Post by: bearpaw on October 21, 2009, 01:55:21 PM
Anti’s Working to Stop Rocky Mountain Wolf Hunts
http://www.ussportsmen.org/Page.aspx?pid=2181 (http://www.ussportsmen.org/Page.aspx?pid=2181)
http://www.ussportsmen.org/Page.aspx?pid=2181 (http://www.ussportsmen.org/Page.aspx?pid=2181)
Research Indicates Wolves Having Negative Impact on Elk Populations
10/21/09
A leading anti-hunting organization is preparing a nationwide petition urging the U.S. Secretary of the Interior to place the Northern Rocky Mountain wolf population back on the Endangered Species List. This while research indicates increasing wolf numbers in the region may be playing a large role in the decline of elk population.
The Defenders of Wildlife, known for its relentless work to end all wolf management programs, is heavily pushing a new online petition that asks Secretary Salazar to reconsider placing the wolves back on the Endangered Species list, much like the Great Lakes wolf populations were again relisted in September.
A coalition of animal rights groups, including Defenders, previously sued the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) in an effort to block planned hunts in Montana and Idaho. Those hunts were part of the states’ management plans to be implemented after the wolves had been removed from protection under the Endangered Species Act (ESA).
Judge Donald W. Molloy of the Federal District Court for Montana ruled against the coalition and allowed those hunts to continue, though the decision appeared to leave the door open to further challenges to the delisting. Judge Molloy noted that FWS did not delist the population in Wyoming and commented that “the service has distinguished a natural population of wolves based on a political line, not the best available science.” Should the wolves be placed back under ESA protection, all hunts in the region would cease.
Meanwhile, studies have linked the reintroduction of the wolves into the Rocky Mountain region to a decline of the elk population in the same area.
According to research from Montana State University, the number of elk on Yellowstone's northern range was estimated at between 17,000 and 19,000 before the wolves were reintroduced in 1995. As of 2008, those numbers have declined to under 7,000. The study indicates that the presence of an increasing number of wolves was resulting in changes in behavior by elk including having fewer calves.
It is estimated that 1,350 wolves currently live within the northern Rockies. Idaho’s wolf hunting season began on September 1 with a limit of 220 wolves that can be harvested. Montana’s season began September 15 and has a harvest limit of 75.
Post by: wolfbait on October 21, 2009, 04:50:16 PM
Post by: luvtohnt on October 21, 2009, 04:56:23 PM
Brandon
Post by: bowhuntin on October 21, 2009, 05:08:07 PM
Post by: wolfbait on October 26, 2009, 09:02:27 AM
goat, Did Defenders of wildlife send you here to share your great knowledge on how the wolves will improve Washington? Tell us how many deer or elk 15 bp's will eat per month? They didn't send you on here to spread the word on how great the wolves are, they told you to try to discredit the people who have learned what is happening and what will happen. So, hows it goin? Do you feel like yer a big hit?
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Post by: WAcoyotehunter on October 26, 2009, 09:04:51 AM
I thought Defenders of Wildlife was still involved in a lawsuit pertaining to the delisting of the wolves not including Wyoming? Judge Molloy also stated in his decision that he thought that these anti-hunting groups would win in court if they challenged the delisting based on them not including Wyoming in the delisting.Wyoming needs to get their plan together or that is exactly what will happen. They screwed up and ID and MT will end up paying for it in the end. I hope they come up with something quick.
Post by: wolfbait on October 26, 2009, 10:22:17 AM
I thought Defenders of Wildlife was still involved in a lawsuit pertaining to the delisting of the wolves not including Wyoming? Judge Molloy also stated in his decision that he thought that these anti-hunting groups would win in court if they challenged the delisting based on them not including Wyoming in the delisting.Wyoming needs to get their plan together or that is exactly what will happen. They screwed up and ID and MT will end up paying for it in the end. I hope they come up with something quick.
Yeah right, Wyoming already had a wolf plan that USFWS appoved, what you mean is they need to get a plan that defenders of wildlife approves.
Post by: Gobble on October 26, 2009, 10:34:52 AM
goat, Did Defenders of wildlife send you here to share your great knowledge on how the wolves will improve Washington? Tell us how many deer or elk 15 bp's will eat per month? They didn't send you on here to spread the word on how great the wolves are, they told you to try to discredit the people who have learned what is happening and what will happen. So, hows it goin? Do you feel like yer a big hit?
