Post by: bankwalker on October 26, 2009, 09:49:18 AM
also i hunted the sage on the eastside for the first time this season. and loved it. so now i wanna start saving and buy a new rifle for next season incase i come to the situation where a 300+ yard shot shows itself.
so whats the best long range caliber.
there are a few calibers i have in mind, that when zero'd 2" high @100 yard will have a drop of around 10" give or take at 300-350 yards. which is what im looking for.
is they any caliber that will stand out as a long range caliber.
Post by: Navyhunter on October 26, 2009, 09:55:44 AM
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on October 26, 2009, 10:02:30 AM
Post by: Gobble on October 26, 2009, 10:04:30 AM
Post by: jackelope on October 26, 2009, 10:05:37 AM
Post by: jackelope on October 26, 2009, 10:07:30 AM
Post by: TeacherMan on October 26, 2009, 10:20:57 AM
Post by: Ray on October 26, 2009, 10:24:46 AM
Post by: Yak-NDN on October 26, 2009, 10:29:42 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on October 26, 2009, 10:32:01 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on October 26, 2009, 10:37:56 AM
According to the table, the round with the greatest point blank range is the .240 Weatherby, with a 322 yard trajectory that is within 3" when properly sighted for maximum point blank range.
There are several others within a few yards of that which have a substantially heavier bullet (e.g., .300 mags).
If you are looking for that kind of performance in your own rifle, you will need to develop your own, individual trajectory chart through practice.
The other consideration is your own shooting ability and behavior. The only big game rifle I've ever re-sold was a .300 Win Mag Winchester M70. The gun performed fine, but I started to develop a slight flinch - too much gun for me. I do a lot of open country hunting, and have never felt undergunned with a 7mm Rem mag or my .30-06. Both are reliable out to 400 yards, though I personally try to limit shots to 300 or less. I shot my buck this year, twice, at 304-306 yards with a .308.
I'd also look strongly at the various ballistic compensating scopes, if you want to shoot beyond your MPBR. You can very realistically stretch your effective range 100 yards or more beyond MPBR, if you are a capable shooter and practice at those ranges. Don't shoot game beyond the ranges at which you have demonstrated your own proficiency on paper - if you want to take 400 yard shots, you need to practice shooting 400 yards. If your .30-06 shoots accurately, a new scope with a ballistic compensating reticle scope is probably all you need. To shoot consistent sub-8" groups at 400 yards, you need to be shooting sub-2" groups consistently at 100 yards. To shoot with game-killing accuracy at 500 yards (and there are lots of reasons to NOT attempt that ...), you need to be shooting sub-1.5" groups at 100.
Post by: Axle on October 26, 2009, 10:48:58 AM
I would also try to sneak up a bit better though.
Shot placement is everything. You don't need to cut them in half.
Post by: Vek on October 26, 2009, 11:12:42 AM
Once you're shooting past 300 yards, and particularly when you're out past 400 and 500, a small error in range estimation will result in a miss or a wound. Laser rangefinder is mandatory. A 10mph crosswind can also do interesting things to a bullet's flight out that far. Magnums aren't immune to the effects of wind and gravity.
The fact that you're asking this question means that you're probably not a gun-nut. Do you reload? Do you plan to? If so, get a rifle in whatever chambering you want and figure out what it likes. If not, your options are a bit more limited. Finding a factory load that a factory rifle likes is a crapshoot. Once you find it, you'd better be prepared to buy enough of that lot of ammo to last you for a while. You will have a better chance of finding something that shoots well if you buy a 308.
Post by: Bob33 on October 26, 2009, 11:23:30 AM
There is no simple answer. What is long range, and what criteria define "best"?
Out to 400 or even 500 yards, you can kill an animal with a 30-06 just fine. You need to (a) know the distance, (b) know the drop and drift of your particular load, and (c) know how to estimate hold-over. All those require practice and a rangefinder.
The flatter shooting the caliber, the easier it will be to estimate hold-over. A 30-06 bullet may drop 18 inches at 400 yards, while a Weatherby 257 bullet may only drop 6 inches. If you can estimate 18 inches of holdover, what difference does it make?
The really serious long range hunters tend to use cartridges such as the 30-378 (378 Weatherby necked down to use .30 caliber bullets). The guns are generally expensive, heavy, and recoil intensive.
If you have the itch to get a new gun and really don't want or need "the best", the 270 WSM would be an excellent choice. It's available in many guns, is pleasant to shoot, has lots of factory ammunition choices available, and is quite flat shooting.
