Post by: BuckHunter23 on November 15, 2009, 08:04:07 PM
What are the rules about sheds and skulls with antlers attached, when the find is during the hunting season (if that even matters)?
My brother and I were hunting for elk this past weekend and while out on his hike he came across an awesome find. He found an elk skull with 4x4 horns still attached. There were no other bones or hide near by. The skull was laying next to a creek about 200 yds off the road, up in some thick timber. It looks like it had been dead for a while, since the skull was a yellowish/brown, and it had been picked clean, with the exception of a little fatty tissue at the base of the antlers.. My guess is an archery kill that wasn't found...but odd that there were no othe parts of the animal nearby.
Your thoughts...what should we have done? Would you have kept it?
Post by: stumprat on November 15, 2009, 08:05:39 PM
Post by: Huntbear on November 15, 2009, 08:09:16 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on November 15, 2009, 08:14:09 PM
Post by: agchawk on November 15, 2009, 08:15:25 PM
Post by: jjdavis2222 on November 15, 2009, 08:16:12 PM
Post by: Galpster on November 15, 2009, 08:18:34 PM
Post by: Galpster on November 15, 2009, 08:20:02 PM
Yup. The law is in place to keep unethical folks that might pop a big buck or bull and then return later and say they "found" it. I won't argue with the validity of the law...but that's why it's there. Just as they say, "A few bad apples will spoil the barrel."
Now that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. Looks like it has to go back. ;)
Post by: jjdavis2222 on November 15, 2009, 08:20:11 PM
Post by: 509er on November 15, 2009, 08:20:35 PM
Post by: agchawk on November 15, 2009, 08:21:50 PM
So is he supposed to go put it back and wait for the antlers to fall off the skull to take it home? I think I would call a gamey and get clarification. You did nothing wrong and it is just going to fall apart laying in the woods. Maybe they will let you keep it.
By law, he's not supposed to keep it at all. However, it would be tough to leave it as it lay...but that's the law.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 15, 2009, 08:23:23 PM
Yup. The law is in place to keep unethical folks that might pop a big buck or bull and then return later and say they "found" it. I won't argue with the validity of the law...but that's why it's there. Just as they say, "A few bad apples will spoil the barrel."
well said
Post by: 509er on November 15, 2009, 08:26:53 PM
Post by: Hunterman on November 15, 2009, 08:27:49 PM
Hunterman(Tony)
Post by: jackelope on November 15, 2009, 08:33:38 PM
dumb law, agreed...but you may want to reconsider posting your story and pics on a website frequented by game wardens.
Post by: agchawk on November 15, 2009, 08:35:36 PM
you have now posted photo-proof of you breaking the law on the internet and provided the gamies with your email address and other info so they can track you down.
dumb law, agreed...but you may want to reconsider posting your story and pics on a website frequented by game wardens.
I was going to say the same thing my friend. Not wise to post proof on a public forum.
Post by: Bigshooter on November 15, 2009, 08:57:36 PM
you have now posted photo-proof of you breaking the law on the internet and provided the gamies with your email address and other info so they can track you down.
dumb law, agreed...but you may want to reconsider posting your story and pics on a website frequented by game wardens.
I was going to say the same thing my friend. Not wise to post proof on a public forum.
I wouldn't worry about a game warden doing anything about this. If this is the kind of stuff they are worried about we don't need any game warden's.
Post by: jackelope on November 15, 2009, 09:00:17 PM
again, i think it's a bum law, but it is a law.
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on November 16, 2009, 12:15:10 AM
Quote
So is he supposed to go put it back and wait for the antlers to fall off the skull to take it home? I think I would call a gamey and get clarification. You did nothing wrong and it is just going to fall apart laying in the woods. Maybe they will let you keep it.The antlers will never fall off unless the skull rots.
If you picked it up already , I see nothing unethical about keeping a "treasure" ......now if it was a huge rack there might be some suspicion.......
Post by: teal101 on November 24, 2009, 04:08:41 PM
Post by: Buckmark on November 24, 2009, 04:21:16 PM
Break the skull off around the base of the antlers. Problem solved :chuckle:Be carefull with this also, laws states "Naturally shed" not broken off or with any portion of the skull attached.
