Post by: Michelle_Nelson on February 02, 2010, 08:04:32 PM
Groundskeepers at the Capitol have been using illegal body-gripping traps to capture and kill moles, but stopped after complaints and a Department of Fish and Wildlife investigation got under way this morning.
Voters approved Initiative 713 in 2000, outlawing the use of body-gripping traps, including mole traps. Violating the law is a misdemeanor, but Fish and Wildlife enforcement chief Bruce Bjork usually treats the offenses as more of a molehill than a mountain.
He said no citation is likely in this case involving the Department of General Administration, which is typical for when homeowners goof and a neighbor rats them out.
GA spokesman Steve Valandra said groundskeepers have used five to 10 of the illegal traps on campus lawns, including at the Governor’s Mansion, for a few years — apparently unaware of the law. They’ve since pulled out the traps, but will consider getting permits to use legal traps, he said.
Republican state Rep. Joel Kretz of Wauconda brought the issue to light late Monday, taking pictures of two mole traps set into a grassy strip near the Capitol’s greenhouse. He said it showed a double standard he’s often seen in Olympia: “Do as I say, not as I do.’’
“The irony is if I’ve got coyotes killing my sheep I can’t put a trap out. But if you’ve got a mole on the Capitol Campus, you can,’’ Kretz said, suggesting there is a need to change the law so that people protecting their property and crops from animal damage can use traps for that purpose.
Fish and Wildlife spokesman Craig Bartlett said the agency has tried to change the law, but without success. “There have been a number of efforts to amend that law, and we have supported those efforts for moles. We’ve also sought exemptions for mountain beaver, coyotes and other troublesome critters that are hard to trap otherwise,’’ Bartlett said.
Kretz said the incident should be a call for another look at the law by lawmakers and Gov. Chris Gregoire. He blamed former Gov. Gary Locke then Gregoire for inaction. He said Gregoire has had the benefit of State Patrol troopers and trappers in 2006 to deal with raccoon that that bothered her dog.
Bjork said the agency has cited “commercial operators” that used illegal traps, and that the offense is a misdemeanor, subject to penalties up to 90 days jail and $1,000 in fines.
In this case, Bjork said, “We are investigating it. I’ve already talked to the director of GA. They’re well aware of it. They have removed the traps. And we will interview the folks that were involved. And we’ll of course make sure they know it’s a state law violation. We’ll probably give them a warning not to do it again — cease and desist, but we will have it documented.’’
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on February 02, 2010, 08:07:48 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 02, 2010, 08:38:59 PM
Post by: whacker1 on February 02, 2010, 08:44:02 PM
Ignorance is not an excuse.
Mr Kretz has been putting a lot of energy into Hypocritical activities, because Olympia is riddled with Hypocrites. He can't get much done as a rural republican, so he seems to be focusing on exposing the hypocrites.
All this is of course my opinion
Post by: bobcat on February 02, 2010, 08:50:37 PM
I would probably feel differently if the state has been actively pursuing illegal mole trapping activities, but I'm pretty sure they are not.
Post by: tony04 on February 02, 2010, 08:59:44 PM
Post by: sisu on February 02, 2010, 09:05:25 PM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on February 02, 2010, 09:07:49 PM
Post by: wolfbait on February 02, 2010, 09:33:55 PM
Mr. Kretz is my 7th district and I love this guy. He has stones enough to call a spade a spade and not sugar coat it. He and his two partners fight for their voters.
:yeah:
Post by: Hangfire on February 02, 2010, 10:28:59 PM
I talked to my local Wildlife Agent about trapping pocket gophers. I was told they had more important things to do, than chase around after mole or pocket gopher trapping. There has been at least one arrest to a commercial trapper, who was warned before hand.
A friend of mine built a lethal, non body gripping mole trap. The trap which fits in the tunnel has a mechanical sensor (wire) in the tunnel that when pushed by the mole, trips a spring which strikes a nail, which strikes a 12 gauge shot gun shell held in a pipe. This works every time, and is very dangerous and probably illegal under federal law. He built it only to see if he could and no longer uses it.
