Post by: Al Bundy on January 22, 2010, 12:40:10 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on January 22, 2010, 12:45:15 PM
Post by: Buckmark on January 22, 2010, 12:48:03 PM
It removes all the fluid and replaces it with clean/fresh were a fliter only service will not do this.
Make sure thay are using a good quality fluid or the OEM fluid for replacment.
Make sure this is also a good shop and not a Quickie lube..
And no, you will not loosen slduge and damage your trans.
And no if your trans is not shifting correctly/slipping or acting unusual a service will not fix it either.
ATF flushes should be a regular service to help extend the life of the component. 30K on average is a good bench mark to stick to.
Post by: Al Bundy on January 22, 2010, 12:52:34 PM
It's a Kia Rio with about 85,000 miles on it. I had a trans filter change done at about 35,000.
Buckmark
This is a shop I've been using for a while now. They know me and do good work so I trust them. It shifts fine and doesn't slip either.
Post by: KimberRich on January 22, 2010, 12:52:49 PM
Have them change the filter and then flush/service the system.
It removes all the fluid and replaces it with clean/fresh were a fliter only service will not do this.
Make sure thay are using a good quality fluid or the OEM fluid for replacment.
Make sure this is also a good shop and not a Quickie lube..
And no, you will not loosen slduge and damage your trans.
And no if your trans is not shifting correctly/slipping or acting unusual a service will not fix it either.
ATF flushes should be a regular service to help extend the life of the component. 30K on average is a good bench mark to stick to.
I agree..
Ant thoughts on Chevy Duramax Allison Transmision flushes??? I may just start a thread getting everyones opinions..
Post by: Woodchuck on January 22, 2010, 12:54:12 PM
on the duramax, book says 50k, i wouldnt let it go that long
Post by: jackelope on January 22, 2010, 01:09:30 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 22, 2010, 01:10:52 PM
Post by: Al Bundy on January 22, 2010, 01:11:31 PM
I can tell you from personal experience that Chrysler does not recommend transmission "flushes" or any "flushes" for that matter and the same goes for Toyota.
That's one of the things I've heard about them. They can actually void warranties with some manufacturers. Just another reason I thought I'd get some opinions about it.
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on January 22, 2010, 01:15:59 PM
Quote
Personally I would not hook a transmission flush machine up to anything I owned. I'm a big fan of old school transmission services.
Agree'd!
As an experienced shade tree mechanic.... I don't care what brand of tranny, Drain and a filter change every 100,000 miles. Let the gunk and sludge that's collected were it is.. Stay there.
On another note.. Small shop? How well do you know this mechanic? Sales tactic? I remember when I ran a gas station with service bays. Oh, we did tires and oil leaks and alignments and oil changes, brake jobs.. tuneups. Anything shy of pulling a tranny, diff or engine. With every oil change we had a list (that I wrote) of things to check and ask the customer if they wanted us to replace. Who really changes their antifreeze/coolant?.. Or thier air filter when they should? We'd talk the customer into another job. It was easy to look at the owners manual to see when the prescribed interval was to convince the auto owner.
-Steve
Post by: jackelope on January 22, 2010, 01:18:09 PM
I'm totally not agreeing with your 100k mile interval. Some of our vehicles are 30k like the trucks, jeeps, etc. A lot of ours are 50k and some are non-serviced.
Post by: Buckmark on January 22, 2010, 01:23:15 PM
I can tell you from personal experience that Chrysler does not recommend transmission "flushes" or any "flushes" for that matter and the same goes for Toyota. Toyota actually put something in writing and sent it to the dealer service departments advising against it. I don't work for Toyota anymore so I don't have any access to it anymore. Personally I would not hook a transmission flush machine up to anything I owned. I'm a big fan of old school transmission services.I will add that by what i mean by a flush, is a fluid exchange only, no chemical cleaners or flush agents should ever be used.