Post by: elk311 on October 26, 2009, 11:29:58 AM
Definately do-able, and yes knowing my bullet drop was key!
Another KEY area to think about is retained energy. How many foot pounds will you be delivering to make a CLEAN KILL. I would say no less than 1500ft/lbs for elk. So after 400 yds it becomes questionable for an '06, in my opinion.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 26, 2009, 11:33:09 AM
Post by: sako223 on October 26, 2009, 11:35:22 AM
300 yards is a common shot range in open country, '06 will do it.
After many years shooting .30-06 I stepped up to the .300 win mag. It shoots flatter with a little more recoil. More energy and inherently accurate. works great on deer and I much prefer it for elk.
One important factor about recoil- a well designed stock will help reduce effects of felt recoil. This also translates into more money. There are many factory rifles with good stocks.
Calibers above this perform great but tend to punish you physically & financially.
Post by: HUNT on October 26, 2009, 11:47:51 AM
I started shooting a 7mm RUM this year. This is a very flat shooting rifle.
3600 fps at muzzle with 150 gr barnes ttsx
sighted in 3" high at 100. 4.5" high at 200. 2 inches high at 300. 2 inches low at 400. 14 inches low at 500.
Recoil is very manageable, less than my 300 win mag.
Post by: fishermanjoe on October 26, 2009, 11:52:37 AM
Post by: whacker1 on October 26, 2009, 11:57:52 AM
I have been working on some loads that will hopefully group better, but haven't had a chance to shoot them. Project for winter and next spring.
But to answer the question at hand. The .300RUM carries the energy and trajectory you are looking for, without the added cost of the Weatherby.
If I were lookingfor a similar caliber to the .270, I would replace it with a .25-06, because again it is a fairly common caliber with several different bullet options without the added cost of the Weatherby equivalent.
Your .30-06 can be loaded to get better balistics, but I think that practice is the key to long range shooting. I play with balistics software and when I have the chronoed load of choice I match that up with the balistics software for all of the elements involved in shooting, muzzle velocity, balistic coefficient, weight of the bullet, etc. and then print out the key benchmarks for that load: 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 or longer if need be. I then practice those shots with repetition. I haven't practiced past 300 with my .300 RUM so, I would likely not exceed 300 by more than 50 yards until I know more about my own ability to shoot that load. However, I would likely shoot the .270 out to 500, because I am practiced, comfortable, and know that distance fairly well.
One of the most accomplished elk hunters I know still tapes the trajectory benchmarks on his stock, so he knows the trajectory at 50 yard intervals from 200-500. He shoots a 7mm Mag..... Rangefinder, check trajectory, acquire target, boom... I only know of one shot he has taken over 300 yards in the last 15 animals. I am trying to practice what he does, by getting closer.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 26, 2009, 12:08:10 PM
i have alot of guns like most just because the gun can shoot and kill animals well past 300 yards does not mean that just beacuse it can that. gives people the right to start lobbing bullets out there. we as sportman need to follow a code of ethics. i see alot of people shoot there gun at 100yards and look at tradjectory tables see there gun is so many inches low at 500 yards, and never even shoot it past 100. print the tradjectory stick it on the gun and go hunting. also i see guys buy the gun works system shoot there shells and shoot at a hundred and not shoot one shell past that see a deer at 800 yards and start shooting. we should respect the animals we hunt alot more than that and alot of hunters do, but alot don't as well. if you are planning on shooting alot, and spending the time and $ to practice and become very ethical there is alot of great long range guns like the 30-378 325wsm 300 ultra and so on it gets spendy putting in alot of time on the range to know your gun i shoot one gun out to 1000yards its not a standard gun by anymeans and my premium shells handloaded are about 5.00-6.00 a shot i have not hunted with this gun yet because i can't see giving up my muzzleloader which i love to hunt with but if i had to pick one it is the 30-378 weatherby the shells are about 120.00 a box good luck to you and your choice there are alot of great guns out there to pick from
Post by: Bigbuckhunter_1996 on October 26, 2009, 12:40:24 PM
Post by: Chopaka81 on October 26, 2009, 12:40:58 PM
Buy a ballistics program and get very familar with the ballistics of your rifle and you will be fine.
This year I took my buck down at 472 yds using simple kentucky windage for hold over and it was a one shot - one kill take down.
BTW a laser range finder is a very helpful item. I recomend the Nikon 1200 Monarch, it will get the job done out to 750yds if you can hold it steady enough.
