at either end of a deer. i don't think i'd take either shot with a bow...too much potential for running into bone from either end for my liking.
jackelope....I wouldn't think anyone took it the wrong way. From some personnal experiences I know a$$ shots can be deadly and even frontal shots can be deadly, but no one can be faulted for looking for the best shot possible. As I mentioned before I prefer vital area shots, and with bear I prefer vitals and a shoulder if possible. I commend you for being a responsible hunter..... :tup:
I also want to add....there always seems to be an exception to every scenario.....thus explaining the differences in shot reactions we have all seen. :twocents:
Post by: coachcw on September 16, 2009, 06:09:05 PM
Post by: littlebuf on September 16, 2009, 07:50:29 PM
Post by: scoyoc5 on September 16, 2009, 07:59:16 PM
Post by: LongTatLaw on September 16, 2009, 08:40:37 PM
kinda *censored* to say anyone that takes a THS is an ASS when like 6 people have admitted to them and a few advocate them with a rifle atleast!
watch ur tone...its all wrong :P
Post by: NWBREW on September 16, 2009, 08:46:00 PM
i didnt read all the replies so this may have been covered but i can only assume he was shooting a bow correct? a "texas heart shot" is to be made with a rifle, but in my opinion should not be made at all. at the least next time you see this dip *censored* go kick him in the nuts
Your right littlebuff. I geuss I just assumed it was with a rifle because I couldn't imagine anyone trying to shoot an elk up the butt with an arrow. If that is the case this guy is a moron. I will stand behind that till the day I die. I would never take that shot, especially with a bow...never. :bdid:
Kick him in the nuts...........twice
Post by: mossback91 on September 16, 2009, 08:48:34 PM
Post by: Buckoholic on September 16, 2009, 08:52:11 PM
Post by: halflife65 on September 16, 2009, 08:58:57 PM
if your hunting your bound to loose an animal!!!! i almost lost a 5x5 that i had the perfect shot on!!! hardly any blood but went right through the heart!!! i tried to find it all afternoon and went to camp and grabbed buddys and looked into the night!!! found him 2 days later piled up under a blow down we walked by 3 times!!!! even the perfect kill shot isnt alwats the best!!! I also jerked when I shot a buck quartered away from me and it went right in his bunghole!!! Now that buck only ran 10 feet and was dead with the good ol bungholer shot!!! So every shot is different
The difference is that you weren't trying to shoot it up the ass - you made a bad shot at (probably) a good angle and got lucky. The guy in question here evidently took that shot on purpose and it didn't work out. Just a stupid thing to do...
Post by: LongTatLaw on September 16, 2009, 09:13:55 PM
Post by: h2ofowlr on September 17, 2009, 04:10:18 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 17, 2009, 06:54:16 PM
Back to the topic, very few hunters have always made the perfect shot, many intended vital shots have ended up being anything but that. I usually figure someone who says they always make the perfect shot probably hasn't hunted to much because just about all of us make a mistake sooner or later.
On deer, a heart shot that is off three inches either way will miss the heart, the same is true for a head shot, or a neck shot. However, if a person hits the heart, head, neck, or the texas heart shot, it has been my experience the animal usually dies pretty quickly.
Whether intended or not, a shot sideways with an arrow though both hind quarters has usually proven to be quite deadly in my experience. A "texas heart shot" with a high powered rifle can also be equally deadly whether intentional or not. Obviously if a deer is standing broadside you try to hit the vitas area, but if you miss and hit the hindquarters hard, you will still most likely get the deer.