Post by: bow4elk on February 02, 2010, 10:36:52 PM
Post by: Shootmoore on February 02, 2010, 10:38:58 PM
Gopher Control (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GVpLnSXQwc#)
Or I could suggest a profesional to em.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft2.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AYNUGR01H1qf8cM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fblog.newsok.com%2Fstaticblog%2Ffiles%2F2007%2F08%2Fcaddyshack.jpg&hash=876a3bf3ad9a87b896ad82cff97fdeae852cddb3)
Shootmoore
Post by: Al Bundy on February 02, 2010, 10:49:01 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg132.imageshack.us%2Fimg132%2F7969%2Fbillmurraycarlcaddyshac.jpg&hash=a80ba7b06d76010dc5fb6733b9df83bd8c171178) (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/billmurraycarlcaddyshac.jpg/)
"License to kill gophers by the government of the United Nations. Man, free to kill gophers at will. To kill, you must know your enemy, and in this case my enemy is a varmint. And a varmint will never quit - ever. They're like the Viet Cong - Varmint Cong. So you have to fall back on superior intelligence and superior firepower. And that's all she wrote."
Post by: bow4elk on February 02, 2010, 11:12:31 PM
Post by: CastleRocker on February 03, 2010, 03:44:55 AM
Maybe they will let me bring one of these downs to get rid of em? I think I'll email it to them and offer my services.
Gopher Control (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GVpLnSXQwc#)
Or I could suggest a profesional to em.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft2.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AYNUGR01H1qf8cM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fblog.newsok.com%2Fstaticblog%2Ffiles%2F2007%2F08%2Fcaddyshack.jpg&hash=876a3bf3ad9a87b896ad82cff97fdeae852cddb3)
Shootmoore
Those WORK! I have a friend who bought one and uses it in his fields. Just make sure you know where their tunnels go and where their air holes are before you hit the striker! There have been a couple close ones.
Post by: Ghost Hunter on February 03, 2010, 05:21:58 AM
There are alternative methods that involve pesticides or some form of explosive. What would be your choice for use around your kids?
Post by: Ghost Hunter on February 03, 2010, 05:31:03 AM
This is what happens when the animal rights freaks push inititiatives that are just plain stupid - a complete and utter waste of tax payer money. I think they SHOULD be using body-gripping mole traps, and I think everyone else in Washington should too because guess what? They work really well! :stup:
May get flamed for this one but once the law was passed, if you recall it was the trappers that led the charge to keep it from changing and removing the trapping of moles from the law. All or none was their perspective.
Post by: ICEMAN on February 03, 2010, 05:58:08 AM
Gregoire inherited this problem and intends to deal with it. She will never quit.
Post by: GrainfedMuley on February 03, 2010, 06:05:45 AM
I love the comment about how they have been using them and were unaware of the law.
Uuuhhhh....ignorance is no defense in a court of law.......... :twocents:
Post by: Curly on February 03, 2010, 07:37:17 AM
I would probably feel differently if the state has been actively pursuing illegal mole trapping activities, but I'm pretty sure they are not.
I remember a professional mole trapper that was put out of business by the State. The WDFW did a stake out and caught him using the scissor traps. This was several years ago, somewhere up around Seattle or that vicinity if I remember right. I'll try google and see if I can find it.
Post by: bobcat on February 03, 2010, 07:39:05 AM
I would probably feel differently if the state has been actively pursuing illegal mole trapping activities, but I'm pretty sure they are not.
I remember a professional mole trapper that was put out of business by the State. The WDFW did a stake out and caught him using the scissor traps. This was several years ago, somewhere up around Seattle or that vicinity if I remember right. I'll try google and see if I can find it.
Yeah, well someone shouldn't go around blatantly breaking the law, for all the animal lovers to see. Do that and the WDFW will have no choice but to enforce the stupid law.
Post by: Curly on February 03, 2010, 07:45:01 AM
Quote
For his part, Dunshee said he believes the March raids were "all politics" -- a move by the Department of Fish and Wildlife to pressure the Legislature into striking down the trapping ban.
Dunshee said he and several other legislators are trying to generate a little pressure of their own, through the state operations budget. As presented to Gov. Gregoire, the budget includes a proviso that the Department of Fish and Wildlife spend no money enforcing the ban on mole trapping
Looks like WDFW may not be actively enforcing the ban anymore, thanks to some legislators........ :) Hopefully the *censored* hits the fan again about this issue.
Post by: Bob33 on February 03, 2010, 07:46:18 AM
Hats off to the Chief for the way he handled it.
