Post by: EastWaViking on December 05, 2009, 11:02:00 AM
1. Mature Whitetail
2. Mature Blacktail
3. Young Whitetail
4. Mature Mule Deer
5. Young Mule Deer
6. Young Blacktail
Actually a grouse and a spike blacktail would tie for 6th place. :chuckle:
Post by: Kowsrule30 on December 05, 2009, 11:57:38 AM
Post by: Huntbear on December 05, 2009, 12:05:12 PM
Post by: EastWaViking on December 05, 2009, 12:12:27 PM
IMO a mature BT is the hardest to tag.... 7/8 of the country has a mature whitetail on their wall....
True, but I'm saying the smartest deer not the most hunted. I think a big blacktail is a real trophy and hard to get, because there are not that many of them. But as far as wit and cunning, I think they are second to whitetail. I have had mature blacktail bucks stop and offer a second shot, never had that happen with a whitetail.
Post by: robescc on December 05, 2009, 04:28:27 PM
Post by: shawnb on December 05, 2009, 04:39:44 PM
Post by: littlebuf on December 05, 2009, 04:40:39 PM
Post by: EastWaViking on December 05, 2009, 04:46:39 PM
Post by: littlebuf on December 05, 2009, 04:50:08 PM
You need to have hunted and killed a mature buck of each species to be able to answer the question. I still say Whitetail hands down are the smartest deer. Blacktail bucks just move more at night, but they are not nearly as cunning and aware as a whitetail. Blacktail are a slightly higher IQ muley... at least that's my experience.
:rolleyes: sounds like a east sider
Post by: EastWaViking on December 05, 2009, 04:51:13 PM
You need to have hunted and killed a mature buck of each species to be able to answer the question. I still say Whitetail hands down are the smartest deer. Blacktail bucks just move more at night, but they are not nearly as cunning and aware as a whitetail. Blacktail are a slightly higher IQ muley... at least that's my experience.
:rolleyes: sounds like a east sider
a both sider actually. ;) 11 years on the West side the rest on the best side.
Post by: EastWaViking on December 05, 2009, 04:55:28 PM
Post by: littlebuf on December 05, 2009, 04:59:56 PM
Post by: EastWaViking on December 05, 2009, 05:07:34 PM
Post by: NWBREW on December 05, 2009, 05:09:19 PM
all ive got is blacktails, white tails are to easy so i dont hunt them ;)
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: NWBREW on December 05, 2009, 05:16:07 PM
Post by: Big10gauge on December 05, 2009, 05:23:11 PM
Post by: EastWaViking on December 05, 2009, 05:26:13 PM
You guys need to define how you hunt them, whitetails are fairly easy to ambush from a stand, or rattle in. Harder to stalk in the woods. Also whether rifle or bow.
I'm basically meaning if you took a mule deer a white tail and a black tail and stuck them in the same wood lot, under the same conditions, not during the rut, and still hunted them, bow or rifle.
Post by: Big10gauge on December 05, 2009, 05:31:44 PM
You guys need to define how you hunt them, whitetails are fairly easy to ambush from a stand, or rattle in. Harder to stalk in the woods. Also whether rifle or bow.
I'm basically meaning if you took a mule deer a white tail and a black tail and stuck them in the same wood lot, under the same conditions, not during the rut, and still hunted them, bow or rifle.
I'll go with the Whitetail, But only shot 1 Blacktail with my bow.
Post by: NWBREW on December 05, 2009, 05:32:42 PM
You guys need to define how you hunt them, whitetails are fairly easy to ambush from a stand, or rattle in. Harder to stalk in the woods. Also whether rifle or bow.
I'm basically meaning if you took a mule deer a white tail and a black tail and stuck them in the same wood lot, under the same conditions, not during the rut, and still hunted them, bow or rifle.
