Post by: bobcat on March 18, 2010, 10:34:25 AM
Post by: Curly on March 18, 2010, 11:07:37 AM
Post by: Bob33 on March 18, 2010, 11:10:38 AM
My letter to the commission asked them to vote against the proposal until the vendor (Outdoor Central) can figure out how to design the software with a way for us to check a box telling them what category we want our accumulated points to be placed (instead of placing the points in all categories).That means we won't see this until 2015. Good job! :chuckle:
Post by: Curly on March 18, 2010, 11:14:46 AM
I don't have much hope that they will even listen. But at least I've let them know how I feel.
OC as a vendor is another topic altogether.........I don't like the idea of using out of state vendors.......seems like someone in this state could have done this and kept the money in state..... :dunno: (At least OC is not in China or India.......)
Post by: Bob33 on March 18, 2010, 11:16:22 AM
I don't have much hope that they will even listen. But at least I've let them know how I feel.Actually I have good reason to believe they are hearing from a significant number of constituents. Don't give up hope.
Post by: winston2789 on March 18, 2010, 12:10:09 PM
Post by: Curly on March 18, 2010, 12:22:20 PM
Would it really be that hard for them to add a box to check for which category you want your points to go for??????? :dunno:
I don't think so, but I asked that exact question to WDFW and they said it would be too complex......
Post by: winston2789 on March 20, 2010, 01:16:38 PM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 21, 2010, 11:52:25 AM
We haven't got many letters sent by the looks of the poll.......
I'm very sure that they got at least 6 letters that are not in the poll from emails to my contact list.
Post by: winston2789 on March 21, 2010, 03:38:54 PM
Post by: bbarnes on March 21, 2010, 10:12:17 PM
Post by: Bob33 on March 22, 2010, 08:46:04 AM
Dave Ware has answered that question: "we planned to stick with our current SOP which says you must have a specific reason to return a permit and get points reinstated: application error, illness, deployment, etc."
Here are my questions to this plan:
1. How does WDFW plan to increase revenues by selling more applications, if applicants will be penalized for drawing two tags?
2. What happens if an applicant draws two tags and does not return one? How will WDFW know? Will they contact the applicant? How would an enforcement officer know that a person is hunting with a second tag?
3. If the tag is returned for a hunt that has a very low quota or is a premiere hunt (Desert A deer, for example), what happens to the unused tag? Will the department implement alternates for deer and elk like they do for the OIL tags? Will there be a second draw?
4. What provisions have been made with Outdoor Central to acccommodate return of tags? What testing has been done?
Post by: provider on March 22, 2010, 08:57:37 AM
We're not drawing "tags"... we're drawing permits to utilize the one tag in your pocket. Of course, unless it's a "2nd tag"... but you get the idea.
Post by: bobcat on March 22, 2010, 09:05:18 AM
Quote
If an applicant makes a mistake, applies for the wrong hunt,
and is successfully drawn, the special hunting season permit can be
returned to the department of fish and wildlife Olympia headquarters
before the opening day of the special hunting season((or the openingThe
day of the general hunting season, whichever comes first)).
applicant's points will be restored to the level prior to the permit
drawing.
So basically if you draw more than one permit for a species and you only want to use one of them, you can lie and say you made a mistake in applying for that permit, and have your points restored.
But being that they are not "tags," you are free to use as many permits as you draw. Of course you still only have the one tag to use so once you harvest an animal you are done.
Post by: Bob33 on March 22, 2010, 09:16:00 AM
Post by: Curly on March 22, 2010, 09:32:18 AM
So if you draw an antlered and an antlerless permit, you can hunt for both, but only harvest one?
Yep.
Post by: bobcat on March 22, 2010, 09:39:17 AM
So if you draw an antlered and an antlerless permit, you can hunt for both, but only harvest one?
Dumb, isn't it? If they're going to let people put in for multiple categories for the same species, the drawing should be set up in a way so that if a person draws one permit they're automatically disqualified for any more permits for that same species.
I know what the WDFW would say to that... it's too complicated. Just like it would be too complicated to allow people to CHOOSE which category they want their points to go into, rather than putting points into ALL categories.
I can't count the number of things that are wrong with this proposal.
Post by: bobcat on March 22, 2010, 09:46:46 AM
Post by: rackattack on March 22, 2010, 10:16:27 AM
Post by: Bob33 on March 22, 2010, 10:35:25 AM
I'm looking forward to the 2 choice system for quality hunts, because this will increase my odds.Can you please explain why you believe that?
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 22, 2010, 10:47:34 AM
I'm looking forward to the 2 choice system for quality hunts, because this will increase my odds.Can you please explain why you believe that?
I would like to hear that answer too. I have 14 points Squared =196 Now lets throw in 1500 meat( Cow)hunters with 2 points squared= 6000...... now which number has the better chance of the ball falling into?
Post by: rackattack on March 22, 2010, 10:58:17 AM
Let's look at what I typically put if for, and they all fall as quality hunts under this proposal. Usually, I list Nooksack, Margaret, Mudflow, Toutle as my four choice. These are perhaps the four most sought after tags on the westside, but you can substitute eastside hunt if that's what you apply for. With the new proposal if everyone has to pick 2 hunts instead of 4, then 2 hunts get left out. Same number of people applying, but their names are now gone from two of these hunts. Now if I had to guess, most people will still put Margaret down as a choice, just because that's what everyone usually does. If I put Nooksack and Toutle down as my choices my odds just increased on one of those hunts because everyone else has Margaret listed as one of their hunts. The biggest question will be how people choose their hunts. I think the rifle guys will see the greatest increase in odds, just because of more choices with all the rut tags.I'm looking forward to the 2 choice system for quality hunts, because this will increase my odds.Can you please explain why you believe that?
Post by: bobcat on March 22, 2010, 11:00:27 AM
Elkaholic, The scenario you posted above I am not sure is quite correct. Where do the additional "meat hunters" come from? I understand your thinking, but I have been predominantly applying for cow permits the last few years, but I will always throw in a good bull hunt as a first and maybe a second choice, ahead of my cow permits. So I'm just not sure if the "quality" permits will get that many more applicants. They probably will though, just due to the fact that they are now calling them "quality" permits. That should be enough to inspire many to apply for them who had not before.
Post by: Bob33 on March 22, 2010, 11:01:03 AM
Today, most of the quality permits are drawn as a first or second choice. Take 2009. Desert A Deer is one of the hardest tags to draw. There are 4972 applicant choices for 15 permits. Of the 15 that drew, 13 had it listed as their first choice, and 2 had it listed as their second choice. None had it listed as a 3rd or 4th choice.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/results/deer.html (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/results/deer.html)
Elk in 2009. Dayton A offered 21 permits and their were 1677 applicant choices. Of the 21 that drew, 19 had it listed as a first or second choice.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/results/elk.html (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/results/elk.html)
The typical applicant applies for the hunts he wants the most as his first or second choice.
With a change to two choices only for quality hunts, the vast majority of individuals that have been applying for these hunts will continue to apply. You may lose a few that applied for the quality hunts as a third or fourth choice, but probably less than ten percent at most. In addition, the quality draw pools will now also have individuals that previously applied only for antlerless hunts. They may only have five points or less, but they will dilute the odds of the quality pool.
That's the way I predict it will go: harder, not easier odds for the quality tags.
Post by: Bob33 on March 24, 2010, 09:08:24 AM
http://sportsyakima.com/2010/03/many-hunters-fear-the-worst-if-proposed-tag-system-takes-off/ (http://sportsyakima.com/2010/03/many-hunters-fear-the-worst-if-proposed-tag-system-takes-off/)
This article was written because of information provided in this post that was forwarded to the Yakima Herald.
Keep the heat up!
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 24, 2010, 10:26:36 AM
Post by: bobcat on March 24, 2010, 10:51:30 AM
Post by: Bob33 on March 24, 2010, 11:05:27 AM
(I emailed Rob the following.)
Rob, thank you for publishing the article in the Yakima Herald about the proposed changes to elk and deer permitting in Washington state.
Incorrect dates are listed for the Commission meeting. The meeting will be held in Leavenworth on April 9 and 10, not April 3 and 4 as noted in the article. The meeting is open to the public.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/do/newreal/release.php?id=mar1510b (http://wdfw.wa.gov/do/newreal/release.php?id=mar1510b)
Also, please encourage readers to contact the Commission before the meeting in order to express their opinion about the proposed changes. This is a major change that will have significant impacts on big game hunting in Washington for many years. Many are concerned that the impacts will be adverse and not positive.
The Commission may be emailed at commission@dfw.wa.gov
Letters to the Commission should be addressed to:
Fish and Wildlife Commission
600 Capitol Way N.
Olympia, WA 98501-1091
Thank you.