Post by: bowtech721 on September 30, 2009, 11:51:26 AM
Post by: Straight Shooter on September 30, 2009, 11:55:20 AM
xdm is the 4.5" match model
There is also a 3" sub-compact model
Great pistols... I have the XD40.
http://www.springfield-armory.com/
Post by: coop2424 on September 30, 2009, 12:02:25 PM
Post by: JoshT on September 30, 2009, 04:01:34 PM
They offer the standard XD in 3" (Sub-Compact), 4" (Service), and 5" (Tactical) slide lenghts. I currently shoot and carry the XD9 4"... it is an exceptional weapon, and has proved both accurate and 100% reliable in many IDPA matches and on the range.
Post by: bowtech721 on September 30, 2009, 04:05:41 PM
Post by: Straight Shooter on September 30, 2009, 04:15:28 PM
Ok cool thanks for the info i think i want the 4" stainless but not totally decided yet on what caliber...
Gotta get the.40 Smith... the best of both worlds... capacity and stopping power!
Post by: JoshT on September 30, 2009, 04:49:10 PM
Post by: NW-GSP on September 30, 2009, 06:43:37 PM
pick whatever you feel is going to be comfy for you cause your not going to carry it otherwise
Post by: dontgetcrabs on September 30, 2009, 06:50:58 PM
Ok cool thanks for the info i think i want the 4" stainless but not totally decided yet on what caliber...
Gotta get the.40 Smith... the best of both worlds... capacity and stopping power!
+1
Post by: Straight Shooter on September 30, 2009, 07:07:11 PM
The only true "stopping power"... is shot placement. Get the one you think you'll shoot the best... and practice with most.
I respectfully disagree. Shot placement is obviously important, but its not the "only" true stopping power. Velocity, bullet weight and sectional density are also huge contributing factors. I do agree that what ever you shoot... practice, practice, practice. If we're still talking about the XD (in which I was referring to), there were three calibers mentioned... 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. Of those three, I recommended the .40 S&W because of the reasons I stated earlier.
Post by: ICEMAN on September 30, 2009, 08:18:16 PM
?"Stopping power?" 9mm will do it. If the first one doesn't, one of the other 19 remaining will.....
Post by: JoshT on September 30, 2009, 09:06:33 PM
The only true "stopping power"... is shot placement. Get the one you think you'll shoot the best... and practice with most.
I respectfully disagree. Shot placement is obviously important, but its not the "only" true stopping power. Velocity, bullet weight and sectional density are also huge contributing factors. I do agree that what ever you shoot... practice, practice, practice. If we're still talking about the XD (in which I was referring to), there were three calibers mentioned... 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. Of those three, I recommended the .40 S&W because of the reasons I stated earlier.
Caliber doesn't mean dick-all when it comes to stopping a fight... same as it really doesn't mean much in big game hunting. Good bullets in proper places end schitt in a hurry... anything less than that, and all bets are off. The best "caliber" for self-defense... or hunting... is the one you're most comfortable with... and can put where it needs to be... period. Shootability and capacity are big factors in selecting a defense weapon... and the 9mm will always trump both the .40 and the .45 in those two areas for most shooters, especially novice shooters.
All that being said... the 7mm Rem still kicks the .270's ass up and down the block.
Post by: h2ofowlr on September 30, 2009, 09:26:47 PM
Post by: NW-GSP on October 01, 2009, 12:20:30 AM
I have an XDm in 9mm.
?"Stopping power?" 9mm will do it. If the first one doesn't, one of the other 19 remaining will.....
