Post by: Hornseeker on January 15, 2008, 12:56:50 PM
We were walking down a wooded trail into a beautiful basin in SW Montana, September 9, 2007. There was a dusting of new snow, it was foggy and chilly...
We broke into a massive park, probably 1 mile long and 3/8 mile wide, where we stopped to listen. I told my buddies, "yeah, this is a great spot...one time I was right here and had to raghorn bulls sparring in front of me right over there...another time Bill, Andrew and I had 6 bulls standing in that clearing just up the hill over there....dont move, dont move...there he is...."
A 5 point bull came over a little rise about 100 yards in front of us, looked our direction, then started feeding to the right, unalarmed. When he turned a bit away, we snuck behind the closest tree to him, still about 90 yards away.
We sat and watched for about 5 minutes as he fed across the front of us, in the middle of a massive park. The only thing separating us from him was this spruce tree and 85 yards of grass! So...as he started to move away I gave a little cow call to see how he'd respond. He didn't. He just kept at his business. So one of us ran up the hill about 100 yards away and started giving some cow/herd talk while 2 of use set up on either side of this tree to see if he'd come. Nothing.
He did look our way and "bark, bugle and squeal" at us pretty regularly...but would not take a step our way...nor did he seem alarmed.
I started raking the tree we were standing behind, as I had basically given up on him...I just wanted to see his reaction to a variety of noises. He gave us much attention, bugles, barks, etc... but didn't run away or come to... I bugled, I cow called, I fighting cow called, I barked back at him, I raked, I HUCKED (yeah Paul...Hucked ala BB)...NOTHING. He wouldn't do anything. My buddy even took off his brown fleece and tried to Decoy him in. Nothing. No alarm...very little interest.
Finally, I told Barri...get ready...I'm gonna run straight away behind this tree and make all kinds of racket then bugle, call, rake from way back in the timber. so I did that.... I didn't see the rest...but basically...it did nothing to affect him.
What I didn't see in the end was Barri...he decided to bend over 90 at the waste, with his beige fleece on, and walk straight at the bull. The bull was at about 120 yards by now. He walked directly at the bull, with only grass as cover, till he got to 65 yards... The bull watched him, but never moved, never looked "alarmed"... Then Barri stood up, drew and released...
The rest of the story involves us tracking him out of the snow onto bare ground through deadfall and grizzlys for about 8 hours and never finding more than a 1/2 cup of blood total.... But thats a different story.
Is there anything I could have done to call this bull into 30 yards???
Ernie
Post by: huntnphool on January 15, 2008, 01:37:29 PM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on January 15, 2008, 01:47:06 PM
I was in Yellowstone and was photographing a large bull with a few cows. When I had to pee I just did it right in front of the bull...he chased me down and I had to hide behind a passing car to save me...you know what. Try that!
Shawn
Post by: Little Fish on January 15, 2008, 01:59:00 PM
Post by: groundhog on January 15, 2008, 02:22:24 PM
Sometimes your best best is to try and get ahead of him and ambush him. It sounds like you know the area well. Trying to anticipate where he might bed and cut him off might have worked but who knows. If it was always a slam dunk it wouldn't be near as rewarding when it does all come together. Good Luck!
Post by: Elknut1 on January 15, 2008, 02:40:27 PM
First off, giving a cow call like you did pretty much ruined anything you'd try to do there after, it would be compared to putting a band aid on a femur made knife wound. You may not have felt he showed no alarm but it didn't take him but a second to glance your way & see nothing. He knows he should've seen an elk, this is especially true in heavily hunted areas, he wasn't rutting hard so he wasn't in the "rut stupid" mode yet! (grin) Just the fact that he kept hitting you with a "nervous grunt" showed his un-certainess about your sounds & presence. He was asking you to identify or show yourself, he wanted to see an elk! He did not "bark" at you for sure or he would have been long gone! You ask--"What could you have done to call him to 30yds" good question!
First off, when you originally spotted him, I would have not done anything at all. I would have kept an eye on him & checked out his body language to see his state of mind, I would have made sure I had favorable wind, there was no need to call. It's very possible other elk were around & quite possibly a larger herd that he wasn't far from, I would have been very patient & waited to see what his direction was taking him & if I heard any distant elk talking. If I concluded he WAS alone I would have let him feed out of sight then make my move. I would've made sure my advancement was into the wind yet go in the direction he appeared to be going, if I could ambush him I'd do just that! If I got into position & he didn't show when I thought he should have by the pace he was moving, I'd take action. I'd quickly pick a "setup" where he could not see where my sounds were coming from, he must come close to investigate. The sound I'd use would be raking a tree/brush & light stomping as well as snapping a few branches just loud enough he could hear. This symbolizes 2 things to other elk, one, there's a bull "displaying" himself, possibly because he knows this other bull is around, bulls do this in a non-intimidation manner to compare one anothers racks & disposition. It's an invite, yet not a challenge! Too, bulls will stage for for the ladies, they do this by raking & trying to impress them. In any event this has pulled many a loner bulls our way in the past with no calling at all, just natural elk sounds. When you do this, one must be patient, elk can show in 5 minutes or 30min. Once sounds are made I'd move away to where I felt he would come from as he's going to come in with wind in his favor.
If this bull doesn't show, no harm no foul, you have not educated him at all, he just flat showed no interest! But odds are he will. (grin)
I've also pulled bulls in, in like scenarios by getting in their way but enough out front to use "lost cow sounds" I then move away from him up to 60 yds away from where I first started calling, I snap twigs small branches so he can get a great picture painted in his minds eye what's happening, because I'm leaving. If there's 2 hunters, the shooter stays where the 1st sounds were made, the caller stays back until called to by shooter. If you have a decoy & I always do I'd set it up 30 yds behind the shooter as a visual aid for the bull.
I've used both these methods with good success. Never overcall, it does more harm than good!
Just a couple thoughts to consider next time! ---Remember, NEVER call where elk can look in your direction & see nothing, rarely will the outcome be a positive one!!
ElkNut1
Post by: Hornseeker on January 15, 2008, 11:24:53 PM
Hehehehe.... Ok...yeah, we were'nt real patient and I admit that has been my downfall since the beginning of my bowhunting career! Patience...patience...patience.
We get bulls into bugles, cow calls, grunts, raking, hucking...everything in this area. This guy was sure fun to watch out there..its too bad he got wounded...unless he was doing some major internal bleeding, he'll be fine... at least thats what I keep telling myself.
This bull was on the near edge of this giant park and he was headed obliquely to the far edge. He was going to be in the open, and unapproachable or ambushable for about 1/2 mile...before he entered the far side timber.
We should have let him go over the nearest rise, then snuck up to see if we could get a shot...if not...head up the hill to the other bulls that were bugling that morning!
Thanks all...
E
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 16, 2008, 06:07:42 AM
Post by: Elknut1 on January 16, 2008, 06:49:06 AM
Skyvalhunter, You bet! I use the Original Cow Elk l the most but have been known to use the Cow Elk lll, either work fine & are the most realistic critter you've seen! (grin) It will fool your dog everytime!!!
Check them out on our Site www.elknut.com we have all 3 models! Thanks!
ElkNut1
Post by: Little Fish on January 18, 2008, 09:54:54 AM
Post by: boneaddict on January 18, 2008, 12:02:01 PM
Post by: Hornseeker on January 19, 2008, 09:31:43 AM
Here's what I do think. A guy needs to do what HE feels is right, what he is confident in doing. In time, he may learn that is wasnt' right...for him and change his ways, but he may build experience that shows his ways are fine...
As far as shooting elk/game with ANY weapon, you need to know your abilities and then do what YOU BELIEVE is right.
Whats your thoughts? Is there a "max" range for archery elk??
Ernie
Post by: Opportunist on January 20, 2008, 06:05:34 PM
We've used the montana decoys in Idaho with mixed results. We used to hunt in Southeast Idaho where the bulls are ultra call shy and used decoys with no success, so back in our treestands we went. But up in central Idaho my hunting partners used a decoy and it helped draw in a dandy 300" 6 which gary killed. It all matters what the scenario is.
I like the idea of pissin'. One of my old hunting partners was driving down a logging road during bowseason and saw a fresh elk rub next to the road, so as a joke he got out and pissed all over the rubbed up tree. He drove by the next day to find the bull had came back and destroyed the tree. The same guy used to lay down in elk beds he found and roll around in them, it was pretty *censored* funny to watch. But you know he kills his bull every year.
Great info in this thread! Except for mine!
Oh and about the 65 yard shot, he didn't ask for our opinion on that. I'm sure the shooter is regretting that shot over and over. Let's keep the ethics and moral police on Ifish and Monster muleys!
Post by: Little Fish on January 20, 2008, 10:37:28 PM
Post by: Hornseeker on January 22, 2008, 10:44:45 AM
I am not sure..and neither is he...why the shot went bad. I told him I did not approve of anyone shooting that far without a range finder, but frankly, I/nor he know if the shot went bad vertically or horizontally. He can drill a paper plate at 75 yards pretty much every shot...but as we all know...an elk aint no paper plate!!
Talk about ethics...how do you handle this... I could shoot my compound into a cereal bowl at 50 yards every shot. I still never considered shooting at game past about 40ish..thats just what I was taught at the beginning. Well, at 25 yards I completely missed 2 bull elk one season and grazed another bull at 37 yards another season... SO...I "thought" I was doing everything right, being ethical, I was being true to myself...but, I could have just as easily wounded and lost one of those elk as missed them.
My point is...do what you believe is right. If it goes wrong, dont lament over it, use it as a learning experience and base your next shot taking scenario on that...
Good Luck All!
Ernie
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 22, 2008, 11:16:46 AM
Post by: Little Fish on January 23, 2008, 08:09:52 AM
Post by: boneaddict on January 23, 2008, 08:59:23 AM
Post by: Little Fish on January 24, 2008, 09:34:16 AM
A couple seasons ago during modern firearm season I was glassing a clearcut with a buddy late in the afternoon and we spotted some elk in the lower portion of the cut moving to the right toward a narrow strip of timber and the next clearcut over. We got ahead of them and I could distinctly hear them talking despite the wind and rain so my buddy set up in the clearcut and I waited in the timber then cow called to them as they entered the clearcut. The lead cow turned around and headed straight toward me at a run followed by several other animals (unfortunately no bulls). She easily got within 20 yards of my buddy before she figured out something was wrong, but for a second I thought she was going to run right over him. Later he said they were so close he could feel the ground shaking as they ran toward me. There we no shooting opportunities, but it was still exciting to be so close to the herd. This experience was one reason I got to thinking about trying archery.
Post by: Hornseeker on January 24, 2008, 12:45:47 PM
Post by: Elknut1 on January 24, 2008, 07:24:40 PM
Little Fish, great experience!! Watch out though, you're going to get hooked big-time on rutting bulls!! (grin)
ElkNut1