Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: colockumelk on March 17, 2010, 02:17:34 PM

Title: Biology Paper Poll: Look at my post for the question
Post by: colockumelk on March 17, 2010, 02:17:34 PM: Sorry I mess up the question. This is what it should have said: I am doing a paper on why the Colockum herd is hurting while across the street (I-90) the herd in PMU 33 (GMU 336,346,340 and 342) are doing exceptionally well. The core reason for the Colockums "plight" is that it can not retain enough spikes through the hunting season to offset the amount of branch bulls that die every year. So what would you like to see happen in the Colockum?

Sorry again I know this is just :beatdeadhorse: but I'd rather poll you guys who are real hunters than a bunch of peacnik hippy college kids. My professor says I need at least 50 polls for it to count. Thankyou again.
Title: Re: Biology Paper Poll: Look at my post for the question
Post by: bearpaw on March 17, 2010, 02:43:36 PM: vote cast good luck...
Title: Re: Biology Paper Poll: Look at my post for the question
Post by: luvtohnt on March 17, 2010, 03:04:41 PM: What biology class, and who is the teacher?

Brandon
Title: Re: Biology Paper Poll: Look at my post for the question
Post by: Curly on March 17, 2010, 03:24:36 PM: Hope you get enough votes on here.
Title: Re: Biology Paper Poll: Look at my post for the question
Post by: jackelope on March 17, 2010, 05:06:16 PM: vote cast ^^^^
Title: Re: Biology Paper Poll: Look at my post for the question
Post by: Sawbuck on March 17, 2010, 05:45:47 PM: If you kill them when they are spikes or kill them when big bulls they are just as dead. You will have a bigger problem if you end up with just a bunch of cows and spikes running around, and not enough mature bulls to do the breeding. The true spike thing doesn't seem like a good move just because opens the door to more wasted elk if hunters are shooting 1x2 on accident. The numbers from Table 2 pg 78 of the Status report show a good increase in elk numbers in the years following the spike only change. It also appears like there are already enough spikes being "retained" to "offset the amount of branch bulls that die every year." I'm not saying nothing needs to be done, just that the CE permit only plan might not be the best. I copied the table below for reference only, and didn't copy all of the foot notes.
Table 2. Colockum elk winter composition 1990-2009.

Antlerless Bulls Total (per 100 cows)
Year Cow Calves Spike Branched Elk Calves Bulls
1991 559 213 23 795 38 4
1992 1,314 309 16 9 2,099 23 2
1993 1,439 607 22 6 2,074 42 2
1994 NO DATA
1995 1,197 409 14 36 1,656 34 4
1996 1,597 486 88 66 2,237 30 10
1997 1,581 467 16 75 2,139 30 6
1998 2,807 854 88 60 3,809 30 5
1999 3,871 1,061 84 242 5,258 27 8
2000 2,697 570 60 130 3,457 21 7
2001 3,464 719 100 170 4,453 21 8
2002 2,800 829 119 391 4,172 30 18
2003 3,060 526 96 238 3,920 17 11
2004 2,388 782 63 209 3,442 33 11
2005 3,084 770 46 86 3,986 25 4
2006 2,244 873 73 116 3,306 39 8
2007 2,829 843 130 116 3,918 30 9
2008 2,859 917 43 72 3,890 32 4
2009 3,000 590 70 85 3,745 20 5
Title: Re: Biology Paper Poll: Look at my post for the question
Post by: Curly on March 17, 2010, 05:54:41 PM: Maybe they should go to the Unicorn plan......you can only shoot if it has 1 antler.... :P
Title: Re: Biology Paper Poll: Look at my post for the question
Post by: colockumelk on March 18, 2010, 09:29:16 AM: Sawbuck the problem stems from this. On average only 17% of spikes live through that hunting season. On average only 81 spikes live through the hunting season. From this number subtract 7% which will die of natural causes and woundings. So now we've recruited 76 spikes. On average another 34 branch bulls are killed in the Colockum. So now we have only recruited 42 bulls for that year. Plus the Yakama's go up and kill 30-40 bulls themselves. So now we've only recruited 2-12 bulls for the year. Then if you add poachers into the mix you have a negative recruitment number.

If you want to look at 2008 where there were only 43 spikes. If you plug in all the numbers you come to a recruitment of negative 20-30 bulls without counting poaching. If you do this over a period of ten years which has happened then you can see where you can quickly go from 391 bulls to 85 in 7 years.

And if it was permit only you could control the amount of bulls killed. You could scientifically manage the amount of permits to control the bull to cow ratio and get it back where it's supposed to be. And as far as the Yakama's go: I hate it just as much as any of you do. But..... We kill 10 times more bulls than they do so we don't have a leg to stand on at the moment.
Title: Re: Biology Paper Poll: Look at my post for the question
Post by: Special T on March 18, 2010, 10:35:35 AM: You mean the heard woudl actually be managed? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Biology Paper Poll: Look at my post for the question
Post by: colockumelk on March 19, 2010, 09:17:24 AM: Sweet I only need 17 more and then I'll have enough. I'd like 75 but I guess 50 will do. Thankyou for those that have voted already. For those that havn't please let your voice be heard. VOTE, VOTE, VOTE!!!!
Title: Re: Biology Paper Poll: Look at my post for the question
Post by: bonkellekter on March 20, 2010, 04:04:15 PM: Quote from: colockumelk on March 19, 2010, 09:17:24 AM
Sweet I only need 17 more and then I'll have enough. I'd like 75 but I guess 50 will do. Thankyou for those that have voted already. For those that havn't please let your voice be heard. VOTE, VOTE, VOTE!!!!

Vote cast - looks like I am on board with the vast majority
Title: Re: Biology Paper Poll: Look at my post for the question
Post by: colockumelk on March 22, 2010, 08:16:37 AM: thanks bonekellekter
Title: Re: Biology Paper Poll: Look at my post for the question
Post by: bearpaw on March 22, 2010, 08:35:35 AM: would vote again to help you out if I could.... :chuckle:
Title: Re: Biology Paper Poll: Look at my post for the question
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 22, 2010, 11:07:50 AM: Bearpaw i really wish that more people thought as you do...... Signature says it all

Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights and choices. If we support all user groups, we'll all quit losing our opportunities! "United We Stand, Divided We Will Fall!"
Title: Re: Biology Paper Poll: Look at my post for the question
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on March 22, 2010, 11:56:41 AM: voted! Tag only