I agree with you. my uncle was in the military from vietnam till recently ( he was In the elite forces one could say ) but I once asked him what his choice side arm was and he point blank told me it would always be a 9mm I asked him about stopping power he told me that when you put one in the head and two in the chest stopping power isnt going to mean sh@#
Post by: DeerHarvester on October 01, 2009, 02:58:23 AM
JoshT -
I agree with everything you have stated about shot placement, but..... Shot placement in a life or death situation is not an easy task. When you’re in that kind of situation fine motor skills go out the door and you must rely on muscle memory. Muscle memory requires several thousand reps on a regular basis before they can be second nature. Shot placement requires target identification, sight alignment, and a smooth and steady trigger pull. That is a lot to think about when your life is on the line. That is why you should be practicing until those steps become muscle memory. Anyone who has been in the military or a combat situation will tell you, you always revert back to your training when confronted with such a situation. Sadly most people who own handguns do not practice nearly enough to have muscle memory. That being said, knock down power does come into play. A 9mm does not have the knock down power that a 45 has and that is a fact. A 45 cal is going to be a little more forgiving with those poorly placed shots. I believe someone already stated, you should have gun your comfortable with, as you will practice more. If a 9mm fits your hands the best, that is fine, just practice and practice some more until it becomes second nature. Bottom line is if your going to carry a weapon for personal defense, make sure you shoot the gun on a regular basis and know your gun inside and out. :guns:
Post by: Thefisherman83 on October 01, 2009, 04:35:22 AM
Post by: Straight Shooter on October 01, 2009, 07:12:38 AM
Now here is a great debate. The XD is great weapon I have shot several of them. They are very smooth guns. The added mag. capacity with the XDm and interchangeable grips is great addition to an otherwise good gun. That being said my next gun purchase will be a 40 cal XDm.
JoshT -
I agree with everything you have stated about shot placement, but..... Shot placement in a life or death situation is not an easy task. When you’re in that kind of situation fine motor skills go out the door and you must rely on muscle memory. Muscle memory requires several thousand reps on a regular basis before they can be second nature. Shot placement requires target identification, sight alignment, and a smooth and steady trigger pull. That is a lot to think about when your life is on the line. That is why you should be practicing until those steps become muscle memory. Anyone who has been in the military or a combat situation will tell you, you always revert back to your training when confronted with such a situation. Sadly most people who own handguns do not practice nearly enough to have muscle memory. That being said, knock down power does come into play. A 9mm does not have the knock down power that a 45 has and that is a fact. A 45 cal is going to be a little more forgiving with those poorly placed shots. I believe someone already stated, you should have gun your comfortable with, as you will practice more. If a 9mm fits your hands the best, that is fine, just practice and practice some more until it becomes second nature. Bottom line is if your going to carry a weapon for personal defense, make sure you shoot the gun on a regular basis and know your gun inside and out. :guns:
:yeah:
What he said. :chuckle:
Post by: Straight Shooter on October 01, 2009, 07:22:42 AM
The only true "stopping power"... is shot placement. Get the one you think you'll shoot the best... and practice with most.
I respectfully disagree. Shot placement is obviously important, but its not the "only" true stopping power. Velocity, bullet weight and sectional density are also huge contributing factors. I do agree that what ever you shoot... practice, practice, practice. If we're still talking about the XD (in which I was referring to), there were three calibers mentioned... 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. Of those three, I recommended the .40 S&W because of the reasons I stated earlier.
Caliber doesn't mean dick-all when it comes to stopping a fight... same as it really doesn't mean much in big game hunting. Good bullets in proper places end schitt in a hurry... anything less than that, and all bets are off. The best "caliber" for self-defense... or hunting... is the one you're most comfortable with... and can put where it needs to be... period. Shootability and capacity are big factors in selecting a defense weapon... and the 9mm will always trump both the .40 and the .45 in those two areas for most shooters, especially novice shooters.
All that being said... the 7mm Rem still kicks the .270's ass up and down the block.
I hear ya... but, I still respectfully disagree. You still have to bring "enough gun" to the fight in order to stop the threat. Of course, you have to hit what you're aiming at, but bullet energy still means a lot. Just because I can shoot my Ruger MkII more comfortably and accurately than my XD40 doesn't mean that I'm going to use a .22LR as my carry or home protection gun... I'm just going to practice with my XD40 more.
Post by: JoshT on October 01, 2009, 09:46:07 AM
Both of you addressed the accuracy issues when under duress... this is 100% true... and makes an excellent case for capacity. None of the addressed calibers offer enough over the other to compensate for poor placement... one may be a bit more "forgiving" of placement... but another is much more "forgiving" to shoot.
Like I've stated many times before... unless you've drawn and fired your weapon, from your CC rig... in a "real life" type situation... fired from cover, on the move, and engaged multiple targets... several times... you have no idea how you'll shoot said weapon. I have no problem with the .40... or the .45... but I have seen it time and time again, hand a new shooter a 4" XD in 9mm, .40, and .45... and see which one they shoot well. We took the ladies from our church out to shoot... few had ever shot a pistol before... by the end of the night all had shot and enjoyed (and fired it with pretty good accuracy) the 9mm... most shot and were scared schittless by the .40... in the same gun.
No matter which one you choose... take it out, in your carry rig... and shoot an IDPA match, or take a "training" course where you get to do some live fire situation shooting.
Post by: Straight Shooter on October 01, 2009, 10:05:02 AM
SS and Deerharvester... I agree... to an extent.
Both of you addressed the accuracy issues when under duress... this is 100% true... and makes an excellent case for capacity. None of the addressed calibers offer enough over the other to compensate for poor placement... one may be a bit more "forgiving" of placement... but another is much more "forgiving" to shoot.
Like I've stated many times before... unless you've drawn and fired your weapon, from your CC rig... in a "real life" type situation... fired from cover, on the move, and engaged multiple targets... several times... you have no idea how you'll shoot said weapon. I have no problem with the .40... or the .45... but I have seen it time and time again, hand a new shooter a 4" XD in 9mm, .40, and .45... and see which one they shoot well. We took the ladies from our church out to shoot... few had ever shot a pistol before... by the end of the night all had shot and enjoyed (and fired it with pretty good accuracy) the 9mm... most shot and were scared schittless by the .40... in the same gun.
No matter which one you choose... take it out, in your carry rig... and shoot an IDPA match, or take a "training" course where you get to do some live fire situation shooting.
Agreed... If we're comparing 9mm vs. .40 S&W vs. .45 ACP. My primary CCW is the compact Kel-Tec P11... in 9mm. :tup:
Post by: DeerHarvester on October 01, 2009, 02:14:30 PM
Post by: JoshT on October 01, 2009, 02:23:04 PM
Sounds like we can all agree on practicing if your going to carry a weapon for personal safety. Hey josht where would one get further info on IDPA matchs?
nwppa-idpa.com
They hold matches every 3rd Saturday at the Renton Sportsman's Club... everyone there is more than helpful... and it's always a great experience. Typically you'll have 6-8 stages, and a total round count of 75-100 rounds.
Post by: DeerHarvester on October 01, 2009, 03:17:13 PM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on October 01, 2009, 03:26:33 PM
Post by: JoshT on October 01, 2009, 04:51:50 PM
Post by: runamuk on October 01, 2009, 08:27:34 PM
Josh .....you kinda scare me...lol...but I love reading your posts they seem to make a lot of sense. So having said that...is it an acceptable idea to carry a 9mm or do I really need something that can kill a grizzly :dunno: I want to start thinking seriously about this ......
Post by: JoshT on October 01, 2009, 08:42:43 PM
I like the 9mm... even though for some reason it's envogue to trash on it lately. Tell you what... I wouldn't want to get shot with it... don't suppose a bad guy would either.
Tell you what... you're welcome to shoot mine anytime, and judge for yourself. In fact, if you're serious about a CC pistol... you should shoot a bunch before you buy one. Find out what you like, and what you don't. If you have kids in the house... look at the safety features of the weapon as well. I know I wanted my wife to be able to pick up the gun and shoot it... without worrying about the "safety"... so the XD's grip safety was very attractive to me.
Post by: runamuk on October 02, 2009, 06:35:24 PM