Post by: Curly on February 03, 2010, 07:48:31 AM
Yeah, well someone shouldn't go around blatantly breaking the law, for all the animal lovers to see. Do that and the WDFW will have no choice but to enforce the stupid law.
I agree that WDFW was probably forced to enforce the law. But I'm just frustrated that they weren't more vocal against the stupid law back when this was up for initiative. I seem to remember them saying that they would not enforce it at that time.
Post by: bobcat on February 03, 2010, 07:50:09 AM
I really think the mole was just checking his shadow...
it.
LOL........That's right, it WAS Groundhog Day!
Post by: Curly on February 03, 2010, 07:52:35 AM
Post by: Curly on February 03, 2010, 07:55:53 AM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,44142.msg532960.html#msg532960 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,44142.msg532960.html#msg532960)
Post by: bobcat on February 03, 2010, 08:45:23 AM
Post by: MikeWalking on February 03, 2010, 09:21:39 AM
Now is someone going to tell me they were hired out of the parking lot at Home Depot?
Post by: Curly on February 03, 2010, 09:32:15 AM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on February 03, 2010, 09:43:32 AM
http://www.theolympian.com/breakingnews/story/1123885.html (http://www.theolympian.com/breakingnews/story/1123885.html)
Groundskeepers at the Capitol have been using illegal body-gripping traps to capture and kill moles, but stopped after complaints and a Department of Fish and Wildlife investigation got under way this morning.
Voters approved Initiative 713 in 2000, outlawing the use of body-gripping traps, including mole traps. Violating the law is a misdemeanor, but Fish and Wildlife enforcement chief Bruce Bjork usually treats the offenses as more of a molehill than a mountain.
He said no citation is likely in this case involving the Department of General Administration, which is typical for when homeowners goof and a neighbor rats them out.
GA spokesman Steve Valandra said groundskeepers have used five to 10 of the illegal traps on campus lawns, including at the Governor’s Mansion, for a few years — apparently unaware of the law. They’ve since pulled out the traps, but will consider getting permits to use legal traps, he said.
Republican state Rep. Joel Kretz of Wauconda brought the issue to light late Monday, taking pictures of two mole traps set into a grassy strip near the Capitol’s greenhouse. He said it showed a double standard he’s often seen in Olympia: “Do as I say, not as I do.’’
“The irony is if I’ve got coyotes killing my sheep I can’t put a trap out. But if you’ve got a mole on the Capitol Campus, you can,’’ Kretz said, suggesting there is a need to change the law so that people protecting their property and crops from animal damage can use traps for that purpose.
Fish and Wildlife spokesman Craig Bartlett said the agency has tried to change the law, but without success. “There have been a number of efforts to amend that law, and we have supported those efforts for moles. We’ve also sought exemptions for mountain beaver, coyotes and other troublesome critters that are hard to trap otherwise,’’ Bartlett said.
Kretz said the incident should be a call for another look at the law by lawmakers and Gov. Chris Gregoire. He blamed former Gov. Gary Locke then Gregoire for inaction. He said Gregoire has had the benefit of State Patrol troopers and trappers in 2006 to deal with raccoon that that bothered her dog.
Bjork said the agency has cited “commercial operators” that used illegal traps, and that the offense is a misdemeanor, subject to penalties up to 90 days jail and $1,000 in fines.
In this case, Bjork said, “We are investigating it. I’ve already talked to the director of GA. They’re well aware of it. They have removed the traps. And we will interview the folks that were involved. And we’ll of course make sure they know it’s a state law violation. We’ll probably give them a warning not to do it again — cease and desist, but we will have it documented.’’
Seems the Governor knows about as much of what's going on at the Capitol as she does the rest of the State....
Post by: bobcat on February 03, 2010, 10:17:32 AM
It is pretty funny though, that the state government got caught violating that law. :chuckle:
Post by: shoot-em-dead on February 03, 2010, 10:18:39 AM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on February 03, 2010, 10:23:20 AM
I don't like Gregoire anymore than anybody else, but you really can't expect her to keep track of how the landscapers do their job. I'd think she'd have more important things to worry about than that.
It is pretty funny though, that the state government got caught violating that law. :chuckle:
You don't know what goes on at your own house? I have to disagree, the traps are pretty dam obvious, in my view, if you are that adamant about supporting banning them, then it would logically fall in your own interest to inquire how your own groundskeepers are controlling them when asked to do so. That's not a service that is provided unless asked for. Who asked for it? Good question at the least, thus the investigation.