Dumb a*$ law..
Post by: huntnphool on November 24, 2009, 04:24:04 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on November 24, 2009, 04:30:11 PM
Post by: BLKBEARKLR on November 24, 2009, 04:35:38 PM
I picked a skull up many of years ago in the Entiat. A few years ago it fell off the trellis. Horns popped off like perfect sheds. You couldn't tell they weren't sheds. Worked out good for me. Also, I've seen them kicked off in perfect shed form........anyone want to comment?
Gee congratulations, you broke the law and got away with it so far. That good enough of a comment????
Post by: wastickslinger on November 24, 2009, 06:20:17 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on November 24, 2009, 06:32:33 PM
Quote
I picked a skull up many of years ago in the Entiat. A few years ago it fell off the trellis. Horns popped off like perfect sheds. You couldn't tell they weren't sheds. Worked out good for me. Also, I've seen them kicked off in perfect shed form........anyone want to comment?
I have a 5X7 Elk skull in my yard, been with me for 20 years, you wanna come over and kick it ?
Or my 4X4 Mulie ?
Or my 2x2 mulie ?
Or step on my whitetail spike skull ?
Depending on time of year that the animal died would have an influence on whether or not they would come off.
An animal that died during Sept would probably not lose them......"anyone want to comment ?" WTF?
Post by: Grizzly95 on November 24, 2009, 06:53:08 PM
Post by: alecvg on November 24, 2009, 07:03:07 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on November 24, 2009, 07:06:51 PM
Or my 4X4 Mulie ?
Or my 2x2 mulie ?
Or step on my whitetail spike skull ?
Depending on time of year that the animal died would have an influence on whether or not they would come off.
An animal that died during Sept would probably not lose them......"anyone want to comment ?" WTF?
[/quote
]Damn. What's your deal? Was hoping the guy who kicked the horns off that buck in late February would comment, as he's a frequent member and had the idea before me!
Dugan, post that pic from the other day of that dandy roadkill that had to be left, only for someone else to cut the antlers off. >:( >:( >:(
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on November 24, 2009, 07:19:46 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on November 24, 2009, 07:22:01 PM
Quote
Was hoping the guy who kicked the horns off that buck in late February would comment
Post by: mossback91 on November 24, 2009, 07:26:03 PM
Post by: DUGANDEER on November 24, 2009, 07:59:46 PM
Post by: Buckmark on November 24, 2009, 08:13:11 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on November 24, 2009, 08:23:43 PM
QuoteI picked a skull up many of years ago in the Entiat. A few years ago it fell off the trellis. Horns popped off like perfect sheds. You couldn't tell they weren't sheds. Worked out good for me. Also, I've seen them kicked off in perfect shed form........anyone want to comment?
I have a 5X7 Elk skull in my yard, been with me for 20 years, you wanna come over and kick it ?
Or my 4X4 Mulie ?
Or my 2x2 mulie ?
Or step on my whitetail spike skull ?
Depending on time of year that the animal died would have an influence on whether or not they would come off.
An animal that died during Sept would probably not lose them......"anyone want to comment ?" WTF?
Probably pretty rare but I spotted a dead head in February a few years back. Picked it up to admire(I was going to leave it of course) and plunk.... right side popped off right in my hand!!!! So I though what the heck, pulled on the other side and no go. Smacked it on the ground a few times and plunk off it came too, a little rougher though.
:dunno: Odd but true!!
Post by: cascademountainhunter on November 24, 2009, 08:29:29 PM
Post by: WARHORSE on November 24, 2009, 08:34:50 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on November 24, 2009, 08:35:07 PM
Post by: WARHORSE on November 24, 2009, 08:42:22 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on November 25, 2009, 07:47:56 AM
Post by: andrew_12gauge on November 25, 2009, 07:53:46 AM
Not sure on Idaho law, but the wife of a friend of mine found a huge, I mean huge bull elk skull while hiking outside of Priest River years ago. It may help that she works for the forest service, but she has shown it off with no law issues; but like I said Idaho :dunno: I have come across some spikes and little forkies before, not quite trophy materials and I figured I would leave them for the squirrels and rodents to chew on. Circle of life I guess.
perfectly legal in idaho to pick up any animal that died of natural causes, road kill still does not fit that bill
Post by: MtnMuley on November 25, 2009, 07:58:40 AM
Post by: Hillbilly270 on November 25, 2009, 08:08:14 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on November 25, 2009, 08:10:17 AM
Post by: Joe_Hunter on November 25, 2009, 08:35:31 AM
I know that most of us are law abiding citizens and would never poach an animal only to return later to claim our prize but it's obvious that these laws exist for some reason so it's a pretty good bet that Simone somewhere sometime ago shot a critter left it and returned later to claim it.