Removing and replacing as close to the total capacity by means of the transmission cooler lines by equipment designed for this purpose.
As far a toyota is concerned they actually never recommend changing the fuild ever, they calim that under normal conditions that it never needs to be done. One of the biggest reasons for that is to lower the "cost of ownership" amount that a buyer should expect to pay during there ownership, hence making that vehicle sound like its inexpensive to operate and maintain.
Kinda like some manufactures not having a timing belt service interval on interference engines.
O'brien sure did like to push his writers on p/s flushes though?
Post by: Buckmark on January 22, 2010, 01:28:22 PM
Almost guaranteed failure...
Post by: jackelope on January 22, 2010, 01:30:25 PM
Quote
O'brien sure did like to push his writers on p/s flushes though?
till Toyota came out with the "no flushes" letter.
:chuckle:
the chrysler minivan tranny's paid my mortgage for a while man, come on!!
Post by: Woodchuck on January 22, 2010, 01:35:10 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on January 22, 2010, 01:35:37 PM
Quote
I'm totally not agreeing with your 100k mile interval.You're right, that's well beyond many manufactures suggested intervals. Most say change fluid every 30-50k.
Just always been my experience that tranny fluid nowadays lasts longer than most people think. And I've had a lot of trannys opened up. (Oh, I've built a few hot rods and restored or been part of many Mustang restorations. I also live rural... Don't sit in traffic all day. But, I've also had some rough service trannys that looked great inside when opened up well after 200k miles that never had a fluid change.
Best thing for an automatic tranny is a cooler rated for the load.
-Steve
Post by: Buckmark on January 22, 2010, 01:37:06 PM
[/quote]
The allison has an external filter which is an easy service
The recommendation is every 50k for fluid service under "Normal" conditions which in a truck means only driving to church.
The recommendation for "Severe" service is every 25k - use this recommendation.
I dont service these units as there is a special adapter for the cooler line for doing the fluid exchange/flush.
The adapter is actually listed under a service bulletin from GM as
A/T Allison cooler line adapter tool/flushing
Post by: jackelope on January 22, 2010, 01:37:56 PM
crazy stuff...that was back when cars had maintenance intervals on them. all this no maintenance crap is sucking the gravy out of me.
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on January 22, 2010, 01:42:49 PM
OK, I'm bashing Government Motors now.. Sorry. Yes, Ford and Dodge have also had issues with automatic tranny's behind diesel engines..
That's why I have the ZF6spd behind my Power Stroke! :chuckle:
And those soccer mom minivans.. C'mon.. The Bic lighter is disposable. So are minivans!
-Steve
Post by: Woodchuck on January 22, 2010, 01:43:31 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 22, 2010, 01:45:05 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on January 22, 2010, 01:52:01 PM
Post by: Buckmark on January 22, 2010, 01:55:12 PM
*
They did remove this fine feature to prevent unknowledgable and uninformend people from adding the incorrct fluid to the trans and causing problems.
*
If the manufctures would all get together and adopt industry wide fluids for systems we would all be alot better off.
Post by: Woodchuck on January 22, 2010, 01:59:49 PM
Post by: Crunchy on January 22, 2010, 02:05:01 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 22, 2010, 02:06:24 PM
Post by: Buckmark on January 22, 2010, 02:12:06 PM
Post by: Crunchy on January 22, 2010, 02:14:26 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on January 22, 2010, 02:15:49 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on January 22, 2010, 02:19:17 PM
Drain the pan, change the filter at the bare minumum. Drill and tap the convertor and get rid of that fluid is even better.
47RH thru 48RE covers model years '94 thru early '07 with the CTD engine.
ATF+4 or greater only.
Post by: Buckmark on January 22, 2010, 02:19:45 PM
Post by: Crunchy on January 22, 2010, 02:21:19 PM
buy a lottery ticket, your a lucky man
I do an still cant win, got 4 out of 5 numbers, but that was only worth a c-note.