I don't see how you could do that. They are different kinds of deer and you hunt them differently..or at least I do. Rifle or bow doesn't matter either. I hunt with a rifle now but the last 4 bucks I've killed were all within 40 yards. 1- 5x5 and 3- 4x4's. As for the smartest deer...doesn't matter, no one kills the smartest ones. :P
Post by: Axle on December 05, 2009, 05:38:35 PM
Post by: NWBREW on December 05, 2009, 05:41:30 PM
Blacktails taste better
I've heard once you go blacktail you never go back.......just what I've heard. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: EastWaViking on December 05, 2009, 05:48:14 PM
I don't see how you could do that. They are different kinds of deer and you hunt them differently..or at least I do. Rifle or bow doesn't matter either. I hunt with a rifle now but the last 4 bucks I've killed were all within 40 yards. 1- 5x5 and 3- 4x4's. As for the smartest deer...doesn't matter, no one kills the smartest ones. :P
Well, probably not the best thread I've ever started, I just was figuring it'd be a good debate.
Post by: Big10gauge on December 05, 2009, 06:02:16 PM
Post by: NWBREW on December 05, 2009, 06:09:41 PM
I don't see how you could do that. They are different kinds of deer and you hunt them differently..or at least I do. Rifle or bow doesn't matter either. I hunt with a rifle now but the last 4 bucks I've killed were all within 40 yards. 1- 5x5 and 3- 4x4's. As for the smartest deer...doesn't matter, no one kills the smartest ones. :P
Well, probably not the best thread I've ever started, I just was figuring it'd be a good debate.
Hey....I liked it. Like I said....I only kill the dumb ones so my opinion shouldn't count.
Post by: alecvg on December 05, 2009, 06:10:18 PM
Post by: NWBREW on December 05, 2009, 06:15:49 PM
Post by: walleye1 on December 05, 2009, 06:30:35 PM
Post by: EastWaViking on December 05, 2009, 07:27:10 PM
last i checked mule deer is the hardest n american animal to put in the book
...but the easiest to stalk. :twocents:
Post by: Track-er on December 05, 2009, 07:29:16 PM
MULE DEER 2004
BLACKTAIL 2009
Post by: EastWaViking on December 05, 2009, 07:30:33 PM
Maybe this thread should be what is the hardest deer to hunt. :dunno:....In north america that is. :stirthepot: :chuckle:
Hardest deer to hunt would be a big blacktail, no question. Just because there are not that many of them and, like people have already said, they live in the thick nasty stuff.
(WT are still smarter) ;)
Post by: EastWaViking on December 05, 2009, 07:32:08 PM
Post by: EastWaViking on December 05, 2009, 07:38:15 PM
Post by: Track-er on December 05, 2009, 07:40:39 PM
Mike
Post by: Kowsrule30 on December 05, 2009, 07:42:17 PM
all ive got is blacktails, white tails are to easy so i dont hunt them ;)
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
So true.... My Uncle quit hunting WT because they were too easy.... Now he hasn't got a deer in a while chasing Mule and BT... :chuckle:
Post by: Sneaky on December 05, 2009, 07:43:19 PM
Post by: EastWaViking on December 05, 2009, 07:46:09 PM
Post by: Sneaky on December 05, 2009, 07:50:36 PM
Well put Sneaky, I pretty much agree with you 100%
Those deer in the big woods east of your place are some of the smartest in the country
Post by: Firstlight on December 05, 2009, 07:55:44 PM
You always see them before the season gets going. Typical pattern every day. Same pic times on the game camera. Then BAM! GONE. The only thing we get going for us is when they are rutting hard. :twocents:
Post by: Dadbear on December 05, 2009, 07:59:42 PM
Post by: EastWaViking on December 05, 2009, 08:06:51 PM
Mature blacktail.
Your opinion definitely counts. Post a pic of your big WT AND big blacktail!
(I said your opinion counts... not that it's correct) :chuckle:
Post by: WAPITIHUNTER on December 05, 2009, 08:23:34 PM
Post by: EastWaViking on December 05, 2009, 08:35:32 PM
Did anyone ever administer an IQ test to actually determine which is smarter. I wonder if you did laboratory testing and put rose bushes at the end of a maze which deer would get it figured out first? :chuckle:
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Kowsrule30 on December 05, 2009, 08:41:02 PM
Did anyone ever administer an IQ test to actually determine which is smarter. I wonder if you did laboratory testing and put rose bushes at the end of a maze which deer would get it figured out first? :chuckle:
Definitely the BT... Ate all the tulips too... :chuckle:
Post by: BLR 243 on December 05, 2009, 08:58:38 PM
Post by: WAPITIHUNTER on December 05, 2009, 09:03:48 PM
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
What the heck did that masher score? What a HOG!
