Post by: Jekemi on November 03, 2009, 06:21:15 AM
To sooth my sorrows, when the time comes, I'd like to get a dog that I can use for both upland birds and also to retrieve ducks. Is there such a compromise or hybrid dog breed? I've heard that some labs are cross trained in this way. Any comments or recomendations?
Also, can you recommend a good trainer for such a dog? You guys have probably been asked this before.
Post by: GoldTip on November 03, 2009, 06:23:29 AM
Post by: C-Money on November 03, 2009, 06:30:50 AM
Post by: Ireland Farms on November 03, 2009, 06:58:10 AM
I'd always reccommend a lab. Of course I raise them so I'm a little partial. You can check out my website and see the hunting lines that my adult dogs have.
Good luck in whatever dog you decide on.
Post by: EastWaViking on November 03, 2009, 07:00:32 AM
Post by: SnowDog on November 03, 2009, 08:24:05 AM
Cheers!
SnowDog
Post by: Ridgerunner on November 03, 2009, 08:26:38 AM
Post by: whitey on November 03, 2009, 08:34:15 AM
But I recently traded Up for My Cooke Canyon Pointing Lab and couldnt be happier.
Either way You go I think You getting Your next hunting partner in line now is a great choice.
Sorry to hear about Your Ol Partner,Jack..Its tough.Good Luck with that.
Whitey
Post by: tlbradford on November 03, 2009, 08:35:12 AM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,31240.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,31240.0.html) :chuckle:
I always advise people to select a breed based on living conditions. How much time you can spend with them, how much yard do you have, kids at home, inside or outside sleeping, etc. A lab is a great dog for what you are looking for.
I am not a fan of labs primarily because of the vast majority having a really stubborn streak. I used a golden retriever for the past 14 years almost entirely for upland. All I needed was a dog to obey the basic commands, and be able to follow hand signals. I wanted a wide ranging pointer in my head, but my living situation at college dictated getting something I could keep in a small yard, and would pick up training quickly. I know Wayne1 does a ton of field trials so you should shoot him a pm to make sure you get his input.
Post by: Jekemi on November 03, 2009, 11:51:51 AM
Jack is a Lab/Greyhound mix. He had great long range eyesight and stamina and he would chase birds on land. He loved the water and he wasn't gun shy. But he didn't have the retrieve thing down. He could run like the wind but unlike our Greyhound, he could go all day.
Now he can't hear, has a few tumors, moves real slow, and can't hold his pee. He is one of the best dogs I ever had.
Post by: addicted on November 03, 2009, 12:05:05 PM
Post by: Rowdy on November 03, 2009, 01:36:41 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2794/4067043072_24732d1411_b.jpg
Post by: Sportfury on November 03, 2009, 06:15:40 PM
For reccomendations I would try a German Wirehair Pointer (I'm a little biased). They will do it all and make a great family dog at the same time. My girl Sofie loves the water. Her desire to retrieve is unbelievable. I can throw a dummy for an hour or more straight and she will not stop. Lake or no lake. On top of that she has a great nose and you can see her learn everytime she is out and gets into birds. Check out Lee Roots posts and there are some other posts on here about Wirehairs or DD's (Deutsch Drathaars). Main thing is to do your research as tbradford said and make sure you are getting the right dog for you. Make sure it fits your situation and hunting style.
Another place you might get more info on a variety of dogs is at http://www.uplandjournal.com. They have a bulleting board over there and you can get a lot of information on different dogs. Good luck.
Post by: TEX-X on November 05, 2009, 09:51:44 AM
Post by: luvtohnt on November 05, 2009, 10:10:03 AM
Brandon
Post by: Wacenturion on November 05, 2009, 12:41:00 PM
Once knew a particular chessy, he was a great dog. Retrieved to hand in the blind, take bird, hunting buddy would look at bird, bird put in pile in blind............do not, I repeat, do not touch birds once they go into pile....until you quit and pick up, as they are the sole property of that Chessy.........lol.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 05, 2009, 12:48:00 PM
Post by: yotehunter on November 07, 2009, 07:14:17 PM
Post by: TEX-X on November 10, 2009, 08:43:51 AM
Post by: jmoyer2 on November 11, 2009, 01:26:52 PM
I currently have a golden and a Chocolate lab puppy.
All pointers: Are awesome for upland game. However the desire to retrieve is hit or miss (alot of them have to be force fetch trained), the cold temps associated with waterfowl are very hard on them, and they have a tough time sitting still in a blind.
Golden Retrievers: I love my golden, she is a great retriever, has lots of drive in the field and blind, and a great personality. However, as with the pointers, the cold gets to her, sometimes even with a vest on. Also her coat is a pain in the a$$. She has a shorter "field coat" and i still spend about 30 min after a hunt picking briars and stickers.
Chesapeake Bay Retrievers: This is one tough, hardworking SOB. My buddy has one that I have seen break through ice to retrieve a downed bird, and never got cold. Very high retrieving desire, and also great on upland game. I did not get one because of its personality. The ones I have witnessed can be overly protective of their owners and belongings. I like to take my dogs out in public for daily runs. Them being friendly with people and other dogs is a must. Also they are usually hell bent on doing it "their way". Very stubborn. I have also heard that their coats can have a funky odor.