When I have a hunter who misses a shot that should have been made, I don't usually threaten them or put them down. I usually talk about it and try to reinforce the idea of good shot placement and shooting form and I also like to have the person shoot their gun or bow at a target so they see it hit correctly or so they can adjust as needed until they do see it hit correctly. When a person is taking their next shot at game, they need to have faith in their weapon and know it can do the job. :twocents:
Post by: jstone on September 17, 2009, 07:37:28 PM
Post by: littlebuf on September 17, 2009, 07:40:55 PM
Post by: NWBREW on September 17, 2009, 07:41:11 PM
I thought my comment might be controversial and that some folks might ridicule my reply. I could have easily not said anything, but that really wouldn't have answered the question. The answer wasn't meant to hurt anyone or degrade anyone. So I am a bit surprised by some of the responses. Oh well, no problem, I have thick skin and I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.I don't think you are being ridiculed. I think it's different opinions. Many of us do not have the amount of exprience as you have guiding and seeing what kinds of shots prove to be kill shots. Many years ago when my father could still hunt he shot a doe from behind, right up the ole bunghole. Doe went down like a rock but what a mess. Half the guts were hanging out of it's belly, deer still alive....follow up shot killed it. He was using his 300 win mag, I know it was too big but you try telling that to a 76 year old man. It didn't bother him, he grew up around the time of the deppression so a kill was meat in the freezer. Me being there I didn't care for the outcome of that shot. But I do agree it is a kill shot. It's just not for me. Now with a bow shooting elk; I just don't see how someone can take that shot. Again it's not for me.Please don't take any opinions on this site the wrong way. They are only opinions. Just like the bunghole....everyone has one..just some stink a little more than others. I am always interested in your comments...good or bad.
Post by: bobcat on September 17, 2009, 07:49:40 PM
i cant believe theirs even a discussion on if this was a bad shot to take? shooting a elk up the ass with a arrow is a bad shot! sorry it just is
I still don't know if the shot was with an arrow. I asked the question but haven't seen it answered yet. Did somebody read something that I didn't?
Post by: elkaholic123 on September 17, 2009, 08:02:56 PM
2 point buck right up the poop chute and the arrow went straight through and almost came out the brisket :yike: and the deer only went 40yrds!I am not saying I would ever do it but that time it worked perfect! :dunno:
Post by: Crunchy on September 17, 2009, 08:37:34 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 17, 2009, 08:58:50 PM
Suppose a person messes up a head shot and blows away the jaw or nose, suppose a person messes up a heart shot and shoots a front leg off, or messes up a neck shot and blows a hole in the wind pipe. Do you really think the animal will have less pain or suffering than being hit in the hind quarters or in the a$$? :dunno:
Maybe humans are confusing what they percieve to be the reality with more the morality of the shot from a humans way of thinking, and that perhaps the morality is not really the actual reality of the situation. Perhaps the hind quarter shot is no more painful or cruel than the other shots. Perhaps an ass shot is even less cruel, it's really hard to say for sure one way or another.
I do respect everyone for wanting to do what they think is right, that says a lot in itself. I will admit I was raised with hunting more about survival, if I thought the shot was a killing shot, I took it. I can remember my dad being concerned if I let meat get away because that affected our food supply. Don't get me wrong, my dad wanted me to put one right behind the shoulder whenever I could, but he was glad for the less desireable shots that put meat in the freezer too. :twocents:
Post by: SHANE(WA) on September 17, 2009, 10:24:13 PM
Post by: jstone on September 18, 2009, 12:47:25 PM
Post by: CoryTDF on September 18, 2009, 12:58:20 PM
Post by: Matt on September 18, 2009, 01:02:54 PM
Post by: jstone on September 18, 2009, 02:58:35 PM
Post by: adam.WI on September 18, 2009, 04:07:56 PM
I have seen this shot done many times with guns and those deer have all dropped in there tracks. DEAD game over
Post by: mossback91 on September 18, 2009, 04:14:57 PM
animal reflexes might have got the best of him on this one :dunno:
*censored* happens and it sucks.........
if someone intentionally takes the texas heart shot :bash: I dont think anybuddy on here needs to kill a deer that bad
Post by: halflife65 on September 18, 2009, 04:16:26 PM
Sure, people have missed broadside shots. Should that person have waited for the deer/elk to walk straight away and even narrowed the target more?
Post by: NWBREW on September 18, 2009, 04:35:24 PM
Something else to think about is all the people that are on a high horse about this and the chance of being off slightly is high, ask yourself if you have ever missed an animal. That means you missed by feet not inches- that's bad. Maybe means you shouldn't even hunt because you don't know where that arrow or bullet will end up. Or maybe it means you need to realize that things happen, you can't control everything and accidents happen.