That sucks.
Post by: Bean Counter on November 25, 2009, 08:36:14 AM
how do you explain all the skulls we have laying around the house or in the garage? Do you all keep tags with them? I surely dont have a tag on every head in my garage.
Tags are to be kept with the largest portion of meat remaining--not the hides/skull.
Post by: boneaddict on November 25, 2009, 08:37:48 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2Fantlersidaho.jpg&hash=ba7c5c695ca280263e3af5459e0be98ed01baa91)
Post by: boneaddict on November 25, 2009, 08:38:35 AM
Post by: WAPITIHUNTER on November 25, 2009, 08:40:54 AM
Post by: boneaddict on November 25, 2009, 08:41:40 AM
Post by: andrew_12gauge on November 25, 2009, 08:57:33 AM
Unfortunately the laws in this state are pretty clear on this. Dead animals must be left to lay where they are and may not be kept. Even winter kill animals with obvious signs that it was not taken recently must be discarded.
I know that most of us are law abiding citizens and would never poach an animal only to return later to claim our prize but it's obvious that these laws exist for some reason so it's a pretty good bet that Simone somewhere sometime ago shot a critter left it and returned later to claim it.
That sucks.
that is exactly why these types of laws exist a guy did exactly that in colorado several years ago, he would go out and shoot muley bucks during the late elk seasons and then hang the heads in the trees until spring go back and get the skulls and claim them as winter kills exactly why laws like this are in place
Post by: boneaddict on November 25, 2009, 09:03:14 AM
NM operates the same way.
Post by: MtnMuley on November 25, 2009, 12:21:07 PM
Post by: a.lee.hagen on January 20, 2010, 07:31:06 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 20, 2010, 07:56:25 PM
Post by: bankwalker on January 21, 2010, 06:06:03 PM
anyway i left it sitting on the stump next to the pull off, and was gonna have my dad meet up with me so i can take it home. as we pulled away some guy pulled up and grabbed it. my uncle wouldnt stop and let me hide it...he is a jerk.
it was the most heart breaking day to watch someone else take it. and i know i will never ever see anything like that again.
Post by: huntnphool on January 21, 2010, 06:12:17 PM
Post by: alecvg on January 21, 2010, 06:17:45 PM
Well at least you can sleep well at night knowing you did the right thing and didn't break the law, I bet the guy that grabbed it can't sleep at all. :rolleyes:
LOL, I am sure!
Post by: Deep Forks on January 25, 2010, 01:50:24 AM
I have found a couple muley skulls with horns attached that had died from unknown causes (they were not connected to the body) and I took them. They were close to a year old or so and in one case there were some bones around the site. I know several wardens and under the circumstances of these two finds I don't believe they would give a hoot. I know one warden who has a trophy bull and buck in his house and he never shot them. Road kills are a different story, when you have to cut the horns off the skull or head off the spine that's wrong.
But when you find a skull and horns from an animal that has been dead long enough that predator's have separated the body parts and the meat and hair are non-exsistant, that's a lucky find :)
Post by: littlebuf on January 25, 2010, 02:59:55 PM
Post by: wrangler on January 25, 2010, 03:15:29 PM
Post by: Buckmark on January 25, 2010, 03:19:46 PM
I am at work and do not have the law in front of me so any insite??
Post by: littlebuf on January 25, 2010, 03:22:18 PM
Post by: Buckmark on January 25, 2010, 03:25:06 PM
I did find a domestic cat skull out pheasant hunting once, and yes i kept it.