Post by: littlebuf on December 05, 2009, 09:11:25 PM
WHITETAIL 2006
MULE DEER 2004
BLACKTAIL 2009
im really going to stir the pot now. i do believe #3 was determined to be a bench leg :stirthepot: so where do they fit in
Post by: WAPITIHUNTER on December 05, 2009, 09:20:11 PM
NOT THAT SMART IF YOU ASK ME. :dunno:
Post by: the1rod on December 05, 2009, 09:21:06 PM
Post by: EastWaViking on December 05, 2009, 09:38:40 PM
blacktail are harder to find, but not as weary once confronted, but the whitetail are easyer to find but, more elusive once alerted.
You nailed it.
Post by: Track-er on December 05, 2009, 09:40:26 PM
Mike
Post by: littlebuf on December 05, 2009, 10:25:01 PM
i do believe #3 was determined to be a bench leg.It's a cascade blacktail.
Mike
touchy subject? or just reaffirming what i called it?
Post by: Chewack Slayer on December 05, 2009, 11:30:23 PM
Post by: Dadbear on December 06, 2009, 12:23:35 PM
Mature blacktail.
Your opinion definitely counts. Post a pic of your big WT AND big blacktail!
(I said your opinion counts... not that it's correct) :chuckle:
As long as I know I'm right... that's all that matters! ;)
Post by: EastWaViking on December 06, 2009, 01:43:51 PM
Mature blacktail.
Your opinion definitely counts. Post a pic of your big WT AND big blacktail!
(I said your opinion counts... not that it's correct) :chuckle:
As long as I know I'm right... that's all that matters! ;)
What do you know...you live on "the coast" :P
Post by: rasbo on December 06, 2009, 02:03:53 PM
Post by: washelkhntr on December 06, 2009, 02:05:18 PM
Post by: EastWaViking on December 06, 2009, 02:30:27 PM
BTW that argument doesn't hold water, there are many million more whitetail in the US than there are blacktail. (how many musk ox hunting shows have you seen, not very many... is it because Musk Ox are so smart? I don't think so.) Most hunting shows are ran by a bunch of lazy ego maniacs who hunt ranches and feeders, and are more interested in selling their sponsors products than actually hunting the way most of us do. :twocents:
Post by: NWBREW on December 06, 2009, 02:38:21 PM
how many shows are they actually hunting period?
BTW that argument doesn't hold water, there are many million more whitetail in the US than there are blacktail. (how many musk ox hunting shows have you seen, not very many... is it because Musk Ox are so smart? I don't think so.) Most hunting shows are ran by a bunch of lazy ego maniacs who hunt ranches and feeders, and are more interested in selling their sponsors products than actually hunting the way most of us do. :twocents:
I agree 100% with that comment but with that being said I've seen a good number of "hunting shows" hunting blactails. Mostly it's down in Oregon or northern Cal.. I do think the blacktails in washington are harder to hunt because of the thickness of the country. And if you throw hunting on public lands in with the mix....well it can be pretty nasty. As for which one is harder to hunt or which one is smarter........ :dunno:. :twocents:
Post by: Kowsrule30 on December 06, 2009, 03:41:54 PM
how many shows are they actually hunting period?
BTW that argument doesn't hold water, there are many million more whitetail in the US than there are blacktail. (how many musk ox hunting shows have you seen, not very many... is it because Musk Ox are so smart? I don't think so.) Most hunting shows are ran by a bunch of lazy ego maniacs who hunt ranches and feeders, and are more interested in selling their sponsors products than actually hunting the way most of us do. :twocents:
So it's definetly BT.... They're not stupid enough to live in places like that... :chuckle:
Post by: Dirt_Bag on December 06, 2009, 03:42:18 PM
Post by: EastWaViking on December 06, 2009, 03:48:36 PM
I guess it's like the Ford vs Chevy debate. No wrong or right answer...