Post by: Al Bundy on January 22, 2010, 02:22:16 PM
Quote
On another note.. Small shop? How well do you know this mechanic? Sales tactic? I remember when I ran a gas station with service bays. Oh, we did tires and oil leaks and alignments and oil changes, brake jobs.. tuneups. Anything shy of pulling a tranny, diff or engine. With every oil change we had a list (that I wrote) of things to check and ask the customer if they wanted us to replace. Who really changes their antifreeze/coolant?.. Or thier air filter when they should? We'd talk the customer into another job. It was easy to look at the owners manual to see when the prescribed interval was to convince the auto owner.
-Steve
They are an independent shop that will do everything including transmissions, engine rebuilds yada, yada, yada. I've been using them for a couple of years now. I know a couple of other people who use them too. They do great work for a good price and won't try to upsell you anything that isn't necessary.
Post by: Buckmark on January 22, 2010, 02:25:38 PM
Yes. :hello:
Post by: Woodchuck on January 22, 2010, 02:28:23 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 22, 2010, 02:29:40 PM
For any of you Dodge truck owners, DO NOT flush the 47RH, 47 RE or 48RE transmissions.Chrysler says no flushes at all.
Drain the pan, change the filter at the bare minumum. Drill and tap the convertor and get rid of that fluid is even better.
47RH thru 48RE covers model years '94 thru early '07 with the CTD engine.
ATF+4 or greater only.
Post by: jackelope on January 22, 2010, 02:32:17 PM
Quote
.....won't try to upsell you anything that isn't necessary.a transmission flush is not necessary.
I say NO. How are you gonna see if there's a trans issue developing when you don't pull the pan and instead you flush everything out without looking?
Post by: Buckmark on January 22, 2010, 02:34:54 PM
Read my first response to this post...Quote.....won't try to upsell you anything that isn't necessary.a transmission flush is not necessary.
I say NO. How are you gonna see if there's a trans issue developing when you don't pull the pan and instead you flush everything out without looking?
Post by: jackelope on January 22, 2010, 02:38:25 PM
That would be the only way to see it but then you're double-dipping and it costs 2x the amount. I'm one of those types that doesn't necessarily believe in the need for trans flushes in case you haven't figured that out yet.
Post by: Buckmark on January 22, 2010, 02:59:49 PM
From what we have gathered the vehicle has 85k on it.
Has had the ATF filter changed once at 35k.
We do not know the year of the vehicle but a sample of Kia Rio recommendations and not others, is under "Normal" Driving conditions the ATF should be serviced at 105k, no recommendation on the type of service just that a service should be performend.
Very few people actually fall into the "Normal" service catagory.
If we look at "Severe" service the recommended interval is now at every 30k, again with no mention to what type, just service.
I am unable to find a recommendation on the filter for any service interval.
So given that the vehicle has 50k since the last filter change/service, my recommendation would be again, pull the pan, replace the filter and machine service (flush) out the system on this Kia Rio.
*
If Dodge/Chrysler, Toyota or whomever did not have a "Do Not Flush" service bulletin on there vehicles then the service departments would be selling them.
Post by: timberghost72 on January 22, 2010, 07:42:43 PM
Now that we have gone almost 4 pages, how about a show of hands as to whether he should or should not have this service performend.
Yes. :hello:
Uhhh... Yes. :hello: You are not going to hurt your transmission by flushing it out unless it is the consistancy of mud. Sounds like the fluid is ok so flush it out. If your worried about it then drain the fluid and change the filter and then drain the torque converter. Fill 'er up and you'll be good to go.
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on January 22, 2010, 11:08:12 PM
I vote drain and filter change if anything at all.
Quote
How are you gonna see if there's a trans issue developing when you don't pull the pan and instead you flush everything out without looking?By sending the oil sample off to a lab to be analized to see what is breaking down in the transmission. :chuckle:
I've done it to my truck diesel 'engine' oil twice. Nothing abnormal reported.