Post by: bobcat on February 03, 2010, 10:34:08 AM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on February 03, 2010, 10:36:48 AM
Quote
There are alternative methods that involve pesticides or some form of explosive. What would be your choice for use around your kids?
EXPLOSIVES! Kids are already too involved with chemicals these days! :chuckle:
(Oh, My kids? They're smart enough to stay away from dangerous things.)
Where are comments from Machias? Rasbo with his pitchfork? (I haven't been home enough during day light to get any with pitchfork lately)
Could you just see that.. A guy walking around the state capital with a pointy pitch fork in his hand looking at the fresh Mole hills talking like Carl Spackler on Caddy Shack? The WSP would lock him up and throw away the key.
Ignorance is not acceptable in a court of law. If I speed, driving a state vehicle, I'll get a citation! I don't like the double standard of this... The grounds crew supervisor should know the law! That law is no secret! Hell, If'n y'all remember right, I got called a poacher for using this form of trap. (Hey, I'm just jokin Machias) I am now a reformed poacher using pitchfork instead of restraining trap. :chuckle:
-Steve
Post by: Shootmoore on February 03, 2010, 10:42:06 AM
Shootmoore
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on February 03, 2010, 10:43:28 AM
Oh come on, I doubt if Gregoire would know what a trap looked like. GA has employees who take care of all the landscaping around the Capitol campus and I'm sure the same people take care of the governor's mansion. Gregoire didn't have to specifically request somebody come out to her house to get rid of the moles. I doubt if she had a clue how her landscaping was being taken care of.
I guess we'll see. Knowing something of contract's, unless it's a very poorly written contract, the services are specified prior to acceptance. If mole control is included, the method is specified. At the very least it should be an educational experience (though I doubt it). There aren't any other real viable ways to control them, do you really think that no one is paying attention to dozen's of mole hills on the front lawn and didn't bother to request they disappear? In the contract world, mole control is what's called a user-call service, that means someone has to make a call and specifically ask for it. The homeowner has a responsibility to know what contracted services are happening on their property if they signed the agreement, that's the way it works for the average joe, but not alway's for GOV.
Post by: whacker1 on February 03, 2010, 11:02:54 AM
Besides she raised the governor's staff from 20 - 40 when she got elected, so she has ample bodies that should be able to keep track of trivial stuff like this.
Post by: Machias on February 03, 2010, 11:48:23 AM
QuoteThere are alternative methods that involve pesticides or some form of explosive. What would be your choice for use around your kids?
EXPLOSIVES! Kids are already too involved with chemicals these days! :chuckle:
(Oh, My kids? They're smart enough to stay away from dangerous things.)
Where are comments from Machias?
-Steve
:) Trust me, I have been biting my tongue for a couple of days, but I'm NOT going to get involved with this one, we all know how that went last time and I don't care to make the same mistakes. :)
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 03, 2010, 12:11:25 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on February 03, 2010, 01:49:34 PM
Quote
Trust me, I have been biting my tongue for a couple of days, but I'm NOT going to get involved with this one,
Damn man! You're no fun! I waited a bit to post also..
I know this topic is precious to you. And I see all sides of the issue. You're not alone in how you feel.
-Steve
I made a mistake once... ;)
Post by: sisu on February 03, 2010, 02:14:39 PM
Maybe they will let me bring one of these downs to get rid of em? I think I'll email it to them and offer my services.
Gopher Control (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GVpLnSXQwc#)
Or I could suggest a profesional to em.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft2.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AYNUGR01H1qf8cM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fblog.newsok.com%2Fstaticblog%2Ffiles%2F2007%2F08%2Fcaddyshack.jpg&hash=876a3bf3ad9a87b896ad82cff97fdeae852cddb3)
Shootmoore
They need to hire Carl Spackler.use these two and Grounds Keeper Willy!(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frds.yahoo.com%2F_ylt%3DA0S0200y9WlL82QAkfmjzbkF%2FSIG%3D12id6j8fp%2FEXP%3D1265321650%2F%2A%2Ahttp%253a%2F%2Fwww.laputan.org%2Fimages%2Fpictures%2FGroundskeeperWilly2.gif&hash=b04b102c86ce0c34fa062468f7d37b822085037e)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg132.imageshack.us%2Fimg132%2F7969%2Fbillmurraycarlcaddyshac.jpg&hash=a80ba7b06d76010dc5fb6733b9df83bd8c171178) (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/billmurraycarlcaddyshac.jpg/)
"License to kill gophers by the government of the United Nations. Man, free to kill gophers at will. To kill, you must know your enemy, and in this case my enemy is a varmint. And a varmint will never quit - ever. They're like the Viet Cong - Varmint Cong. So you have to fall back on superior intelligence and superior firepower. And that's all she wrote."