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Exactly what I was thinking
Post by: bearpaw on October 26, 2009, 07:26:35 PM
Hey buddy get a life, mulehunter knows more about the wolves in Washington for the amount of resources at his disposal than anyone in this state, you my friend are an idiot..... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
If the Defenders of Wildlife (AKA WDFW) had any real intention of wanting to know how many wolves are in this state they would get a few guys like mulehunter to find the wolves.
Post by: mulehunter on October 27, 2009, 05:50:26 AM
goat, Did Defenders of wildlife send you here to share your great knowledge on how the wolves will improve Washington? Tell us how many deer or elk 15 bp's will eat per month? They didn't send you on here to spread the word on how great the wolves are, they told you to try to discredit the people who have learned what is happening and what will happen. So, hows it goin? Do you feel like yer a big hit?
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:yeah: Very True.. No one in this STATE OF WA People Never seen what I have KNOW! I have seen two different GROUP of Wolves. Its TOO MANY DOGS and not good for them to be here. I am not stupid as well. If you people as PRO-WOLF think I am such IDIOT. It doesnt bother me at all. Because I am smarter than Pro-WOLF people because U people doesnt have ANY PICTURE OF WOLF in WA!! We got almost 600 plus pictures of TrailCamera Wolves. I found several Games kills by wolves, also know those people who owns livestocks that got killed by wolves. Our Hounds with a Permittee got killed by Wa Wolves because I was THERE! I will NEVER FORGET this part.
This POINT is that Pro-wolf doesnt know any sh$t about WOLF also a IDIOT! :chuckle:
Mulehunter 8)
Post by: eastside boy on October 27, 2009, 05:53:11 PM
Post by: wolfbait on October 30, 2009, 03:06:03 PM
Nice...trail cam pics!! Are they on any of the site threads.....just wondering, I would like to see some of the color phases so I can think about what might be available to put the smack down on if we ever get tags in hand.
Maybe you should head to where the wolf huntin is going on now, because with defenders of wildlife running wdfw, there won't be any wolf hunting in Washington for many years. Not the way you are thinking anyway! ;)
Post by: MtnMuley on October 30, 2009, 03:55:17 PM
Post by: dontgetcrabs on October 30, 2009, 04:17:01 PM
Every hunter and so-called hunter on this site needs to pay attention and give thanks to wolfbait, mulehunter, and bearpaw for their constant updating and work on the wolf issues we have in our country and this state. Much appreciation for the posts and info gathered guys!
Excellent job guys, keep up the good work. I can not understand who would think having wolves anywhere is a good idea? Oh wait, hmmm, maybe, just maybe, could it be ANTI HUNTING GROUPS who's whole agenda is to stop hunting? If they introduce an alpha predator to an area that will kill to survive, next thing you know there isn't enough game for hunters. Wake up all hunters, and shut up wolf lovers. :twocents:
Post by: sako223 on October 30, 2009, 05:09:47 PM
I don't understand the Wyoming hangup. Why weren't more efforts put into that earlier. Reaction always takes more effort.
I have found that animal numbers always sway to the pitch of the argument. Locally our elk herd number has changed Dramatically on paper. It has dropped by thousands in days. And reproduced by thousands overnight by the stroke of a few keys.
The WDWF claims low numbers for damage purpose.
The USFS claims high numbers for damage purposes.
The WDFW claims high numbers for season and license sales.
Hunters claim low numbers after season.
Having wolves and being a hunter Work just a little north of here.
Post by: wolfbait on October 30, 2009, 06:58:08 PM
I am for hunting wolves. I am not against having managed numbers around.
I don't understand the Wyoming hangup. Why weren't more efforts put into that earlier. Reaction always takes more effort.
I have found that animal numbers always sway to the pitch of the argument. Locally our elk herd number has changed Dramatically on paper. It has dropped by thousands in days. And reproduced by thousands overnight by the stroke of a few keys.
The WDWF claims low numbers for damage purpose.
The USFS claims high numbers for damage purposes.
The WDFW claims high numbers for season and license sales.
Hunters claim low numbers after season.
Having wolves and being a hunter Work just a little north of here.
NO ONE is aginst having wolves, it's the managing part that most of us don't like. Wyoming is the only state that refuse to buckle under, but instead ask the folks who brought the Candian wolves in to this country illgally, ( the gov and defenders of wildlife)to live up to what they proposed at the beginning. You can see how that has gone. Wyoming had a wolf plan that was aproved by USFWS, but defenders of wildlife did not aprove of it.
(I have found that animal numbers always sway to the pitch of the argument. Locally our elk herd number has changed Dramatically on paper. It has dropped by thousands in days. And reproduced by thousands overnight by the stroke of a few keys.
The WDWF claims low numbers for damage purpose.
The USFS claims high numbers for damage purposes.
The WDFW claims high numbers for season and license sales.
Hunters claim low numbers after season.)
Go to where these reports are coming from, ask the local folks, that is where 9 times out of 10 you will get the truth.
Just like here in the Methow where wolves have been released and I am sure are still being released, now that the big wolf push is on for Washington, people are coming forward with info on released wolves in other parts of the state. If you haven't seen what has happened with the delist/relist joke than you have missed the boat. Defenders of wildlife have been and still are running the wolf show. The only way I see hope for hunting in the future is hunters managing wolves. That does sorta suck, don't it. But it is what it is! ;) It's a crooked deal on the part of wdfw and at the start by USFWS. I don't do very well playing the game. I have heard some folks that would call, shooting a wolf poaching, but what about all the laws that the USFWS and Defenders of wildlife broke when they imported these wolves? It's just like legalizing drug dealers, they kill or ruin everything that was a good life.
Post by: Hunter Dug on October 31, 2009, 08:04:04 AM
Post by: sako223 on November 02, 2009, 08:39:54 PM
By Judd Cooney 2002
The Colorado Division of Wildlife won't give an estimate of the cougar population within it's borders but a conservative estimate by several knowledgeable individuals puts the population at approximately three thousand. Hornocker's mountain lion/cougar study in Idaho showed the average cougar killed one mule deer per week or fifty deer per year. That means that Colorado's cat population is taking 150,000 mule deer from a total estimated population of 300,000 deer. Hunters presently harvest between 40,000-50,000 per year. In 1963 Colorado's deer harvest was 147,000 mule deer so the cougar has replaced the hunter as the number one predator on the Colorado mule deer population.
http://www.biggamehunt.net/sections/Mountain_Lion/Big_Cats_Are_Back_11040212.html
We also have an ever increasing cougar population in WA which the WDFW seems to have an income fix on now with reduced season. Oregon appears to be moving to year round season with limits.
Post by: buckhorn2 on November 02, 2009, 08:50:41 PM
Post by: alecvg on November 14, 2009, 11:25:10 PM
Post by: mulehunter on November 15, 2009, 12:21:16 PM
Here is another situation where numbers are thrown out there. by my calculation of there numbers they would have no deer in two years.
By Judd Cooney 2002
The Colorado Division of Wildlife won't give an estimate of the cougar population within it's borders but a conservative estimate by several knowledgeable individuals puts the population at approximately three thousand. Hornocker's mountain lion/cougar study in Idaho showed the average cougar killed one mule deer per week or fifty deer per year. That means that Colorado's cat population is taking 150,000 mule deer from a total estimated population of 300,000 deer. Hunters presently harvest between 40,000-50,000 per year. In 1963 Colorado's deer harvest was 147,000 mule deer so the cougar has replaced the hunter as the number one predator on the Colorado mule deer population.
http://www.biggamehunt.net/sections/Mountain_Lion/Big_Cats_Are_Back_11040212.html
We also have an ever increasing cougar population in WA which the WDFW seems to have an income fix on now with reduced season. Oregon appears to be moving to year round season with limits.
Very True! Washington Cougar is our little "PROBLEM" Today! I BLAME ON DONNY M!!!! HIS FAULT!!!! :bash: Really Five years ago, One of my honey hole by Old 3 were FULL of Animals. Last two weeks ago I cant see that much anymore. I would spend hiking about 8 hours of walking and only see at least 15 Deer and few Elk. I miss see 100 Deer a day! Today I wish it would be same as five years ago. I could cut Many Cougars Trax in any where I find one place I want go.
We MUST reduce Cougars!
Wolves up Okanagon County, Two guys I talked to from Spokane told me that they SAW four Wolves South West of Wintrop. Somewhere in Thompson Ridge last sight on Modern Rifle season They hear howling at them. :yike: Must be one mother and two pups and one young wolf from last two years ago litter being idiot for howling at Hunter! :chuckle:
Mulehunter ;)