Would I do that for a lesser vehicle that I didn't expect to run for 400,000 miles? No.
-Steve
Post by: high country on January 22, 2010, 11:13:02 PM
Post by: mhadix on January 23, 2010, 06:15:49 AM
Post by: jackelope on January 23, 2010, 08:16:06 AM
Quote
I've done it to my truck diesel 'engine' oil twice. Nothing abnormal reported.
never done it or had it done to any of my customer's vehicles. one time i had a grand cherokee that jiffy lube forgot to put oil in and they had us pull an oil sample and they sent it to a lab after we put oil back in it. thats a whole nother topic...
Post by: Geno on January 23, 2010, 08:39:56 AM
Post by: TheHunt on January 23, 2010, 08:50:11 AM
THink if this...
A flush is a violent push of the fluid through your transmission. If there is any debris in your pan, which there is a magnet that picks up the metal shavings and anything else that has happens to be there. In an automatic transmission there is too much crap to go wrong. You will not get all the old fluid out if you drop the pan but you will NOT throw any thing that has dropped into the pan this sitting on the bottom of the pan back up into the transmission.
Just my opinion...
Post by: jackelope on January 23, 2010, 08:58:35 AM
Quote
THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 26-003-07, DATED
MARCH 30, 2007, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. THIS IS A
COMPLETE REVISION AND NO ASTERISKS HAVE BEEN USED TO HIGHLIGHT
REVISIONS.
SUBJECT:
Fluid Flushing Requirements
MODELS:
2005 - 2008 (CS) Pacifica
2006 - 2009 (D1) Ram Truck (3500 Pick Up)
2010 (D2) Ram Truck (3500 Pick Up)
2007 - 2010 (DC) Ram Truck (3500 Chassis Cab)
2005 - 2009 (DH) Ram Truck (1500/2500 Pick Up)
2010 (DJ) Ram Truck (2500 Pick Up)
2005 - 2008 (DR) Ram Truck (1500 / 2500 Pick Up)
2009 - 2010 (DS) Ram Truck (1500)
2005 - 2009 (HB) Durango
2007 - 2009 (HG) Aspen
2009 - 2010 (JC) Journey
2007 - 2010 (JK) Wrangler
2005- 2006 (JR) Sebring Sedan & Convertible/Stratus Sedan
2007 - 2010 (JS) Avenger/Sebring
2008 - 2010 (KK) Liberty
2007 - 2010 (KA) Nitro
2005 - 2007 (KJ) Liberty
2009 - 2010 (LC) Challenger
2005 - 2010 (LE) 300C/300C Touring (International Markets)
2005 - 2010 (LX) 300/Magnum/Charger
2007 - 2010 (MK) Compass/Patriot
2005 - 2010 (ND) Dakota
NUMBER: 26-001-09
GROUP: Miscellaneous
DATE: September 24, 2009
2005 - 2006 (PL) Neon
2007 - 2010 (PM) Caliber
2005 - 2010 (PT) Chrysler PT Cruiser
2005 - 2007 (RG) Chrysler Voyager (International Markets)
2005 - 2007 (RS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
2009 - 2010 (RT) Town & Country/Grand Caravan
2005 - 2006 (TJ) Wrangler
2005 - 2006 (VA) Sprinter
2007 - 2010 (VB) Sprinter
2005 - 2010 (WH) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)
2005 - 2010 (WK) Grand Cherokee
2006 - 2010 (XH) Commander (International Markets)
2006 - 2010 (XK) Commander
2005 - 2010 (ZB) Viper
2005 - 2007 (ZH) Crossfire
DISCUSSION:
Chrysler Group vehicle fluid systems do NOT require regular flushing. These systems
include: engine oil, transmission oil, axle lube, brake fluid, power steering fluid, and
refrigerant. The only exception to this requirement are published in the vehicle
maintenance schedules, e.g. engine coolant.