:twocents:
Post by: C-Money on October 26, 2009, 12:58:15 PM
in my opinion you should get a 7mm because i shot my deer with it at 500 yrds. and my
Wounder how many people that post kills at 500 yards really know what 500 yards looks like. Guess most folks have range finders now these days. I am sure people can do it, but man that is a long way! I was looking at a nice buck with my daughter and FF4607 Saturday. We used a Leupold laser range finder and the rise the deer was on came back at 544 yards. We never would have even thought about shooting that far! FF4607 stalked into 160 yards and the big ole buck was a clean 2x2. Back to the topic, if I wanted a real long range canyon buster, I'd go for a .30-378.
Post by: KimberRich on October 26, 2009, 01:15:54 PM
maybe you should stick with your -06. it will do for you what you are looking for with the right ammo.
For sure. Your 06 will do what you want. No need to go out and buy something else. Never heard of a 30-06 that wasn't effective over 300 yards? There's a reason it's the most hunted with caliber ever.
Post by: Bofire on October 26, 2009, 02:54:04 PM
Carl
Post by: Bob33 on October 26, 2009, 03:03:32 PM
3600 fps at muzzle with 150 gr barnes ttsx
[/quote]
Wow - how are you getting 3600? The factory 150 is rated at 3325 ft/second.
Post by: elk311 on October 26, 2009, 03:21:21 PM
:)A 16inch off of the USS Missouri, 2000 Lb shell 22 miles!
Carl
Now there's a gun that should have never retired !!! :drool:
Post by: HUNT on October 26, 2009, 03:48:54 PM
I started shooting a 7mm RUM this year. This is a very flat shooting rifle.
3600 fps at muzzle with 150 gr barnes ttsx
Wow - how are you getting 3600? The factory 150 is rated at 3325 ft/second.
[/quote]
I handload my shells. I worked with several different powders and bullets and this is my max load for my rifle. Its just starting to show pressure signs. Just happens that this load is also the most accurate load out of my rifle.
Post by: whacker1 on October 26, 2009, 04:27:16 PM
Quote
I started shooting a 7mm RUM this year. This is a very flat shooting rifle.
3600 fps at muzzle with 150 gr barnes ttsx
Wow - how are you getting 3600? The factory 150 is rated at 3325 ft/second.
I handload my shells. I worked with several different powders and bullets and this is my max load for my rifle. Its just starting to show pressure signs. Just happens that this load is also the most accurate load out of my rifle.
[/quote]
Which powder?
Post by: HUNT on October 26, 2009, 04:29:03 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on October 26, 2009, 04:29:52 PM
Post by: lazydrifter on October 26, 2009, 05:11:08 PM
Post by: whacker1 on October 26, 2009, 05:12:16 PM
Quote
RL-25
Thank you for sharing.
I am shooting H-1000 in the 300rum and haven't tried that one yet. I bought some retumbo, and need to try a few with that as well.
Post by: Jamieb on October 26, 2009, 05:20:27 PM
Post by: bankwalker on October 26, 2009, 05:58:17 PM
Save the money you'd spend on a new rifle and get a range finder and turrets. With practice a 06, properly set up is capable of killing out there a ways past 300 yards. As much as I dislike the 06, it will do you just fine.
im not a 06 fan at all. i only have it because it was a great deal.
i have a mauser action, and planned on having a barrel built for it. either 25-06 or 270.
is there any other caliber that i can get with the 30-06 action length?
Post by: beaslayer6 on October 26, 2009, 06:09:17 PM
Post by: rjm5 on October 26, 2009, 07:32:11 PM
Post by: EastWaViking on October 26, 2009, 07:39:26 PM
there are a few calibers i have in mind, that when zero'd 2" high @100 yard will have a drop of around 10" give or take at 300-350 yards. which is what im looking for.
is they any caliber that will stand out as a long range caliber.
My 300 Weatherby loaded with 87.5 grains of RL22 and a 165 Nosler sighted in 3" high at 100 was zeroed at 300 and something like 6" low at 400, if I remember right. It's been years since I've shot it, but it was a flat shooting gun.
Post by: jdb on October 26, 2009, 07:40:43 PM
if your building a rifle and hand load i'd look at a 280 rem ai or perhaps a 6.5/06Save the money you'd spend on a new rifle and get a range finder and turrets. With practice a 06, properly set up is capable of killing out there a ways past 300 yards. As much as I dislike the 06, it will do you just fine.
im not a 06 fan at all. i only have it because it was a great deal.
i have a mauser action, and planned on having a barrel built for it. either 25-06 or 270.
is there any other caliber that i can get with the 30-06 action length?