Except Ford is better. :stirthepot:
Post by: Kowsrule30 on December 06, 2009, 04:00:33 PM
can not. :P
I guess it's like the Ford vs Chevy debate. No wrong or right answer...
Except Ford is better. :stirthepot:
HAHA!! GM's rule the ring..
Post by: Kent Hunter on December 06, 2009, 04:31:43 PM
Post by: Pazn25 on December 06, 2009, 07:28:30 PM
Mature Blacktail. Hands down. I would like to see a hunting show come to Washington or Oregon and hunt em. Then we can see what they are really made of.:yeah:
Post by: mad-bomber on December 06, 2009, 11:34:29 PM
Post by: M_ray on December 07, 2009, 12:30:17 AM
Post by: littlebuf on December 07, 2009, 03:01:20 PM
whitetail is KING!!! mule deer stink they are prairie rats! blacktail are just a stinky muley that is smart enought to know they should try to act like a whitetail!!! jungle rats!! come try to get close to a whitetail in the wheat fields of the east
:rolleyes: come try and just SEE a blacktail over here in the jungle.
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 07, 2009, 03:37:39 PM
I think mature muleys have got to be considered for top place. They are "open country" animals where I hunt them. Not many places to hide, but I am constantly amazed each November at what I see that made it through the season. And they don't live in deep, dark, thick woods like whitetails and blacktails.
Post by: EastWaViking on December 07, 2009, 05:34:33 PM
Have never hunted blacktails, so I don't know about them. Up until a few years ago, I would have said whitetails. But I have seensome mature mule deer do some things that boggled my mind. Couple that with the fact that last year we got an early snow, right at the end of the rut and I saw muley bucks in my area that I never knew existed...
I think mature muleys have got to be considered for top place. They are "open country" animals where I hunt them. Not many places to hide, but I am constantly amazed each November at what I see that made it through the season. And they don't live in deep, dark, thick woods like whitetails and blacktails.
I can see your point. This fall when I was hunting Mule Deer in Eastern Wyoming I found them hiding in the tiniest places. One was hid in a dry creek bed that was no more than 3 feet across and 3 feet deep. I would have never seen him but I was going up the creek bed to stay hidden as well.
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 07, 2009, 05:44:35 PM
Have never hunted blacktails, so I don't know about them. Up until a few years ago, I would have said whitetails. But I have seensome mature mule deer do some things that boggled my mind. Couple that with the fact that last year we got an early snow, right at the end of the rut and I saw muley bucks in my area that I never knew existed...
I think mature muleys have got to be considered for top place. They are "open country" animals where I hunt them. Not many places to hide, but I am constantly amazed each November at what I see that made it through the season. And they don't live in deep, dark, thick woods like whitetails and blacktails.
I can see your point. This fall when I was hunting Mule Deer in Eastern Wyoming I found them hiding in the tiniest places. One was hid in a dry creek bed that was no more than 3 feet across and 3 feet deep. I would have never seen him but I was going up the creek bed to stay hidden as well.
Exactly, they have to hide in plain sight. What makes a deer "smart"? He has to go nocturnal for one, and he has to know when to do it (as soon as he starts seeing the opening weekend pressure starting to build), and still get his breeding/feeding done. He has to have the brains to stay put and have confidence in his hiding spot when people are lurking just a few feet away. And he has to be able to disappear when he does get spotted.
I would say that truly mature whitetails and muleys are masters at all three. But the muleys do it in territory where WE cant hide OURSELVES...
Post by: hunt4 on December 07, 2009, 10:18:11 PM
Quote
They are different kinds of deer and you hunt them differently..or at least I do. Rifle or bow doesn't matter either. I hunt with a rifle now but the last 4 bucks I've killed were all within 40 yards.Shot with a bow?
There is a big difference shooting with a bow vs rifle at 40 yards or in.
drawing a bow vs getting the safety off and squeezing off a trigger or holding a bow at full draw vs having a rifle rested on a tree or even off hand. There is way less movement or way less things that will go wrong my :twocents:
So to get back to the thread I am going with whitetails . BUT all mature bucks are smart...or they live in somebody's yard or refuge and they can afford to be stupid.
I have seen whitetail bucks crawl on there belly's to get away , i have seen bucks run away with there heads down in tall brush to hide there gear, I have seen them tilt there heads sideways when they were beaded to try to hide. I have had several follow me after i was tracking them or they end up on my back trail to get a whiff i guess, and who knows how many i have walked by with in feet to have them blow out after i have gone by.
with this being said anyone that can kill a big mature blacktail you be my hero I have tried with no success and IT IS from the lack of trying..just can not get into it and yes it has everything to do with what they live in.
Post by: EastWaViking on December 07, 2009, 10:29:07 PM
Post by: actionshooter on December 07, 2009, 10:36:12 PM
I see several guys with the opinion that there aren't that many mature blackys, wrong, there are a ton of them. I believe that IF they make it past the stupid spike stage, they turn nocturnal for most of the year.
I think what makes the big blacktails so tough is you have to hunt them on their terms, get in the jungle and find them.
You won't kill a trophy blacky in a farmers field. :twocents:
Post by: Alan K on December 07, 2009, 10:52:05 PM
Mulies always stop to look back, and if you are comfortable taking a long shot they aren't difficult.
I'd say that blacktails would be the smartest deer, simply because of the terrain they live in and the way they use it. Don't knock them for being nocturnal, that is them being smart. . .
Post by: hunt4 on December 07, 2009, 10:53:47 PM
I see several guys with the opinion that there aren't that many mature blackys, wrong, there are a ton of them.
I agree, pretty sure allot die of old age with out seeing daylight or man.
Post by: actionshooter on December 08, 2009, 08:26:23 AM
Don't knock them for being nocturnal, that is them being smart. . .Oh, I'm not knocking blacktails being nocturnal, thats part of what makes them so tough.
Post by: Romulus on December 08, 2009, 10:28:57 AM
Post by: actionshooter on December 08, 2009, 10:38:13 AM
I think there are two different issues. If you ask what species is a true trophy the hardest to kill I would say blacktail hands down but not necessarily because of intelligence. Big blacktail bucks are impossible to kill most days of hunting season including the rut but might make a mistake on nasty stormy days when the rut is on. Most of the legal shooting hours they are bedded in country that is just not stalkable. Whitetails are spookier but because they are more agressive and habitual many get killed from rattling or tree stands on trails so they are easier to kill with rattling tactics or local knowledge. Blacktails are random and impossible to pattern and most of the time in doghair that is not glassable either. Mulies are the easiest due to increased technology for spotting and shooting distance. Individual bucks of each species can get very savvy however and nearly impossible to kill.
Very good post
Post by: fly4fish on December 08, 2009, 05:23:37 PM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on December 08, 2009, 09:16:48 PM
I still think the WT isn't the brightest crayon in the box.. :dunno: JMO....
Post by: mad-bomber on December 08, 2009, 09:36:24 PM
That's the thing about White tails I love. If you jump one don't figure it ran ahead of you and hid. If I spook a WT buck the first thing I do is back track 50 yards or so then sneak off to my right or left depending on the wind. WT bucks will try to circle around and get behind you. A few years back I spent most of one day playing cat and mouse with a buck, we probably never left a 10 acre area, he just kept circling and I kept guessing where he was going to go. I jumped him at least 6 or 7 times, never really seeing him, just flashes of an ear, tail or tine, finally he won and I never saw him again. It was that hunt that convinced me that they are the smartest deer and possibly smartest game animal period.