Spaniels: I have no experience with this breed, maybe someone could help me out here? I would imagine the long hair would be an issue.
WELL Bred Labs: Labs are awesome. My 4 month old retrieves ducks already with no problem. This breed is very durable. Cold temps are rarely and issue. Their coat keeps them warm and resists briars, stickers, etc. they have enough patience to sit in a blind with you, and enough endurance to flush upland game. They have a low liability personality, but will still bark when something is a miss.
If you can't tell, I am partial to labs. The only other dog I would consider is a GSP, for their pointing, rather than flushing, ability.
Post by: MagKarl on November 11, 2009, 03:08:09 PM
If you're not settled on a particular breed yet, I'd recommend you go watch a NAVHDA field test. There you can see a bunch of different breeds in action and meet some owners and breeders in your area.
I'm partial to Weimaraners myself.
Post by: Wa hunter on November 12, 2009, 09:18:27 PM
Post by: Gjorgy1 on November 17, 2009, 07:14:26 PM
Post by: Grizzly95 on November 17, 2009, 07:25:36 PM
Post by: robb92 on November 18, 2009, 09:52:53 AM
Post by: TEX-X on November 18, 2009, 10:17:58 AM
I've had a few GSPs... and every one of my dogs is force fetched... i believe in it... it turns something they enjoy doing into a job... plus it can also cure hard mouths and chomping.... You say that most pointers have to be force fetched like it's a bad thing... i honestly think it is an integral part of training any bird dog... if it was such a bad thing i don't think that delmar smith... or even Rick nowadays would be doing it... Pointers are bred to point birds.... be steady to wing and shot and retrieve on command... they are Considered a versatile dog according to NAVHDA.... I have hunted ducks with shorthairs.... and if the dog has any shread of yard training he will sit still in the blind... I think if i was to hunt in the arctic circle that it would affect my shorthair... but i have never had a problem in WA.... I've hunted behind a few GWP..... they are technically considered a pointer how would the cold weather be any harder on them than on a lab? You said all pointers... maybe you should revise your statement to some pointer.... not a personal attack on you i just think that maybe you had overlooked GWPs....
Post by: griff on November 22, 2009, 06:26:39 PM
Post by: Sportfury on November 22, 2009, 07:10:41 PM
a griffon is the way to go. mine, almost two, will do the duck thing and point pheasants,quail,chucker and mice (on his spair time). no problem with the cold or cold water then comes home and puts up with a 5 year old boy and a *censored*syou (?). easy training and gets along with others. a well rounded breed. the only thing that would be better would be two. :chuckle:
Lets see some pics!
Post by: luvtohnt on November 22, 2009, 07:14:12 PM
a griffon is the way to go. mine, almost two, will do the duck thing and point pheasants,quail,chucker and mice (on his spair time). no problem with the cold or cold water then comes home and puts up with a 5 year old boy and a *censored*syou (?). easy training and gets along with others. a well rounded breed. the only thing that would be better would be two. :chuckle:
My wife told me she will never allow one of those in her house because they are so ugly. I told her she better get used to seeing one because as soon as my labs are gone that is the next dog I am going to get.
Brandon
Post by: washingtonmuley on November 22, 2009, 07:18:15 PM
Post by: mad-bomber on November 24, 2009, 10:05:02 PM
Post by: 3dvapor on November 25, 2009, 06:57:38 PM
Post by: huntress4203 on November 25, 2009, 07:59:40 PM
Glo
Post by: Clumber on November 26, 2009, 09:22:14 AM
National breed club's info page L http://www.nsdtrc-usa.org/toller_info.htm (http://www.nsdtrc-usa.org/toller_info.htm)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnsdtrc-usa.org%2Fgallery_cpg%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2Fnormal_21_torifield-09.jpg&hash=c1d3a88e1f70af3eb7e4b0d03a4bfa0dfc55cffe) (https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnsdtrc-usa.org%2Fgallery_cpg%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2Fnormal_17_schoonerpheasant2-07.jpg&hash=566084cbfbea9a12251dec5e9b02db8730feda5c)
and they certainly can compete in the Cute Puppy category as well...
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnsdtrc-usa.org%2Fgallery_cpg%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2Fnormal_05PC-18.jpg&hash=fba1a243c5d220e7847cc7c5300626ad8b742b4e)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnsdtrc-usa.org%2Fgallery_cpg%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2Fnormal_05PC-18.jpg&hash=fba1a243c5d220e7847cc7c5300626ad8b742b4e)
And I do know of some Clumbers who do waterfowling, but I don't know enough about that to recommend either way.
Not in any way tossing a vote against a Lab, btw. They are awesome too. Just tossing out another option because the only thing more fun than researching breeds is opening your new pup's crate for the first time.
Give Jack a smooch on the noseball for us. We'll keep him in our thoughts.