Post by: Swiftkid on October 26, 2009, 07:42:16 PM
Post by: runningboard on October 26, 2009, 07:56:37 PM
Quote
if your building a rifle and hand load i'd look at a 280 rem aiyep same thought I had, 280 AI
Post by: Yak-NDN on October 26, 2009, 08:02:17 PM
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on October 26, 2009, 08:04:08 PM
.257 Wby.
Bullet B/C Path of Bullet
(Above or below line-of-sight of rifle scopes mounted 1.5" above bore)
Wt. Grains Bullet Type 100 Yds 200 Yds 300 Yds 400 Yds 500 Yds
80 Barnes TTSX .378 1.9 2.6 0.0 -6.4 -17.4
87 SP .322 2.1 2.8 0.0 -7.1 -19.5
100 SP .357 2.4 3.1 0.0 -7.7 -21.0
100 Barnes TSX .420 2.9 3.7 0.0 -8.8 -23.7
110 Accubond .418 2.7 3.3 0.0 -7.9 -21.2
115 BST .453 3.0 3.5 0.0 -7.9 -21.5
117 Rn-Ex .243 3.4 4.3 0.0 -11.1 -31.9
120 Partition .391 3.0 3.7 0.0 -8.9 -24.3
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on October 26, 2009, 08:07:43 PM
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on October 26, 2009, 08:14:35 PM
I shoot a 257 wby mag ultralight and love love love it. I shoot the 110 accubond and have great results but i saw that new bullet and ballistics of it the other day. Have you or anybody else on here had success with it on an animal. Would you shoot that small of a bullet on an animal??
Post by: fishermanjoe on October 26, 2009, 08:36:49 PM
Quote
257-
I shoot a 257 wby mag ultralight and love love love it. I shoot the 110 accubond and have great results but i saw that new bullet and ballistics of it the other day. Have you or anybody else on here had success with it on an animal. Would you shoot that small of a bullet on an animal??
The whole thing behind the 257 is speed. If you read up on the history of the .257 there were actually tests where they would shoot just over a goat's back and it would just drop dead as a result of the blood vessels breaking. I have a friend who loves his .257 and is very comfortable with long range shots. I would not want to go any bigger than deer with it though. You prob could kill an elk with it, but you also can kill an elk with a .22, its all shot placement.
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on October 26, 2009, 08:53:50 PM
257-
I shoot a 257 wby mag ultralight and love love love it. I shoot the 110 accubond and have great results but i saw that new bullet and ballistics of it the other day. Have you or anybody else on here had success with it on an animal. Would you shoot that small of a bullet on an animal??
The 257 was Roy's favorite for a reason. Now, some may be impressed or not, but the old man stacked up ALOT of critters with it, and if my memory serves me correctly, he used the 87 grain hornady exclusively. I also believe he killed Africas Big 5 with that combo. I used the 100 grain hornady for 10 years with excellent success on muleys, whiteys, blacktails, bear, and varmits. I can see it coming already, buuuut the BC is only .3blahblahblah, compareable to a ping pong ball, etc. That 80 grain boolit has the same bc as my beloved 100 hornady, that has taken numerous bucks past 400, a couple at over 500, and one over 700, without turrets, mil-dots, B&C reticles, etc. Sooo, if the wind is THAT bad, it shouldn't be too hard to stay down wind of said critter, and get closer for a comfortable shot. I've also seen several bucks eat *censored* so fast from a 55 grain ballistic tip @ 4000 fps,from 243, it would leave most folks scratching their head wondering what the hell just happened. So, to answer your question, I would shoot a super fast 80 grain TTSX at any buck that walks, and any bull elk that walks for that matter. I'll report back to ya next year. Later
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on October 26, 2009, 08:57:29 PM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on October 26, 2009, 09:05:37 PM
Post by: Jamieb on October 26, 2009, 10:09:39 PM
Post by: Bob33 on October 26, 2009, 10:22:17 PM
I have friends that kill elk with the 100 grain TSX, and have no complaints. I've personally killed about 20 antelope with that combination. I don't have any complaints either, but then again antelope can fall dead over from the sight of a sling shot.
There are arguably better "long range" calibers such as the 338s and the very hot 30 calibers (300 RUM, 30-378, Lazzeroni, etc.). The Roy is a joy to carry and shoot, and suits me just fine.
Post by: buckhorn2 on October 26, 2009, 10:47:39 PM
Post by: MuleySniper on October 26, 2009, 11:01:00 PM
MS
Post by: SSG Brower on October 27, 2009, 02:42:24 AM
Post by: PA BEN on October 27, 2009, 06:05:26 AM
Post by: Intruder on October 28, 2009, 10:40:08 AM
maybe you should stick with your -06. it will do for you what you are looking for with the right ammo.
agreed. out to 400 yards the 30-06 should be fine... 300 and in is right in the wheelhouse.