I hunt whitetails where people think there is just mule deer. and if you jump a whitetail out here you can sit down and spend the next 10 mins watching the buck run 4 miles away! if we pressure these HOT spots to much they will just not come back. i walk past mule deer all day! i will say the are good at hiding! they will hold as long as possible when you are down wind. i have seen whitetails crawl through weeds! and when you get busted they do not stop and turn around for you. there are small coulee's filled with thick brush and we have had to throw 20-30 rocks into them before 19 mulies come "stotting" out and then they all stop and look for what was making that noise. they are all formidable opponents !
Post by: MichaelJ on December 08, 2009, 09:53:42 PM
Seen beds that were literally dug out 2-3' deep into a cutback so they can hide... I think the biggest factor with guys not killing big muleys is they underestimate their smarts... Some will hide all through the general season not more than 200 yards from a road with hunters driving by constantly... Others will use smaller bucks as lookouts. How many times have you guys put a stalk on a bachelor group of bucks and seen all but the biggest most mature buck make a mistake???
I haven't hunted whitetails very much, and blacktails none at all, I'm definitely a little biased of muleys I'll admit, but I agree with others they are gettin the shaft a little on here...
Michael
Post by: h2ofowlr on December 08, 2009, 10:40:14 PM
Post by: bow4elk on December 08, 2009, 10:42:39 PM
IMO a mature BT is the hardest to tag.... 7/8 of the country has a mature whitetail on their wall....
I'm no expert but I've hunted whitetails in five states with ZERO scouting and filled every tag. I grew up in western Washington, and lived a good stint in western Oregon after college. Killing blacktail bucks on public land consistently is notable. Killing mature bucks is a whole different deal altogether. I'm still trying to unlock the secret formula but these deer have a way of keeping you very humble.
Post by: h2ofowlr on December 08, 2009, 10:45:15 PM
Post by: MichaelJ on December 08, 2009, 10:56:35 PM
I'll admit shooting a mature blacktail is probably the hardest (not sure about the smartest though), but put them in the wilderness and I'd be real curious to see how they do...
Michael
Post by: bone head on December 08, 2009, 10:59:36 PM
Post by: mossback91 on December 08, 2009, 11:08:04 PM
Post by: MichaelJ on December 08, 2009, 11:22:03 PM
Michael
Post by: mossback91 on December 08, 2009, 11:28:23 PM
Reindeer....
Michael
Pshh I could spot one of them flashing red noses anywhere!! not tough to find! break out the candy canes and they come out of the woodwork!
Post by: NWBREW on December 09, 2009, 10:14:32 AM
I'll admit shooting a mature blacktail is probably the hardest (not sure about the smartest though), but put them in the wilderness and I'd be real curious to see how they do...
Michael
Holy Cow....I didn't know they weren't in the wilderness areas. :chuckle: I wonder what kind of deer we killed in the Henry Jackson wilderness was. :dunno: or the OP. :dunno: :chuckle: just razzin ya. I love to hunt all kinds of deer, but big mature whitetails are a passion of mine.
Post by: haus on December 09, 2009, 01:03:59 PM
muley's will wear you down physicially....
blacktails will make you want to jump off of a ****'in bridge :ACRY:
Post by: Axle on December 09, 2009, 01:49:04 PM
Quote
blacktails will make you want to jump off of a ****'in bridge
BT deer.........tis a fine art to hunt them indeed matee :chuckle:
It helps to live among them. When you have become the master, the reward will be on your grille fine fellow. :EAT:
Post by: littlebuf on December 09, 2009, 05:09:18 PM
Michael
congratulations, this is one if the dumbest things Ive ever read. where do you think black tails live, walmart?
Post by: MichaelJ on December 09, 2009, 05:42:27 PM
I'll admit shooting a mature blacktail is probably the hardest (not sure about the smartest though), but put them in the wilderness and I'd be real curious to see how they do...
Michael
congratulations, this is one if the dumbest things Ive ever read. where do you think black tails live, walmart?
I meant throw them in the GPW or the ALW (Where I have experience, like I said I've never hunted them before)... I know you guys have them up high on the westside in areas but how many of you guys actually go after them? The whole argument for blacktails being hard to hunt is they are in the thick stuff and go nocturnal. Seems nobody here has argued about how hard they are to hunt in wilderness areas...