I don't think it has anything to do with people being "on a high horse". You are right you cannot contol everything and accidents do happen but we can control the shots we take. I have seen this shot taken on a deer with a rifle and it did produce a kill, it wasn't pretty but it was a kill. Like I have said, for me I would not take this shot...rifle or bow, nor would I take a shot at a running deer or elk. I myself would prefer to wait for a better shot. That I can control. That is just my honest opinion and it is only an opinion
Post by: bearpaw on September 18, 2009, 05:47:40 PM
Quote
Sure, people have missed broadside shots. Should that person have waited for the deer/elk to walk straight away and even narrowed the target more?
This is not an attack on you but in my opinion this comment was out of context, I don't think anyone has tried to say this.
It's all about judging your own ability to make a lethal shot. A hunter should know his abilities and shoot within his abilities. If a hunter takes shots within his ability, but accidentally makes a bad shot, he should not be tarred and feathered. Yes he should practice shooting and he should reconsider his next shot opprtunities carefully, but he probably doesn't need kicked in the nuts or whatever it was that was said. :twocents:
I am very sorry the guy did not get the elk, but you guys were making bad comments about him before you knew all the circumstances. I don't think that was real fair when most likely every one of us has lost a wounded animal in the past.
Skill levels vary greatly, I have seen good marksmen who rarely miss at 400+, but I get a lot of hunters who have trouble hitting at any range. Give some guys a texas heart shot on a deer at 200 yards and the animal will be much deader than the bear we tried to track last week that was wounded at 80 yards standing broadside. :dunno:
It's all about shooting within your ability and knowing your limits. :twocents:
Post by: Gutpile on September 18, 2009, 06:05:31 PM
Post by: halflife65 on September 18, 2009, 06:22:30 PM
QuoteSure, people have missed broadside shots. Should that person have waited for the deer/elk to walk straight away and even narrowed the target more?
This is not an attack on you but in my opinion this comment was out of context, I don't think anyone has tried to say this.
It's all about judging your own ability to make a lethal shot. A hunter should know his abilities and shoot within his abilities. If a hunter takes shots within his ability, but accidentally makes a bad shot, he should not be tarred and feathered. Yes he should practice shooting and he should reconsider his next shot opprtunities carefully, but he probably doesn't need kicked in the nuts or whatever it was that was said. :twocents:
I am very sorry the guy did not get the elk, but you guys were making bad comments about him before you knew all the circumstances. I don't think that was real fair when most likely every one of us has lost a wounded animal in the past.
Skill levels vary greatly, I have seen good marksmen who rarely miss at 400+, but I get a lot of hunters who have trouble hitting at any range. Give some guys a texas heart shot on a deer at 200 yards and the animal will be much deader than the bear we tried to track last week that was wounded at 80 yards standing broadside. :dunno:
It's all about shooting within your ability and knowing your limits. :twocents:
I'm actually off topic a little - I'm not really bashing this guy because, you're right, I don't know the circumstances surrounding this particular incident. Like you mentioned, most people have wounded an animal in past. I've done it twice (over a period of many years) and it's an absolutely horrible feeling. I feel that I'm a pretty decent shot and probably could pull off a THS but, given the awful feeling of screwing up what was actually a good shot (about 200 yards at a bull that I hit high - over the lungs and below the backbone and a deer that I creased across the front of the chest on a shot that I hurried at about 50 yards - I still CANNOT imagine how I messed that up) I don't want to take anything but a high percentage shot (both that I messed up on were broadside). As I mentioned in a post above, a friend of mine took the THS at a bull and hit it in the left hip - and he's a good shot.
I honestly can't remember all the deer that I've shot - some of the little 3 points sort of run together, but I can remember the two that I screwed up like it was yesterday.
Post by: NWBREW on September 18, 2009, 06:47:50 PM
It's all about judging your own ability to make a lethal shot. A hunter should know his abilities and shoot within his abilities. If a hunter takes shots within his ability, but accidentally makes a bad shot, he should not be tarred and feathered. Yes he should practice shooting and he should reconsider his next shot opprtunities carefully, but he probably doesn't need kicked in the nuts or whatever it was that was said. :twocents:
It's all about shooting within your ability and knowing your limits. :twocents:
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Agreed....You do have control over the shot you take and he is probably kicking himself in the nuts. But I also believe that with a rifle the THS has a higher probabilty of a kill. With a bow there may not be the same penetration. I am sure this will stick in his mind for years to come.You try to learn from mistakes you make. I don't remember all the shots that turned out good, but I do remember the one that turned out bad
Don't get me wrong, I have made a bad shot an a broadside deer. Two days looking...Had tag soup.
And yes I wanted to kick myself in the nuts.
Post by: jstone on September 18, 2009, 07:18:08 PM
Post by: Gutpile on September 18, 2009, 07:24:00 PM
WOW, this topic is getting out there. I have talked to bow hunters who have taken 100 yard shots on deer and was just blown away. I was in the Swakane and a guy asked me and my hunting partner if we saw a 4x4 running around with a arrow in its back hip. He was bragging how he hit it at 100 yards ha said " My bow can shoot that far" Hell ya it can probably farther but come on you dont shoot at a deer at 100 yards with a bow. The odds just are not there. You owe it to the animal to try to make it as clean as possible. To many rifle hunters taking up bow hunting. ( O JUST LOB IT OUT THER IF WE GET IT GREAT IF WE DONT WE WILL GO ON TO THE NEXT ONE) Thats Crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bash:
Hold on pal. Rifle hunters are less of a hunter than a bow hunter? Some people (me) may take offense to:
Quote
To many rifle hunters taking up bow hunting. ( O JUST LOB IT OUT THER IF WE GET IT GREAT IF WE DONT WE WILL GO ON TO THE NEXT ONE) Thats Crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bash:
I know several Bowhunters who are utter morons too, not only us lowely rifle guys.
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on September 18, 2009, 07:29:48 PM
WOW, this topic is getting out there. I have talked to bow hunters who have taken 100 yard shots on deer and was just blown away. I was in the Swakane and a guy asked me and my hunting partner if we saw a 4x4 running around with a arrow in its back hip. He was bragging how he hit it at 100 yards ha said " My bow can shoot that far" Hell ya it can probably farther but come on you dont shoot at a deer at 100 yards with a bow. The odds just are not there. You owe it to the animal to try to make it as clean as possible. To many rifle hunters taking up bow hunting. ( O JUST LOB IT OUT THER IF WE GET IT GREAT IF WE DONT WE WILL GO ON TO THE NEXT ONE) Thats Crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bash:
So are you saying that all bow hunters that take bad shots are rifle hunters that converted over to archery?
Post by: jstone on September 18, 2009, 07:31:09 PM
Post by: NWBREW on September 18, 2009, 07:33:22 PM
[/quote]
Where the heck did that come from. I hunt with a rifle and bow and do a hell of alot of it. I have never had a bad shot or a shot go bad with a bow....only once with a rifle. I think with bad shots you could leave the rifle or bow out it and try to learn from it. From the sounds of it you must not have ever made a bad shoy or had a shot go bad. If thats the case..Congrats to you. That comment you just made was Crap :twocents:
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on September 18, 2009, 07:34:01 PM
You wanna know why we are loosing so many of our hunting rights to the animal lovers? It's because all the different user groups can't stand together against them. That attitude is just the start of it.
Post by: NWBREW on September 18, 2009, 07:37:58 PM
So than why would you make the comment that to many rifle hunters are taking up archery?
You wanna know why we are loosing so many of our hunting rights to the animal lovers? It's because all the different user groups can't stand together against them. That attitude is just the start of it.
Thank you Michelle: That is exactly right!
Post by: bearpaw on September 18, 2009, 07:54:41 PM
Post by: halflife65 on September 18, 2009, 08:07:26 PM
WOW, this topic is getting out there. I have talked to bow hunters who have taken 100 yard shots on deer and was just blown away. I was in the Swakane and a guy asked me and my hunting partner if we saw a 4x4 running around with a arrow in its back hip. He was bragging how he hit it at 100 yards ha said " My bow can shoot that far" Hell ya it can probably farther but come on you dont shoot at a deer at 100 yards with a bow. The odds just are not there. You owe it to the animal to try to make it as clean as possible. To many rifle hunters taking up bow hunting. ( O JUST LOB IT OUT THER IF WE GET IT GREAT IF WE DONT WE WILL GO ON TO THE NEXT ONE) Thats Crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bash:
So are you saying that all bow hunters that take bad shots are rifle hunters that converted over to archery?
