Post by: lokidog on March 10, 2010, 03:59:39 PM
Does anyone know why in a flock of thirteen birds there would only be two (maybe three) males? It is not because the males have all been shot. These mostly appear to be young birds so maybe the jakes just aren't obvious yet. There seems to be mostly hens out here which seems odd since I only know of one tom being taken on the island in the last three years.
Post by: Tom Tamer on March 10, 2010, 04:55:41 PM
Those birds on Decatur Isl.? How long have they been there? Probably someone at one time let som loose or maybe they're feral? also could be an Island that small maybe last winter the Predators got to most of the Toms? IMO
Post by: lokidog on March 10, 2010, 05:12:47 PM
A resident released them 15 or so years ago. They are finally showing up more on our end of the island as they used to spend most of their time in a protected area. Last year I let a tom live that was courting our pet hen (with a tag in my pocket). He sired at least six chicks in the next door neighbor's yard. The same guy let pheasants go here as well but they only lasted a couple of years because of the racoons.
Post by: Tom Tamer on March 10, 2010, 05:31:39 PM
Post by: turkeydancer on March 10, 2010, 05:44:45 PM
And if not imprinted by a wild hen, they don't have the instincts for survival ... makes preditors extremely happy. :twocents:
Post by: lokidog on March 10, 2010, 07:03:50 PM
I probably will not shoot one this year either because I want to see them expand more to our end of the island and there just don't seem to be many toms.
Post by: Birdguy on March 10, 2010, 07:30:15 PM
I would just enjoy them as long as you can :).
Post by: Wacenturion on March 10, 2010, 09:45:11 PM
Be careful alerting our state :bdid:. I know some may already know they are there, but your phone call (no matter your intentions) could be the one that brings in the game dept. to kill them off. Our wonderful WDFW has not been real helpful in the turkey area since we raised the tag prices and now have no state management plan. There are plenty of folks who will tell you they are not wild and will never be as they have pen raised birds in their past. Most likely our state will kill them all off to ensure they are not carring any diseases (that will be their excuse anyhow):twocents:.
I would just enjoy them as long as you can :).
No, WDFW won't kill them off........not worth the effort. I guess I'm one of those people that's going tell you they're game farm birds pure and simple, and that's all they will ever be. However some people enjoy seeing them and even shooting them, so as long as they are not causing someone an ongoing problem and they are somewhat confined and residents keep adding new members to the flock, they will continue to there...........my guess anyway.
Post by: lokidog on March 11, 2010, 07:59:21 AM
If they never do, then I guess all of the turkeys in WA are game farm birds.....
Post by: Wacenturion on March 11, 2010, 09:40:18 AM
Just curious WACENT, how many generations does it take for a non-native transplanted animal to become "wild"? If a population of birds has been self-sustaining for 15 or more years, isn't that a wild population?
If they never do, then I guess all of the turkeys in WA are game farm birds.....
First of all, lets be clear...............by your statement you must be assuming that non native transplanted animals, like turkeys are or were game farm reared or from game farm stock. Turkeys from game farm stock are not wild and generally do not ever become wild in the true sense, as they are tame and used to people, either by imprinting on humans or by taught behavior by the tamed down traits of the flock.
Wild turkeys released for the purposes of establishing populations in Washington from the mid 80's to 2000, as well as the initial early releases of a few birds in the 60's, were wild trapped birds from other states....not reared in someones pen or a game farm. They don't require any generations to become wild.......they already are. Stating that all the turkeys in Washington must be game farm birds based on your "self sustaining status for 15 years or more statement" is absurd.
If you and others enjoy game farm birds for whatever purpose, so be it. Nothing wrong with that, but don't try to convince folks they are wild or will eventually become wild or they are an answer to areas without birds. Wild turkeys will with the right circumstances such as inclement weather and feeding either out of a cattle lot or people putting out food will tame down in varying degrees. However come spring they leave those sites and habits to do their thing for the rest of the year. Game farm stock birds are always tame and never exhibit a state of being truly wild.
Post by: lokidog on March 11, 2010, 09:58:18 AM
I personally don't give a rat's ass about what you think the birds near my home are. I have seen turkeys act more wary than these and some a heck of a lot less wary. These birds are a lot more wary than most of the deer here. Maybe we have game farm deer since they will eat out of a feeder, come up on our decks, and even stand within 15 feet while using a chopsaw....
As a genetics expert, can you explain how the domestic gene works and is passed on to a poult that is hatched in the woods avoiding predators like racoons and hawks.
Respectfully, get over yourself Mr. Expert.
Post by: Wacenturion on March 11, 2010, 10:25:25 AM
Sorry to rain on your parade, but that's exactly what happened over a period of years. Here is a bit of history for you...........
http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=8444 (http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=8444)
I too don't give a rats ass about those birds. I was just responding to your loaded question. Prior to that I was simply answering a concern by Birdguy about keeping it quiet. As far as deer, turkey, chipmunks, butterflies or whatever other living organism that tames down and interacts with people in, around or on their decks......it happens. That however doesn't mean it goes the other way, except in hogs who do have an ability to quickly revert to a wild state.
Sorry if you took offense.
Post by: Wacenturion on March 11, 2010, 11:03:02 AM
I believe Tamer's right - still in pecking order groups versus breeding groups ... toms won't be too far off though.
And if not imprinted by a wild hen, they don't have the instincts for survival ... makes preditors extremely happy. :twocents:
To go back to your original question, I think both Tamer and Dancer answered it. It's likely a few more toms are around somewhere, just not with the hens, jennys and jakes, who generally winter together.
Post by: zach1234 on March 17, 2010, 09:18:31 PM