Michael
Post by: actionshooter on December 09, 2009, 06:42:42 PM
I'll admit shooting a mature blacktail is probably the hardest (not sure about the smartest though), but put them in the wilderness and I'd be real curious to see how they do...
Michael
I've hunted them in the wilderness areas of Olympics and they seem like the same blacktails to me? You just have to walk farther.
congratulations, this is one if the dumbest things Ive ever read. where do you think black tails live, walmart?
I meant throw them in the GPW or the ALW (Where I have experience, like I said I've never hunted them before)... I know you guys have them up high on the westside in areas but how many of you guys actually go after them? The whole argument for blacktails being hard to hunt is they are in the thick stuff and go nocturnal. Seems nobody here has argued about how hard they are to hunt in wilderness areas...
Michael
Post by: Pazn25 on December 09, 2009, 09:27:54 PM
Post by: littlebuf on December 09, 2009, 09:41:51 PM
Blacktail deer hands!!!
they have hooves actually but i agree one with hands would be really tough to hunt
Post by: Axle on December 09, 2009, 10:45:17 PM
Quote
Quote from: Pazn25 on Today at 09:27:54 PM
Blacktail deer hands!!!
they have hooves actually but i agree one with hands would be really tough to hunt
And that is because when you hunt them, you often have to get down on your hands and knees to try to get through the garbage they live in. Oh ya, and while you are down on your hands and knees, it doesn't hurt to pray for one. A gift from the Almighty in the form of a BT deer is a good gift. :chuckle:
Post by: Thefisherman83 on December 10, 2009, 12:17:13 AM
Whitetails are fun to hunt.....
muley's will wear you down physicially....
blacktails will make you want to jump off of a ****'in bridge :ACRY:
:yeah: :lol4:
Post by: M_ray on December 10, 2009, 10:50:32 AM
I'll admit shooting a mature blacktail is probably the hardest (not sure about the smartest though), but put them in the wilderness and I'd be real curious to see how they do...
Michael
congratulations, this is one if the dumbest things Ive ever read. where do you think black tails live, walmart?
I meant throw them in the GPW or the ALW (Where I have experience, like I said I've never hunted them before)... I know you guys have them up high on the westside in areas but how many of you guys actually go after them? The whole argument for blacktails being hard to hunt is they are in the thick stuff and go nocturnal. Seems nobody here has argued about how hard they are to hunt in wilderness areas...
Michael
Michael,
You are right the Blacktails of the Puget sounds region are nocturnal and hard to hunt cause of the brush but I have hunted BT's up high for many years and they don't stop and take that second look as much as their cousins the mule deer! I've also hunted the benchlegs in country that is more wide open and they act as skittish as any Whitetail and don't stop to give you a shot either :dunno:
I've been thinking about this one for awhile since most on here don't have the experience hunting all three.
To me Whitails are B@$+@rds to hunt because they are so wary and don't stand still for a second, but I think mostly because it's not the traditional way I started out hunting and I don't have a bait site. The three WT bucks I've been able to kill have either been stalked or called in. But having said that ... the right property and a good bait site, Tree stands and ground blind are STILL are no guarantee that you will connect. The WT is the only one I have witnessed that still has the ability to smell you 30 ft up in a tree!!!
Mule deer remind me more of Elk hunting, Covering lots of ground in steep country and long hours sitting and glassing both of which aren't particularly hard for me but for some the hiking to good Mule deer country is the only thing holding them back. Then they are a bitch to drag out once down because of their size and occasionally have to be boned like an Elk too! But with the right homework scouting also being easier in most cases a mature muley is attainable for anyone willing to do the work.
Now the Blacktail ... yes the Puget sound BT is a B!+c to hunt in the brush and mostly nocturnal until Nov. with lots of private land that makes them hard to get at and they act like a WT gone Wild on the westside :chuckle: Up high they just and up acting like a Muley WT cross!!! Another thing that makes them difficult is they are not patternable!!! They will not come into bait and even difficult to get on trail cam. Personally I only have killed two BT bucks one mature one and one young one but I have arrowed 9 does along the way for meat.
