Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: Gutpile on December 11, 2009, 09:02:32 AM

Title: A.I. question
Post by: Gutpile on December 11, 2009, 09:02:32 AM: Do you just fire non Ackley rounds in the A.I. chamber to form the brass? I assume this is what fireforming is but sitting here bored with ideas swimming around in my head so thought I'd ask.

What does it run (ballpark) to ream a chamber to A.I. ?
Title: Re: A.I. question
Post by: woodswalker on December 11, 2009, 09:06:08 AM: Quote from: Gutpile on December 11, 2009, 09:02:32 AM
Do you just fire non Ackley rounds in the A.I. chamber to form the brass? I assume this is what fireforming is but sitting here bored with iseas swimming around in my head so thought I'd ask.

What does it run (ballpark) to ream a chamber to A.I. ?

Ackley DESIGNED the chambers to fire factory rounds to fire-form them and as an emergency if your ammo got mislaid. So Yes that is what you do...just fire the factory round in the AI chamber.

Other fireforming can be more involved...like making .30 herrett or .357 herrett from 30-30 cases...several steps there including fireforming.
Title: Re: A.I. question
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on December 11, 2009, 09:15:45 AM: Many gunsmiths have a flat rate for barrel removal, reaming to a popular chamber dimmension, barrel reinstall and set headspace. You should to be able to get this done for less than a couple hundred bux. If you're looking for a more accurate gun then you'll want the bolt face trued also. If they have to buy a reamer for your choice, they'll pass that cost on to you so find a reputable smith that has the tools/reamer for what you want done. Fireforming is explained well in woodswalker's post. You can also buy PO Ackley commercial brass. Redding and RCBS will make you a full length die per your chamber dimmensions (cerosafe cast of the chamber, or the spec's listed by the reamer manufacture (not as good)) Otherwise, once fire formed, only neck size with a neck size die. There's a ton of information about PO Ackley's stuff. Internet and in print.

-Steve
Title: Re: A.I. question
Post by: dontgetcrabs on December 11, 2009, 09:23:45 AM: You can rent reamers also. I used to have a website that did that but now I can't find it. Most gunsmiths would probably know about it I would think.
Title: Re: A.I. question
Post by: bobcat on December 11, 2009, 09:31:44 AM: Yes, my uncle just recently rented a 280 Ackley Improved reamer from a company in, I believe, southern Oregon.
Title: Re: A.I. question
Post by: runamuk on December 11, 2009, 11:11:07 AM: So Gut whatcha thinking of AI'ing ;) and thanks for asking that I had wondered about the fire forming as well.
Title: Re: A.I. question
Post by: Gutpile on December 11, 2009, 11:13:10 AM: Quote from: runamuk on December 11, 2009, 11:11:07 AM
So Gut whatcha thinking of AI'ing ;) and thanks for asking that I had wondered about the fire forming as well.

The 6mm or 243 thats in my future.
Title: Re: A.I. question
Post by: jjhunter on December 11, 2009, 11:45:33 AM: Gut, you should be able to get a rechamber done for $120 bucks. It costs about $200 for chamber cut, threads cut and crown.......There are a few problems with the A.I. - 1) fireforming brass - Not tough to do, but, this extra step is causing you time, $$$ and barrel life. 2) The 6mm and 243 are already hot little cartridges and relatively hard on barrels. Although the 6 ackley has a rep for lasting a bit longer with the sharp shoulder and longer neck, the fireforming process is still rounds down the tube. Rounds down the tube = throat erosion. The 243 and 6mm are hot enough to do whatever you want. Unless you are shooting something with a 30" pipe, I don't think that extra case capacity is worth the trouble. At some point, fast is fast! If speed is the ultimate goal, at all costs, the 6 ackley will get you there. Especially with bullets in the 75-87 grain range.....But, if speed is the name of the game, why not take advantage of the greater case capacity of the 6-284?

My vote is for the 243 - best brass selection, inherently accurate, wide array of bullets that will fly true thru a factory 10" twist, fast, flat, mild recoil.....and best of all, a TRUE load and shoot cartridge. :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: :twocents: My 8 cents :chuckle:
Title: Re: A.I. question
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on December 11, 2009, 12:44:22 PM: I agree with JJhunter for the most part. Except:
Quote
Rounds down the tube = throat erosion.

If you've already got a large batch of brass in 6mm or 243, you can light load them to fireform the shoulder to the AI spec/your chamber. That takes a whole lot of wear away from the throat and barrel compared to shooting full loads. You can even do this with lead castings instead of premium bullets.

I have a wildcat that I have to fireform brass for. I light load and shoot cheap bullets to get the job done. The neat thing about the AI's is that you 'can' shoot factory ammo through them.

Barrels are cheap! If you want a barrel burner, build the rifle you want.

-Steve
Title: Re: A.I. question
Post by: gramps on December 11, 2009, 01:07:22 PM: The above methods work, but I did not want to use full loads so I fire-formed a 22-250 AI and a 6.5x308 AI by using 13 and 13.5 grains of Unique powder (respectively) and then fill the case with DRY corn meal and several drops of candle wax. I packed the corn meal as firmly as I could with a piece of wooden dowel. I did not use a wad of any kind...have done several hundred cases and the only thing you need to watch is to be sure the chamber does not have any wax residue in it or the next case will have an indent in it....I blew the chanber out with an air hose after each round.

Good Luck...
Title: Re: A.I. question
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on December 11, 2009, 03:28:59 PM: Yes, using pistol or shotgun powder with wads or corn media is also a good way to fireform cases. A lot cheaper too! A bunch more work though.

-Steve
Title: Re: A.I. question
Post by: MtnMuley on December 11, 2009, 03:58:24 PM: Quote from: Gutpile on December 11, 2009, 09:02:32 AM
Do you just fire non Ackley rounds in the A.I. chamber to form the brass? I assume this is what fireforming is but sitting here bored with ideas swimming around in my head so thought I'd ask.

What does it run (ballpark) to ream a chamber to A.I. ?
Yes, gutpile. That's how I would fire form your brass. Also another vote for the 243. :twocents:
Title: Re: A.I. question
Post by: elkaholic123 on December 11, 2009, 06:59:38 PM: Also if fireforming with corn meal and wax you could do it in your back yard or even in the garage(when the wife is shopping)just get a rubbermaid plastic garbage can and fill with cardboard and cut small hole in the lid and tape lid on!Works great!Jerry
Title: Re: A.I. question
Post by: Huntbear on December 11, 2009, 07:02:58 PM: Gutpile, once you go AI you will not go back. :chuckle:

I have a .257 A.I. built on a long action. I am getting 25/06 ballistics out of that short little case. I love it. Very Very accurate, and no recoil at all.

I used the cheapest federal ammo I could find to fire form my brass, since I like federal brass. I also did the load up with light loads, and filler (cotton, etc.) and fire formed that way.
Title: Re: A.I. question
Post by: runningboard on December 11, 2009, 07:08:48 PM: does fireforming with corn meal make your cornbread waxy? just kidding! I like my Ackley Improved 35 Whelen, I used cheap gunshow 357 wadcutters to fireform mine. agree with JOAT, you don't need to worry about throat erosion if you use load 'em light for that step. always get folks telling me I shoot too much & am gonna need a new barrel but I don't shoot anything Magnum and I don't start at max & go up so I don't worry too much about it.
Title: Re: A.I. question
Post by: KillBilly on December 11, 2009, 07:13:43 PM: Quote from: Gutpile on December 11, 2009, 09:02:32 AM
Do you just fire non Ackley rounds in the A.I. chamber to form the brass? I assume this is what fireforming is but sitting here bored with ideas swimming around in my head so thought I'd ask.

What does it run (ballpark) to ream a chamber to A.I. ?

Midwayusa sells a solid pilot finish reamer for $95.00 & change
Title: Re: A.I. question
Post by: fremont on December 13, 2009, 06:18:55 AM: Most riflesmiths have a collection of reamers for the popular Ackley chamberings. I wouldn't buy or rent one myself. I've mailed the barrelled action to a riflesmith cheaper.