Post by: WDFW-SUX on October 28, 2009, 10:54:59 AM
On a side note all of the current Weatherby family members hunt with 270 Wby's.. :dunno:
Post by: bearpaw on October 28, 2009, 11:12:06 AM
I have seen about 10 bear killed with the WTBY and most were one shot kills.
(Not saying it's the best long range caliber, but it's a good one to have around.)
Post by: Bofire on October 28, 2009, 11:19:51 AM
Carl
Post by: coachcw on November 26, 2009, 07:56:21 PM
Post by: norsepeak on November 26, 2009, 07:58:02 PM
Post by: cascademountainhunter on November 26, 2009, 08:34:02 PM
Post by: DBake on November 26, 2009, 09:48:17 PM
I shoot Federal Premium High Energy 180 gr Noslers in my 30-06 that turns it essentually into a .300 win mag. The energy and ballistics are the same and of course the bullet is .300 cal. You might give them a try.
Where do you get the High Energy, I thought they discontinued them?
Post by: Mookie on November 27, 2009, 01:12:10 AM
Post by: Jamieb on November 27, 2009, 03:30:22 AM
Post by: runamuk on November 27, 2009, 01:34:12 PM
7rem mag. I'd never try to convince anyone that its the best long ranger out there but when you start balancing Weight, length, recoil, down range ballistics. A 7mag loaded with a high BC 160gr'er and a rangefinder is very capable long range cartridge that is also very hunter/shooter friendly. I'll have shoot some video of my 7-08 at long range, it will blow some minds.
Jamieb I'd like to see that if you do shoot some video.
Post by: Snowman on November 27, 2009, 01:38:26 PM
Post by: Huntbear on November 27, 2009, 02:28:48 PM
Why not consider a .338 WM. With 210 gr. Nosler partitions it shoots as flat a a 7 mag with 175 gr. bullets. Has more energy, and bigger frontal diameter. It has cleanly taken elk at 410 yds. in our group, and I would not hesitate on a 500 yd. shot if I had a good rest, and the wind was not howling. However, I shoot more than the average person. Averaging 2-300 rounds a year through my hunting rifles. Not all off a bench either, using my sticks, off a log, sitting and shooting across my knees, etc... all hunting situations, I may encounter.
Some say long range starts at 500 yds. I say if you can not reliably hit an 8 in. circle at 500 yds. 9 times out of 10, you need to keep your shots closer.
Oh, and a range finder as said before is a MUST HAVE!
Just my :twocents: :twocents:
Post by: royalbull on November 27, 2009, 02:51:03 PM
Post by: Jeremiah P on November 27, 2009, 05:09:46 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 27, 2009, 05:42:00 PM
Post by: huntnphool on November 27, 2009, 05:43:38 PM
Post by: Antlershed on November 27, 2009, 07:10:14 PM
I'm shooting a 208 grain A max bullet and that s o b is deadly.Yep, just ask my poor little spikey spikerson i shot this year. :chuckle:
Post by: Jamieb on November 27, 2009, 10:18:16 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv376%2Felkhunter%2Fth_shootingsteel.jpg&hash=884a06e36c746eab48525ca460639408ae82e0e4) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v376/elkhunter/?action=view¤t=shootingsteel.flv)
This picture was taken from by the target looking back to my shooting position on top of the ridge.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv376%2Felkhunter%2FIMG_0096.jpg&hash=7e15723ee1b00921ce14e547f8a2861cfe2d967e)
7mag at 1000.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv376%2Felkhunter%2Fth_longshot.jpg&hash=a6b254eaf738a1c376510784e3f947a7f3b623c1) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v376/elkhunter/?action=view¤t=longshot.flv)
I made this to show that its easier then most think but realy I think I look stupid in the video, but you get the point I was trying to make.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv376%2Felkhunter%2Fth_turretvideo.jpg&hash=93c9736768f30f6ae22ae13ad7b212803dbc42fa) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v376/elkhunter/?action=view¤t=turretvideo.flv)
I shot alot of video this past year but it all looks about the same, I never intended to show these, the video is just for me to review.
I'll try to get some video this winter with a few diffrent rifles and maybee some other folks shooting.
Post by: runamuk on November 28, 2009, 11:05:44 AM
Post by: huntnphool on November 28, 2009, 11:12:19 AM
Post by: Kent Hunter on November 28, 2009, 04:28:29 PM