Post by: littlebuf on January 25, 2010, 04:05:01 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 25, 2010, 04:25:32 PM
I have found several deer, some with pretty nice racks like in post #21 and this one below, all of which had to be left. The bummer is I am sure someone else picked them up. :bash:
Post by: littlebuf on January 25, 2010, 04:33:24 PM
Post by: littlebuf on January 25, 2010, 05:14:13 PM
Post by: wrangler on January 25, 2010, 06:29:54 PM
no skulls period. that's how it reads. I'm curious to you guys that roll your eyes and say well i took it any way, how do you decide what game laws you will follow and what ones you will break? i may not agree with it but its a regulation that is in place.
i don't sit around and think about breaking game laws or how i can get around certain laws or whatever, in fact i can't think of another instance where iv ever broken a game law? even so, im sure you've rolled through a stop sign a few times, or maybe won some money at a casino and not reported it on your tax forms. ever got a speeding ticket? i bet you still speed... get what im sayin? its not like poaching or even cutting the horns of road kill (which i doubt i would do) or off a a fresh cougar kill. IM talking about a year or 2 old broken up skull with bleached out moss covered antlers. is it against the 'law'? sure. am i a criminal? hell no. no more than anyone who's not come to a complete stop at a stop sign. thats how i feel anyways. now if it were a big horn sheep... maaaaaaaaaybe a different story. :chuckle:
Post by: littlebuf on January 25, 2010, 07:23:14 PM
Post by: bankwalker on January 25, 2010, 08:07:06 PM
Well at least you can sleep well at night knowing you did the right thing and didn't break the law, I bet the guy that grabbed it can't sleep at all. :rolleyes:
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: wrangler on January 25, 2010, 08:51:49 PM
sorry i don't equate 4 way stops to wildlife management or associated game regulations. i drive because i have to to get around, i hunt because i couldn't live with out it. ones a passion ones a necessity. no matter how many people do the "California stop" we will still be able to drive. our hunting privileges are under attack constantly. if you don't like a game reg get active in changing it somehow, if your that passionate about those skulls you find leave them there and get going on changing the reg. oops theres that integrity again :dunno:
im not passionate enough about em to give a damn one way or another, they're just some old skulls with horns and i just chose to take the 2 nice ones i found, so be it. taking a 2 year old skull outa the woods off public land whether its a law not has nothing to do with integrity. i pick up my fair share of garbage and old shotgun hulls, i pack out what i pack in, i take the time to make ethical one shot kills and i take every last scrap of meat. i got plenty of integrity to go around. get off your high horse. or don't, whatever.
Post by: Special T on January 25, 2010, 09:28:13 PM
Post by: littlebuf on January 25, 2010, 10:04:21 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on January 26, 2010, 05:35:27 AM
I am not going to question some guys ethic's if they find some decaying skull in the woods and take it home and hang it on the wall. I couldn't think of a better owner of the skull...
When I was driving the other day I had to speed to pass a slow car.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 26, 2010, 05:52:31 AM
Post by: boneaddict on January 26, 2010, 06:24:17 AM
Post by: hirshey on January 26, 2010, 09:30:27 AM
... I was working on the 2007 Ahorn wildfire near Augusta with pretty much the sweetest assignment I had ever had: I was tasked to stay at a $60 million ranch in the middle of the wilderness with a crew and provide structure protection. It was the Klick family ranch, which has property in between the two forks of the Sun river... bordered by wilderness on one side, a wildlife preserve on another, and two sides by national forest. (can you say most amazing place to go back and hunt? Their waiting list is years long...)
While working the fire, I found some AMAZING trophies: a big horn sheep skull (found both caps, too!), moose sheds, and an awesome elk shed. More than anything I just wanted to show other people to allow these things to be appriciated.
Mr Klick calmly told me the following story...
"you know, David Letterman offered us some $100 million for this ranch a while back... we gracefully declined. He found himself one nearly 50 miles north as the crow flies... one day, someone attempted to kidnap his offspring... unsuccessfully. Well, they knew who it was, so raided the fellows house... in the process, they found a few trophy animals hanging on the wall that the man had illegally taken." (whether that was to mean he killed them or took their horns post-death I don't know) "well, they immediately dropped the attempted kidnapping charges and pursued the charges for illegal possession of game animals, because it was greater fines and jail time than attempted kidnapping in Montana."