~tracy
Not in any way tossing a vote against a Lab, btw. They are awesome too. Just tossing out another option because the only thing more fun than researching breeds is opening your new pup's crate for the first time.
Give Jack a smooch on the noseball for us. We'll keep him in our thoughts.
~tracy
Post by: griff on November 26, 2009, 07:42:44 PM
Post by: griff on November 26, 2009, 08:20:33 PM
Post by: mad-bomber on December 01, 2009, 09:16:13 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 01, 2009, 09:29:26 PM
i will agree that the labs are not a desert marathon runners but...a lab can do everything and i have never seen a brittany or spainel or? do a 300yd retrieve on a wounded goose in the current, with a tangle of seaweed.......in 10 degree whether! ha i win.sorry us LAB lovers are a little proud of are friends! :dunno:
i am with you again mad-bomber, i breed akc labs and would not have another dog in the field than a lab can do everthing and more that them hyper springers :P
Post by: mad-bomber on December 02, 2009, 06:01:26 PM
Post by: Shannon on December 02, 2009, 07:47:58 PM
Post by: mad-bomber on December 02, 2009, 10:09:01 PM
Who said pointers can't waterfowl? They haven't hunted over my dog. I will say that my pointer won't handle extreme cold like my labs though. Here in Western Washington we don't get extreme cold very often. The labs I have had couldn't hold a candle to my pointer during chukar/hun hunting. You don't see many 300 LB guys running 100 mile marathons. Labs and pointers both are great dogs but everyone has to decide for themselves what type of hunting they enjoy and do the most. When you answer that you pretty much answer which breed of dog you should get.or just buy a lab. i would love to see a pointer go after a winged goose in 2ft of weedy mud.no way the pointer could catch it in there and if he did that goose would sink the dog. or a pointer to sit quite for 10 hours in 20* snow with icicles on his hide and eyes.a lab can hunt steep desert chucker all day.might not being running as fast as a pointer half way through but the lab cab still do it.im not saying pointers are not good dogs.im just saying they cant do everything labs can do.
Post by: fishermanjoe on December 02, 2009, 10:12:05 PM
Post by: Shannon on December 03, 2009, 07:27:12 AM
I have only had labs until my most recent dog and trust me she can out hunt any lab I have ever seen on upland birds. Especially after 5-6 days of all day wide open spaced hunting. I also enjoy the beautiful points.
To each there own.
Post by: TEX-X on December 03, 2009, 07:49:28 AM
Post by: mad-bomber on December 04, 2009, 10:14:46 PM
Post by: TEX-X on December 05, 2009, 02:40:57 AM
I gotta keep my shorthair out of the berry briars cause i'm running out of EMT gel to treat the cuts on him... and to tell you the truth i hunt areas that are extemely close to the ocean... i was taking home birds... but was tired of my dog being wet as all hell.... he usually rides in the passenger seat... but now he is riding in the back
Post by: 509 on December 05, 2009, 09:22:14 AM
I have had five hunting dogs. One Irish Setter/Lab. Two labs. Two German Longhair Pointers.
The labs were wonderful dogs, but the GLP's were much better hunters. They would go into cattails and other prickly stuff far better than the labs. They lived for hunting. They were much better swimmers and waterfowl dogs than the labs. And for the old farts....they point!!! So I don't have to run after them!!! Also unlike a lab were you need a 2X4 to get their attention most GLP's respond to a stern voice. I never touched my first GLP. The second one wears a shock collar. He is only nine months old. I suspect by next year I will not need it.
Downsides to GLP's. Need lots of exercise and hunting or they get neurotic. Buy a set of heavy duty electric barber clippers to get rid of burrs and seeds. You will need them. The Germans use them for tracking and hunting deer, and other mammals. One of my GLP's retrieved lap dogs. The current puppy likes small dogs but points the cat. The cat is deathly afraid of him and he is an old tom that has survived living 5 years in coyote habitat.
There is more variability between dogs than probably breeds. The important thing is that they are your dog and that you hunt them as often as possible.
Post by: Shannon on December 06, 2009, 09:33:15 PM
The pointer I have is every bit as good a retriever as my labs. She is my first one so maybe I got lucky I don't know. The only thing I have lost with my pointer over my labs is the below freezing water retrieves and then sitting for an hour is hard on her. I will be honest and say that is her weakness for sure. Thick cattails and deep mud are no problem. She is not as big & strong as my labs but is more athletic. I will get another one for sure. Let us know what you end up getting.
Post by: Rhinoron247 on December 07, 2009, 11:20:31 PM
Post by: Jekemi on December 08, 2009, 12:42:32 PM
Thank you all for your advice. I don't think I can go wrong with either the Lab or the setter. The Lab's history of health issues concerns me but they are the best water dogs, tolerate the temp extremes, are strong swimmers, and can be easily trained.
The setter is a great all around dog and better in the field than the lab. They also have a better health history.
Since I will do more hunting of ducks and geese than upland hunting the lab may be the best way to go regardless of the other issues. I can only afford one dog.
Post by: js99 on December 08, 2009, 12:58:26 PM
Post by: poulsbo on December 13, 2009, 09:12:43 AM