Exceptions to this recommendation include only those instances where a failure has
occurred and/or the system has become compromised, contaminated or overheated
beyond the normal operating range.
Chrysler Group does NOT recommend aftermarket chemicals to flush the engine,
transmission, brake or steering systems. Chemicals contained in these products can
damage the system elastomeric components, and contaminate the component fluid,
leading to loss of system/component durability and service life. When necessary, only the
original approved system fluid should be used to flush these components using teamPSEŽ
approved equipment.
If the engine coolant contains a considerable amount of sediment, clean and flush with
Mopar Cooling System Flush, p/n 04856977, or equivalent. Follow with a thorough rinsing
to remove all deposits and chemicals. Refill with a minimum of a 50% mixture of the
specified coolant and distilled water.
POLICY:
Information Only
Post by: Geno on January 23, 2010, 09:11:15 AM
I would never flush a transmission. I always drop the pan clean reinstall with a new gasket.
THink if this...
A flush is a violent push of the fluid through your transmission. If there is any debris in your pan, which there is a magnet that picks up the metal shavings and anything else that has happens to be there. In an automatic transmission there is too much crap to go wrong. You will not get all the old fluid out if you drop the pan but you will NOT throw any thing that has dropped into the pan this sitting on the bottom of the pan back up into the transmission.
Just my opinion...
A flush doesn't involve a violent push of fluid, it is done at a lower pressure than the trans operates at. When the flush is complete, the pan is dropped and the filter is changed. Thanks for the service bulletin Jackalope, it does say that flushing is not a requirement. It doesn't say that it cannot be performed though and does recommend it if you have overheated the fluid. My flush was done at a Dodge dealer, they recommended that I do it if I hauled heavy loads over the passes. I work my truck hard and know that my fluid has probably gotten hot a few times.
Post by: timberghost72 on January 23, 2010, 09:21:05 AM
You should change the filter before you flush the trans that way your new filter won't get any debris in it.
You can do this job yourself in your driveway and it works the same way. Pull the trans cooler hose off of the outlet side of your trans cooler. (outlet side because you want to flush the cooler out too). Connect a hose to the outlet and run the hose into a pan. Have someone start the vehicle and as the fluid is pumped out of the cooler into the pan, refill with fresh fluid with a funnel through the fill port or dipstick tube. This is basically how the flush machine works.
Hope this helps. Tony
Post by: jackelope on January 23, 2010, 09:23:35 AM
some transmission flushers use a chemical. all of the aftermarket flush machine companys push a chemical additive that i have dealt with. whether the shop chooses to use them is up to the shop.
the schedule A maintenance schedule for a transmission service on a 2500 ram truck is 100k miles. you'll never see me recommend that schedule, but it is acceptable by chrysler standards if they are not towing and heavy load, etc.
Post by: timberghost72 on January 23, 2010, 09:27:58 AM
Post by: Geno on January 23, 2010, 09:31:17 AM
Post by: jackelope on January 23, 2010, 09:33:19 AM
Rairdon's recommended a transmission flush because they make money off of you. the service advisor got $2 cash for it and the tech got a spiff too.
Timberghost...no need to explain to a few of us how a flush works...a few of us in this thread are surrounded by this stuff every day. there are chemicals added...trust me...if the shop uses chemicals. Rairdons, for example, uses chemicals when they flush transmissions...just ask me, i know.
Post by: timberghost72 on January 23, 2010, 09:42:52 AM
Post by: Geno on January 23, 2010, 09:59:28 AM
Post by: Hilltophustler on January 23, 2010, 10:54:31 AM
Post by: jackelope on January 23, 2010, 10:56:28 AM
judging by where you live only, i am assuming you took your truck to rairdons. i used to work for him and the service writers would make an extra couple hundred bucks a month just off of keeping the chemical bottle caps from the flush companies. if you were a tech you probably know how this works. i had a fellow service writer at a different dealership that made a grand one month just on spiffs for selling flushes.