Jstone, I think that I was with you until the comment about the rifle hunters. You're speaking about any hunter that takes an unethical shot - got it. However, unfortunately you singled out a particular group of people rather than just saying "in general." I'm a converted rifle hunter (some years ago now) and I wouldn't take a 100 yard shot with a bow. That person didn't take that shot because they are a converted rifle hunter, they took it because they are an idiot.
I think that your point holds that we need to take ethical shots - but it applies to everyone: rifle, muzzloader, archery. Other weapons, as well, where legal (other states that allow crossbows, knives for sticking pigs, etc.)
I was also speaking about ethical shots, in general, and using the THS as an example. Bearpaw earlier pointed out that we don't know the circumstances of the original post and it's a good point - I don't know them. I don't want to bash this particular guy without knowing the details...I'm just talking about taking an ethical shot that has the greatest chance of resulting in a clean kill.
Post by: jstone on September 18, 2009, 09:30:21 PM
Post by: NWBREW on September 18, 2009, 10:39:20 PM
[/quote]
jstone, I think it was just that last sentence that heated up a little. I do believe that most hunters on this site care about the types of shots they take and have good ethics about hunting....rifle muzzy or bow. I hear ya..I see the samething myself...You may shoot bow, I may shoot rifle or vise-versa, other then that I think our opinions are about the same on hunting ethics. Everyone has opinions, it's all good...no worries...your still welcome at my campfire..coffee or beer
Post by: Matt on September 19, 2009, 12:15:03 PM
I am a tournament archer and I shoot over 20,000 arrows a year. I do tune and sight my hunting equipment to shoot out to 100 yards. I do this because I can and not because I take that shot. But I do have the ability to hit anything in the open with no wind or obstructions and using a range finder from 0-100 yards. Even though I have the ability I have never taken a shot over 70 yards. But my average shot is probably around 30 yards. I have been lucky to have only lost 1 animal but I have had several poor shot placements, for whatever reason. So anyone can make a poor shot with ideal conditions.
I am not ragging on archers but they do upset me sometimes because they do not stay within their abilities. Too many never shoot their bow til right before the season, they flood the archery shops 2 weeks before to have their bow tuned. I see and hear way too many stories every year about lost animals. Some are honest but lets face it there are a lot of just plain ignorant shots. I have to somewhat agree with jstone about the riffle hunters comment. Only because I see guys coming in the archery shop all the time switching over because of the generous huinting seasons. This is great. I encourage everyone to try archery. But if you do, take the time to be profficient at it before you go into the woods. You owe it to the animals. This goes for every user group too. Don't abandon archery and pick up a rifle because you can't get close enough. Unless you take the time to be profficient at 300 yards you have no business shooting that far.
Post by: wints13 on September 20, 2009, 11:31:29 AM
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on September 20, 2009, 12:42:56 PM
I do believe that we all do need to stick together and be on the same page.
Stick together, YES. Being on the same page, NO. Archery, Rifle, and Muzzy hunters will never be o the same page. The point I am trying to make is that if the greenies start attacking one user group we all need to back up that user group reguardless of whether or not we agree.
I am also not just talking about Rifle, Muzzy, and Archery hunters either. Don't forget about Water Fowl hunters, Upland bird hunters, Hound hunters, Bait Hunters, and Trappers. Hound hunters, Bait Hunters, and Trappers in this state have been seriously screwed. Why? Because the user groups don't stand together. It doesn't matter if baiting, hound hunting and trapping isn't your thing. It is someones thing and they enjoy that method of hunting.
Post by: WASHBCBOOK on September 20, 2009, 04:02:29 PM
Post by: Sneekee23 on September 20, 2009, 05:47:18 PM
Post by: WASHBCBOOK on September 20, 2009, 06:03:22 PM
from mistakes i will learn this early season not to rush be patient