Needless to say I put all my trophies back. :)
Post by: jjdavis2222 on January 26, 2010, 09:59:16 AM
But when you find a skull and horns from an animal that has been dead long enough that predator's have separated the body parts and the meat and hair are non-exsistant, that's a lucky find
:yeah:
Post by: Axle on January 26, 2010, 12:35:04 PM
Quote
My guess is an archery kill that wasn't found...but odd that there were no othe parts of the animal nearby
And my guess is that is was a rifle kill that wasn't found.
Makes as much sense doesn't it?
Post by: jackelope on January 26, 2010, 12:45:36 PM
Post by: Buckmark on January 26, 2010, 01:08:40 PM
Now Bone has one on this post that he got in Idaho, which someone else said was legal and the gamie said he could keep.(no problem)
Huntingphool has one he got in montana that the gamie said he could keep due to it's condition. (no problem)
Bone also said a person (lady) was able to pickup and retain a sheep skull after letting the gamies know about it and they gave her the ok.
So has anyone on here ever gotten premission from a gamie in this state to pickup and retain a skull? If so how would they make the decision to go outside the law and say it is ok? What parameters do they use? The laws states only naturally shed with no mention of or if it is this old or obviuosly old and weathered/white?
Also what if you own property and the animal dies on said property over the winter, do you just let it lie or is it then yours because of were it perished?
Post by: huntandjeep on January 26, 2010, 02:12:42 PM
Post by: Deep Forks on January 26, 2010, 02:30:05 PM
no skulls period. that's how it reads. I'm curious to you guys that roll your eyes and say well i took it any way, how do you decide what game laws you will follow and what ones you will break? i may not agree with it but its a regulation that is in place.I didn't roll my eyes just smiled when I seen them. Read my reply #60, these were old, meat free, bleached and scattered. The reason I took them was common sense told me that no enforcement officer would concider this to be what the law was written for as do I.
I won't intentionally run a stop sign or break the laws of the road because this could hurt or fatally injure someone, picking up an old skull won't. :)
Post by: woodswalker on January 26, 2010, 04:27:23 PM
no skulls period. that's how it reads. I'm curious to you guys that roll your eyes and say well i took it any way, how do you decide what game laws you will follow and what ones you will break? i may not agree with it but its a regulation that is in place.
buf, the only ones i have were with written permission. I've passed on some BEAUTIES... :'( only to have someone ELSE grab them before I could get permission :bash:
Post by: andrew_12gauge on January 26, 2010, 04:41:47 PM
All I can say is make sure you don't do that in Montana!
... I was working on the 2007 Ahorn wildfire near Augusta with pretty much the sweetest assignment I had ever had: I was tasked to stay at a $60 million ranch in the middle of the wilderness with a crew and provide structure protection. It was the Klick family ranch, which has property in between the two forks of the Sun river... bordered by wilderness on one side, a wildlife preserve on another, and two sides by national forest. (can you say most amazing place to go back and hunt? Their waiting list is years long...)
While working the fire, I found some AMAZING trophies: a big horn sheep skull (found both caps, too!), moose sheds, and an awesome elk shed. More than anything I just wanted to show other people to allow these things to be appriciated.
Mr Klick calmly told me the following story...
"you know, David Letterman offered us some $100 million for this ranch a while back... we gracefully declined. He found himself one nearly 50 miles north as the crow flies... one day, someone attempted to kidnap his offspring... unsuccessfully. Well, they knew who it was, so raided the fellows house... in the process, they found a few trophy animals hanging on the wall that the man had illegally taken." (whether that was to mean he killed them or took their horns post-death I don't know) "well, they immediately dropped the attempted kidnapping charges and pursued the charges for illegal possession of game animals, because it was greater fines and jail time than attempted kidnapping in Montana."
Needless to say I put all my trophies back. :)
they were not illegally picked up they were illegally killed, one of them was the new state record typical muley,i highly doubt that the charges for illegal possession of game are carry greater jail time and fines than kidnapping, i believe kidnapping can carry a life sentece
Post by: hirshey on January 26, 2010, 08:39:06 PM
they were not illegally picked up they were illegally killed, one of them was the new state record typical muley,i highly doubt that the charges for illegal possession of game are carry greater jail time and fines than kidnapping, i believe kidnapping can carry a life sentece
"attempted kidnapping"... and it IS Montana. The value they put on their wild game is pretty high. :)
I just repeated the story as I heard it...
thought I'd throw in a fun story since it was getting so serious in this thread. :)
Post by: Archery King on January 26, 2010, 08:59:41 PM
Post by: nwhunter on January 26, 2010, 09:40:33 PM
Post by: washelkhntr on January 26, 2010, 09:49:01 PM
Post by: Special T on January 26, 2010, 09:53:22 PM
Post by: TONTO on January 26, 2010, 10:17:55 PM
Post by: Hangfire on January 26, 2010, 10:35:37 PM
Since my friend works for DNR he got permission to hang the head in a DNR office. The horns are never to leave the office and remain state property.
Post by: wrangler on January 27, 2010, 09:28:28 AM
A few years ago a friend was archery hunting elk in the Blue Mt's. He had a game biologist with him or had met him in the woods. My friend found a large dead bull that looked like it died from injury in a fight. This bull was 360 plus class bull. The biologist could not give him permission to bring the head out. They cell phoned a agent who gave them permission to bring the head out, but said it belongs to the state.
Since my friend works for DNR he got permission to hang the head in a DNR office. The horns are never to leave the office and remain state property.
oh brother... :rolleyes:
Post by: boneaddict on January 27, 2010, 02:51:35 PM
Quote
Just to stir the pot a little.
Now Bone has one on this post that he got in Idaho, which someone else said was legal and the gamie said he could keep.(no problem)
Huntingphool has one he got in montana that the gamie said he could keep due to it's condition. (no problem)
Bone also said a person (lady) was able to pickup and retain a sheep skull after letting the gamies know about it and they gave her the ok.
So has anyone on here ever gotten premission from a gamie in this state to pickup and retain a skull? If so how would they make the decision to go outside the law and say it is ok? What parameters do they use? The laws states only naturally shed with no mention of or if it is this old or obviuosly old and weathered/white?
Also what if you own property and the animal dies on said property over the winter, do you just let it lie or is it then yours because of were it perished?
IT WOULD BE NICE....if it was written like NM law. It is unlawful to pick up but if you give coordinates, photos, etc, they will investigate it and allow you to have it. I copy and pasted it on here somewhere how it reads exactly. I found out it isn't illegal in Idaho, but I haven't confirmed that and I wasn't going to take any chances. The lady and the sheep skull still amazes me.
Post by: Cougeyes on January 28, 2010, 09:43:38 PM
A few years ago a friend was archery hunting elk in the Blue Mt's. He had a game biologist with him or had met him in the woods. My friend found a large dead bull that looked like it died from injury in a fight. This bull was 360 plus class bull.This story sounds familiar, i think i saw a picture of the bull and it was a toad if its the same bull deffinetly 360+
Post by: boneaddict on January 29, 2010, 09:27:38 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2FAntler%2520Images%2Fwhatwolvesdo.jpg&hash=a5e7f934fb787ef2f0636298be811e3043b29333)
Post by: NWBREW on January 29, 2010, 09:30:08 AM
Post by: boneaddict on January 29, 2010, 08:29:54 PM
Post by: HHPro on January 29, 2010, 08:40:48 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 29, 2010, 08:45:34 PM
Post by: hirshey on January 29, 2010, 09:49:53 PM
Thanks for sharing the photo though! Hope the critters pick it clean for you soon. :)
Post by: boneaddict on January 30, 2010, 06:10:04 AM
Post by: cannon-master on February 26, 2010, 08:19:04 PM
Post by: gasman on February 26, 2010, 08:21:28 PM
You may reach more eyes if you post a new thread about your story.
Post by: ICEMAN on February 27, 2010, 07:29:38 PM
Post by: huntnphool on February 28, 2010, 12:01:34 AM
Post by: Rudy on March 01, 2010, 12:03:48 PM
Post by: boneaddict on March 01, 2010, 01:02:31 PM
Post by: whacker1 on March 01, 2010, 01:16:11 PM
:police: