Post by: TEX-X on December 07, 2009, 12:36:22 PM
this was wrote by a lady in georgia
Force Breaking - The Ear-Pinch Method
Force-breaking a dog to retrieve was taught to me in my obedience training days during which I finished numerous Utility and one Obedience Trail Champion.
With a
few adjustments, this method of force-breaking has now carried over into my work with bird dogs, including some multiple NSTRA Champions that I’ve personally trained. Lots of bird dog people used a table to train on and the toe pinch method
* which you’ve seen described in this magazine. I don’t have much use for either of these. To my way of thinking, if you start a dog on the ground he never has to be retrained on the ground when he comes off the table. And I’ve had excellent results with the ear-pinch method with all breeds.
Don’t even start force-breaking unless you’re sure you can devote the necessary time to it. You should plan on 10-20 minute training sessions every day form the time you begin. Some dogs take to this type of training quickly, requiring as little as a couple of weeks. With others, it could take as long as six to eight weeks. Every dog is different, but in any case it will take a lot of patience and perseverance to get the job done. There cannot be enough emphasis put on praising the dog each and every time he performs correctly. Get excited and happy with him when he does it right. He lives to please you, and one “good boy” can go a long, long way.
The first thing I teach the dog is the “hold it” command. To begin this, I use a wooden dumbbell rather that a bird, because you want the dog to associate all unpleasantness with the dumbbell, not a bird.
Place the dumbbell in the dog’s mouth just behind his canine teeth and tap up under his chin. Every time he tries to spit it out, command him to “hold it.”
Do these
for shorter periods of time until you give your release command, which can be either “leave it,” or “give.” I use “give.”
Make the dog hold the dumbbell until you give the release command, then take the dumbbell and praise the dog. When he is successfully holding the dumbbell without spitting it out, encourage the dog to take a step toward you, command “come” and “hold it.” Keep your hand under his chin to encourage him not to drop the dumbbell.
Praise * when the dog is doing the job right - is important. In three to five days you should have the dog holding and walking short distanced toward you until you command “give.” Holding the dumbbell is a very important lesson and should be reinforced throughout the force-breaking process.
When the dog is holding the dumbbell and walking short distances toward you, you can begin the ear-pinch. With your right hand, hold the dowel of the dumbbell directly in front of the dog’s teeth (even touching them). With your left hand, have a snug hold on the dog’s leash and reach inside the ear and apply pressure with your thumbnail until the dog is feeling discomfort. Command “fetch” every time you place the dumbbell in front of the dog’s teeth. Rub the dumbbell on the teeth and increase ear pressure until the dog opens his mouth. When he does, immediately put the dumbbell in his mouth and release the pain, praising the dog. Then command “give” and start over. Repeat this until the dog is reaching for the dumbbell.
Always release the ear pinch (discontinue pain) when the dog has the dumbbell in his mouth, and then praise him. The dog will soon realize he feels no pain as long as he holds the dumbbell in his mouth. Every time he reaches for and holds the dumbbell, repeat the “hold it” command so he doesn’t forget this lesson.
Then say
“give,” and start over.
Repeat all of these lessons until the dog is sure of what is expected of him; then make it more difficult. Hold the dumbbell out farther, making the dog reach for it.
As you are extending the reach, also move the dumbbell closer and closer to the ground. This is often a difficult turning point for beginning trainers or those who are using the method for the first time. The first few times you place the dumbbell on the ground, leave your hand on it for a short time *as a cue *so the dog relates to taking it from you. If he refuses at any time, use the ear-pinch.
Some dogs
have a stronger pain threshold then others and require more pressure to achieve the desired results. Never allow a refusal- the dog must reach for and hold the dumbbell.
When your dog is successfully taking the dumbbell from the ground, start laying it farther and farther away, until you can actually toss it short distances.
At this
point, I can change from a leash to a flexi-lead that retracts out and back. The flexi-lead gives me better control in keeping the dog going straight out and straight back. Patience throughout the process is important. Make sure the dog learns each phase before moving to the next. For example, don’t start to toss the dumbbell until the dog is successfully picking it up off the ground * every time.
Then, increase the distance gradually. When the dog is making his retrieves every time without refusal, move to new places. You may get some refusals when you first start in a new place, and if you do, go back to the ear-pinch immediately.
Your dog
has to know the he has no choice but to perform every time and in every place he is asked. Then, continue to make the retrieves more and more difficult. You might do this by having strangers stand nearby or in the way of the retrieve, or by throwing the dumbbell in heavy brush or briars. Continue the process until you have no refusals. Always command “fetch” on the throw, “hold it” on the way back, and
“give” to release. Sometimes I graduate from the flexi-lead to a long
checkcord,
which I continue to use on the dog all the way though shooting birds with him. This keeps you in control until a pattern is solidly formed. When your dog is doing a good job with the dumbbell and you are satisfied that he know what’s expected of him, it’s time to move to birds. I go back to the same place we started on the dumbbell and us a frozen bird. Start as you did in the beginning by placing the bird in the dog’s mouth and commanding “hold it.” Go though the entire process exactly as you did with the dumbbell. In most cases this is an easy transition.
When the dog figures out that you want him to retrieve the bird, He’ll love it! As with the dumbbell, make the dog hold the bird and walk with it, then increase the distance he has to reach for it, and then move the bird to the ground, gradually increasing the length on the retrieve. Use the ear-pinch immediately if you get a refusal. When the dog is retrieving the dumbbell and the frozen bird confidently every place your take him, it’s time to short a bird for him. Never shoot a bird for your dog until he’s is completely reliable on the dumbbell and the frozen bird.
Plant a pigeon or quail, let the dog point it, and have a friend hold him steady as you flush and shoot the bird. As soon as the dog sees the bird fall, command “fetch.” If there is any hesitation, take your dog by the collar, lead him up to the bird, pinch his ear, and make him pick up the bird. Then run backwards commanding him to “come.” Make him “hold it,” and command “give”. Then throw the bird a couple of times, repeating the process. Force-breaking using the ear-pinch method will make your dog a reliable and confident retriever. It will eliminate refusals, mouthing, chewing birds, and dropping birds early. I highly recommend it.
Post by: gasman on December 07, 2009, 05:06:21 PM
I would use differant items i had close by.
I used a wire brush as a hold item to intenseify the level of uncomfrtablity. he took to every thing i gave him by the time he was trained.
I used to give him the newspaper and mail to take to my dad who lives down stairs in our house :chuckle: :chuckle:
th efirst time i sent him down with the mail he jumped in my dads lap, my dad yelled at him and sent him away, but as he ran back up to me he noticed the mail in his muth and called him back with it. I just stood there and laughed.
This proccess works well and I am going to use it with my other two labs soon.
Post by: satchel3006 on December 08, 2009, 05:12:54 AM
Post by: TEX-X on December 08, 2009, 07:33:37 AM
Post by: satchel3006 on December 08, 2009, 04:01:49 PM
Post by: TEX-X on December 08, 2009, 05:28:17 PM
Post by: gasman on December 08, 2009, 07:54:45 PM
I will do force fetch with any dog of mine. it reasures who the commander is..........ME.
Post by: Ossahatchee on December 09, 2009, 05:26:30 AM
How many duck hunt and bird hunts have been ruined by the guy screaming, begging and pleading with his dog to go look for downed game and then to please bring it back intact. FF is the cure.
There are two types of dog owners those that force fetch and those that wish they had.
Post by: TEX-X on December 09, 2009, 07:13:57 AM
There are two types of dog owners those that force fetch and those that wish they had.
:chuckle: ain't that about the truth!!!
Post by: Chessie_Guy on January 13, 2010, 01:03:40 PM
"Natural retrievers" as some dogs are labeled are free to quit whenever they feel like it. A force fetched trained dog has been given a thorough job description through training and are "RELIABLE". Dogs not force fetched are typically entirely driven by visual stimulation (throwing a ball or bumper to trigger their action) That's fine I guess if your dog sees every bird fall. But what if it doesn't? As previously mentioned FF sets the tone for the handling of the game in a situation where you are in control. FF dogs have more confidence in teir duty as they have a full understanding of their responsibility.
How many duck hunt and bird hunts have been ruined by the guy screaming, begging and pleading with his dog to go look for downed game and then to please bring it back intact. FF is the cure.
There are two types of dog owners those that force fetch and those that wish they had.
I totally agree. Further, it is a foundation for the dog to learn to handle, and work through, pressure. This is huge when it comes to collar conditioning, remote handling, etc.
Post by: RockChuck on January 13, 2010, 03:45:01 PM
Post by: TEX-X on January 13, 2010, 05:41:36 PM
Post by: CastleRocker on January 13, 2010, 06:00:44 PM
There are two types of dog owners those that force fetch and those that wish they had.
Actually, there is one more type of dog owner; the super fortunate one. It has been said that in a hunter's lifetime, he will have one truly special dog...I've had mine. He was my second dog. A chocolate lab that did things that were unbelievable to everyone who saw him work. All my other dogs have been force-fetched. I can't stand a dog that doesn't "want" do what I want, when I want.
Post by: Chessie_Guy on January 13, 2010, 08:27:53 PM
depends on the maturity and how far along in training the dog is... I don't believe it should be before 1 year of age....
I want to say that I FF'd my dog before he was a year; I think the milestone was him getting all his adult teeth. I did his FF under the tutelage of my pro trainer. I collar conditioned him first, and we collar-forced him; I wasn't jazzed about the ear pinch or toe thing. I do know that when we forced him, that was all we did; no retriever training at all until he was done.
Every dog is different, though.
Post by: TEX-X on January 13, 2010, 08:31:21 PM
Post by: Shootmoore on January 13, 2010, 08:55:14 PM
Maybe I was just lucky and will keep this in the back of my mind if I ever get another dog.
Shootmoore
Post by: Chessie_Guy on January 13, 2010, 09:03:13 PM
How do you train the retrieving instinct in a pointer?
Post by: TEX-X on January 13, 2010, 09:17:12 PM
Post by: TEX-X on January 13, 2010, 09:17:56 PM
Post by: Chessie_Guy on January 13, 2010, 09:19:16 PM
No worries; lots of people do that. Just don't call them Golden Retrievers around my wife. :o Hahaha...she hates that.
Post by: TEX-X on January 13, 2010, 09:23:33 PM
Post by: Chessie_Guy on January 14, 2010, 07:16:16 PM
are chessies really as bullheaded as i hear?
Let's see, I can't exactly remember how it goes...you tell a lab, you ask a golden, and you negotiate with a Chessie. Chessies are their own thing, to be sure. Hardheaded? Well, yeah, about as much as the people who own them; my observation anyway. I will say that they learn in a different way; I don't know how else to say it. If you put too much pressure, too early, on a Chessie, they can and will shut down (whereas a Lab will not). So, you can't fall back on electricity or threats or whathaveyou. It makes you a better dog trainer, I can tell you that.
When I was force fetching Reagan, I really began learning how to read him. How to tell when he was near the point of shutting down; when he was trying to communicate that he didn't understand what I wanted; how much was just enough, etc.
Jump forward to working blinds and handling...yes, he tried to exert his will in deciding which pile to go to or which bumper to pick up when. But, we just backed it down a notch until he was doing it my way; then it became his way.
The result has been that he is VERY solid on those things which were difficult to teach him. He is still a challenge to me, he still makes "puppy-ish" mistakes sometimes, but he is a strong retriever and a great dog, he really has been a joy to train. He still (at 3.5) pushes the boundaries to see if he can exert dominance. A Chessie owner has GOT to know and project that he/she is the alpha in that pack.
I don't think I would own another retrieving breed.
Post by: DDFever on January 19, 2010, 05:19:23 AM
Post by: TEX-X on January 19, 2010, 05:13:44 PM
Post by: DDFever on January 20, 2010, 04:17:52 AM
Post by: TEX-X on January 23, 2010, 10:18:33 PM
Post by: 87Ford on February 01, 2010, 03:51:11 PM
Six months may be too early for some dogs, but seemed right for mine. I waited until all or most of his permanent teeth were in.
Here is an interesting viewpoint on whether a dog is ready for force-fetch training.
http://www.northernflight.com/forcefetch.htm (http://www.northernflight.com/forcefetch.htm)