M_ray's take ...
A slight and I mean very slight edge goes to the Blacktail, Mostly because they don't use baits and aren't fooled by cover scents easily. They embody both of what makes a mule deer and a Whitetail so difficult, yes there are less of them but between California to Alaska there is still a large range with tons of animals and we still don't see that many pics of great mature bucks. Take the same square miles of WT & Muley habitat compared to the blacktail habitat and you will see larger harvests WT and Muley's, especially the big bucks which is what the debate is anyway right? The big ones are the smart ones :)
Post by: Axle on December 10, 2009, 12:26:43 PM
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They embody both of what makes a mule deer and a Whitetail so difficult, yes there are less of them but between California to Alaska there is still a large range with tons of animals and we still don't see that many pics of great mature bucks.
And this is sad because mother nature has a way of washing the nutrients out of the plants they eat. Big bucks are there but big racks are few and far between on the BT deer. I've taken many that had rather large bodies but small racks. Many of them will never see 4 points per side due to genetics and food. Having lived among them and getting to know deer individually, I can say that some will never even see 3 points per side even though they get mature.
And now for a new twist - I have taken many BT, WT, MD, and.....it seems nobody has mentioned the little Columbia WT deer. I have taken many of them too but they only exist in a couple places. SW WA and outside of Roseburg, OR where they have been vehemently hated by hunters and ranchers for decades. I know guys who would shoot them on site to get rid of them but they keep on out-breeding the BT deer down there anyway. Some of the ranchers gave up and found out that guys from back east will pay thousands to get one to fill a certain void in his life.
I repeat - they are small and so are the antlers, but in SW OR, they are surviving against the coyote which is one thing they can't do here in WA.
Post by: NWBREW on December 10, 2009, 01:19:29 PM
Post by: Ray on December 10, 2009, 01:22:20 PM
Post by: M_ray on December 10, 2009, 02:00:11 PM
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it seems nobody has mentioned the little Columbia WT deer.
Axel for obvious reasons people arent mentioning them because they are a limited entry hunt in OR and I'm not even sure there is an opprtunity in WA so a majority do not have any experience hunting them including myself. A Columbia Whitetail is on my list of must have's for sure... in fact the last couple of years I have put in for them in Or with no luck but hey if you want one you got to get your name in the hat so I will keep trying! ;)
Post by: tmike on December 10, 2009, 02:18:29 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on December 10, 2009, 03:22:02 PM
Post by: 1bowhunter1 on December 10, 2009, 03:31:29 PM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on December 10, 2009, 03:40:03 PM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 10, 2009, 04:23:25 PM
in my humble expierience the smartest deer hands down are Harvard deer, Yale deer in a close second
Nope. Westpoint Deer. Or Naval Academy Deer if they are tracked for the Marines.
They learn tactics... :chuckle:
Post by: Axle on December 10, 2009, 04:46:51 PM
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Now if the Blktail is in full rut that is a hole new ball game....
The "ball game" being nadds and the "hole" being............sorry, just can't say it. :chuckle:
Post by: EastWaViking on December 12, 2009, 08:08:50 AM
I think he's probably right, I remember little black tail bucks standing there at 30 yards or less letting me miss them several shots in a row with my single shot 20 gauge slug gun when I was little.
(there, that should restart this thread) :P
Post by: littlebuf on December 12, 2009, 11:23:01 AM
Post by: alanger on December 12, 2009, 11:32:50 AM
Post by: Track-er on December 12, 2009, 12:10:18 PM
nope sorry viking only piss poor hunters shootin the little guys. all ive ever shot is branch antler blackies
Here we go again. I don't consider myself a piss-poor hunter and I have shot spikes and two-points and not felt bad about it.
Mike
Post by: littlebuf on December 12, 2009, 02:45:05 PM
Post by: littlebuf on December 12, 2009, 02:46:03 PM
Post by: shag on December 12, 2009, 03:04:54 PM
Post by: rasbo on December 12, 2009, 04:13:27 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on December 12, 2009, 04:45:48 PM