Post by: MikeWalking on February 03, 2010, 05:42:13 PM
I go home..after kill every dirty stinking VarmintCong
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on February 03, 2010, 05:57:17 PM
I don't like Gregoire anymore than anybody else, but you really can't expect her to keep track of how the landscapers do their job. I'd think she'd have more important things to worry about than that.
:) Like raising taxes.
Post by: bobcat on February 03, 2010, 06:27:04 PM
:) Like raising taxes.
Exactly. And other stuff.
Post by: Curly on February 03, 2010, 06:41:17 PM
:) Like raising taxes.
Exactly. And other stuff.
Yeah, she's probably trying to figure out how she can get a State income tax implemented in WA. Did you notice how she was really liking how Oregon just raised their state income tax......
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on February 03, 2010, 07:27:49 PM
Post by: jackelope on February 04, 2010, 02:22:02 PM
Quote
Officials now say that some of those accused of using banned body-gripping mole traps at the Capitol Campus in Olympia did so knowing that the traps were illegal.
On Wednesday Department of General Administration spokesman Steve Valandra said that groundskeepers were, "not out there looking for laws to violate, they're just taking care of moles (which is) one of the jobs they have."
But in a live interview on the Dori Monson show on Thursday Valandra admitted that new information indicates that at least some employees knew that the traps they were using were illegal.
"You want to believe what your employees initially are telling you is the right thing. You want to believe in them," Valandra said, "We'll just take our lumps and hold people accountable and see what happens."
Valandra responded to a request from Dori Monson after the show received a whistleblower email that claimed employees knew the traps were illegal but were forced to use them anyway. Valandra would not say whether those being scrutinized for the traps were groundskeepers or supervisors.
When asked point blank by Monson whether people involved with setting the traps knew they were illegal, Valandra responded by saying, "I believe some of them did know that yes." Although he qualified his answer by saying they are still sorting out conflicting stories from employees.
A state ban on animal trapping was approved by an initiative in 2000.
On Tuesday the Olympian reported the mole traps were spotted by state Rep. Joe Kretz, R-Wauconda. Who said, "In Olympia, do as we say, not as we do."
On Wednesday Valandra said that the groundskeepers would receive a warning, which he called typical for first time offenders.
Comments (1)
Add A Comment
0
0
roguehawkfan1119 wrote...
What? They lied? To us, the people?....
NO WAY! Our elected leaders or their minions coould never, nay would never deceive the tax paying public....just the thought of that makes me sick to my stomach. It must be a mistake... Baaaaaa, baaaaaa.....
February 4, 2010 1:56 pm
149485
0
Post by: Cylvertip on February 05, 2010, 04:13:37 PM
Technically you can have the traps ( still available at a lot of hardware stores) but can't put them in action. Same goes for footholds and conibears.
The only traps legal to use without special permit are cage traps and commercially produced mouse and rat traps (unmodified).
Actually, there could be a loophole here. During the Nuisance Wildlife Control course I took in 2001, which was put on by WDFW at the Mill Creek office, it was stated that property owners could do/use what ever they wanted. And, if you were the employee of a company - meaning on the payroll, taxes, W-2's, etc, - you could trap on that employers property using "body gripping traps" - had to have a license also. That's how Weyerhaeuserare is able to take care of the varmints without a mountain of paperwork. The question then would be if these guys had trappers licenses???? Doubt it, who would think you need one for a freaking mole. I think if they did have a regular trapping license, they would technically be OK.
Post by: Viszla on February 08, 2010, 08:16:09 AM
Post by: usmc74 on March 01, 2010, 09:00:08 PM
I might just have to sit on top of my roof with the 10/22
Post by: Cylvertip on March 02, 2010, 12:14:59 PM
Are those traps that plunge the spikes into the ground legal?
I might just have to sit on top of my roof with the 10/22
Technically, the impaling/ body piercing traps are viewed as body gripping as well - so also illegal to use in theory :rolleyes: